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GTL Scam - Posting Vs Sniping


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Hello,

 

Could someone from staff clarify why are these two considered so different that one gets BANNED ?

 

How is it fair that Snipers are legit, while taking advantage of other people's mistakes on GTL, but the reverse, putting up overpriced items on GTL is considered a scam (is it?) and bannable?

 

I mean, I don't judge either, nor do I practice one or the other, but it just seems a bit unfair. The only difference I see is that Snipers have to spend a lot more time in there? Still, I wouldn't say that's enough to have such a double standard.

 

Thanks.

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Snipers are taking advantage of mistakes that are already happening, and if you don't buy it, someone else will. It isn't fair to punish players for this as the mistake was entirely the seller's.

 

Repeatedly posting misleading listings until someone falls for it is actively trying to cause mistakes to happen, and it works, with the scammer making a large amount of profit in the process. To be clear, we only permanently ban for this when it's obviously intentional and usually pursue more lenient options first.

 

The two aren't really comparable. We'll be taking steps to make this sort of scam less viable in future updates though.

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4 minutes ago, Rache said:

Snipers are taking advantage of mistakes that are already happening, and if you don't buy it, someone else will. It isn't fair to punish players for this as the mistake was entirely the seller's.

 

Repeatedly posting misleading listings until someone falls for it is actively trying to cause mistakes to happen, and it works, with the scammer making a large amount of profit in the process. To be clear, we only permanently ban for this when it's obviously intentional and usually pursue more lenient options first.

What's the difference between someone actively looking for other's mistakes and someone actively trying to make those people make mistakes? The intentions, which I believe are in check here, are exactly the same: profit on other people's mistakes.

 

7 minutes ago, Rache said:

We'll be taking steps to make this sort of scam less viable in future updates though.

Nice to read ! 🙂

 

And thank you for your answer.

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Just now, YoYoo said:

What's the difference between someone actively looking for other's mistakes and someone actively trying to make those people make mistakes? The intentions, which I believe are in check here, are exactly the same: profit on other people's mistakes.

 

Nice to read ! 🙂

 

And thank you for your answer.

While both are profiting from the mistakes of others, sniping is purely opportunistic and the fault isn't with the buyer at all. It's unreasonable to expect hundreds of players refreshing the GTL not to buy something underpriced as soon as they see it.

 

As mentioned above, posting misleading listings is fishing for people to make mistakes that otherwise wouldn't be happening. The sorts of sales we punish for are the blatantly dishonest ones that aim to trick buyers into paying more than they think they are. Although buyers can choose not to buy, they're trying to snipe the listing and are competing with every other player trying to snipe, so they're encouraged to click yes as quickly as they can after glancing at what looks like a great price, but missing the extra 0. While the buyer isn't without fault here, they've done exactly what the seller was trying to bait them into doing.

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6 minutes ago, YoYoo said:

What's the difference between someone actively looking for other's mistakes and someone actively trying to make those people make mistakes? The intentions, which I believe are in check here, are exactly the same: profit on other people's mistakes.

 

Nice to read ! 🙂

 

And thank you for your answer.

Do you think picking up 100 dollars that fell on the ground and stealing 100 dollars from someone's pocket while they arent looking are the same? In both you are trying to profit off other people's mistakes but I think most people would agree the latter is way worse.

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2 minutes ago, Juaske said:

Do you think picking up 100 dollars that fell on the ground and stealing 100 dollars from someone's pocket while they arent looking are the same? In both you are trying to profit off other people's mistakes but I think most people would agree the latter is way worse.

That comparison is just wrong sir. 

 

If the persons CHOOSES (GTL) to throw 100 dollars on the ground, by mistake, and someone picks it up VS. Someone that AGREES (GTL)  that the other person behind steals from him. He AGREES very quickly, by mistake, but agrees. This would be your comparison with what actually happens in-game.

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8 minutes ago, Rache said:

While both are profiting from the mistakes of others, sniping is purely opportunistic and the fault isn't with the buyer at all. It's unreasonable to expect hundreds of players refreshing the GTL not to buy something underpriced as soon as they see it.

 

As mentioned above, posting misleading listings is fishing for people to make mistakes that otherwise wouldn't be happening. The sorts of sales we punish for are the blatantly dishonest ones that aim to trick buyers into paying more than they think they are. Although buyers can choose not to buy, they're trying to snipe the listing and are competing with every other player trying to snipe, so they're encouraged to click yes as quickly as they can after glancing at what looks like a great price, but missing the extra 0. While the buyer isn't without fault here, they've done exactly what the seller was trying to bait them into doing.

Yes, I understand you point of view. I still think none should be at fault, since it is a free market but well...

 

I just want to state one more thing.

 

I've read somewhere that you were thinking about conditioning the GTL, so that people won't be able to list over priced or under priced items and mons. Don't know if this is true but that takes away freedom from a free market which I don't support. You could easily solve this by just taking away the option "Sort by New Listings". Harder to snipe, and therefore, less overpriced listings.

 

Thanks for reading. 

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We all know my stance on this issue.

 

We all also know that I sit here going "wtf? how is this a scam but actually scamming is not a scam? one benefits their friends, the other didn't".

 

What about "fair trade" with lies and deception to gain the trust of and convince others to sell you their items/pokes for very cheap prices?

 

Tricking a greedy sniper on GTL who didn't read is bad, but outright scamming a new player is fully acceptable.

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8 minutes ago, Paul said:

so you do admit they are actively tricking people into buying their items, this is a good first step 

Hello there,

 

I'm sorry but there isn't room for tricking in a Market like GTL. You put up A for the price of X. The buyer buys A for the price of X. No tricking. Bad intentions? Yes. Tricking, Scam, Wrong Doings? Simply no. 

 

Tricking is when you convince someone that something costs Y but in reality it costs X. Or if you say you gonna sell X for Y and the you try to sell A for Y.

 

If we gonna debate something, let us be logical and practical.

 

 

Edited by YoYoo
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5 minutes ago, Paul said:

so you do admit they are actively tricking people into buying their items, this is a good first step 

I love how everyone completely ignores the fact that I mention that actual scamming is completely ignored, because it benefits them.

 

Can you read? It might be a challenge for you. Were you greedy and sniped 100RP for 2m because you were too greedy and didn't read? The trick was them seeing if you were foolish, greedy, and quite frankly dumb enough to buy something without reading. It worked.

 

Is this the same greed that causes people to actually scam noobs through lies and deception? But this is acceptable, supported, and will not be regulated since it benefits the veteran players.

 

The hypocrisy of this community is fucking pathetic.

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33 minutes ago, YoYoo said:

That comparison is just wrong sir. 

 

If the persons CHOOSES (GTL) to throw 100 dollars on the ground, by mistake, and someone picks it up VS. Someone that AGREES (GTL)  that the other person behind steals from him. He AGREES very quickly, by mistake, but agrees. This would be your comparison with what actually happens in-game.

My point is that two actions having the same intent doesnt mean they're equally bad which was your response to Rache, for which the analogy is valid

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4 minutes ago, EssDeeCee said:

I mention that actual scamming is completely ignored, because it benefits them.

Bad thing #1 being unmoderated doesn't mean bad thing #2 should also go unmoderated, what kind of logic is this?

 

 

8 minutes ago, EssDeeCee said:

Were you greedy and sniped 100RP for 2m because you were too greedy and didn't read?

What makes the buyer any more greedy than the seller? Actively over-pricing items to take advantage of people seems pretty greedy to me, no? Also, why does someone's level of greed determine whether it's okay to trick them or not? I just have a lot of questions about your very vocal take on this subject.

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2 minutes ago, Juaske said:

My point is that two actions having the same intent doesnt mean they're equally bad which was your response to Rache, for which the analogy is valid

My response supports that two actions, with the same intent, AND done the same way by legally accepted means, are equally bad, or in this case and according to my opinion, equally neutral. Your point shows us a completely different scenario that, even if the same intent is do get 100 Dollars, those actions are completely different, one of them being illegal. Whereas sniping and posting are the same action: Selling or Buying in a Free Market.

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1 minute ago, YoYoo said:

My response supports that two actions, with the same intent, AND done the same way by legally accepted means, are equally bad, or in this case and according to my opinion, equally neutral. Your point shows us a completely different scenario that, even if the same intent is do get 100 Dollars, those actions are completely different, one of them being illegal. Whereas sniping and posting are the same action: Selling or Buying in a Free Market.

Everything you post is just dumber and dumber i have no idea how tf you do it holy shit, you dont understand how analogies work, you dont understand what a free market is, you dont understand what constitutes tricking someone and yet you're confidently talking about all of them , you're a fucking moron

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3 minutes ago, Paul said:

 what kind of logic is this?

 

I know right? I've been trying to figure it out too. You should ask the staff why they don't enforce using actual lies and deception to scam noobs out of shinies and items, not me. Should probably ask a large large majority of the community as well why this is acceptable to "get yourself a good deal". Should probably teammates. Definitely some of your teammates.

 

Once we clear up why actual scamming is supported by the staff and community, we can address other things.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Juaske said:

Everything you post is just dumber and dumber i have no idea how tf you do it holy shit, you dont understand how analogies work, you dont understand what a free market is, you dont understand what constitutes tricking someone and yet you're confidently talking about all of them , you're a fucking moron

Am I talking with a child? Why don't you show me your point of view and refute my arguments instead of this reply where you just state that I don't know shit?

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This thread literally hurts my brain. 

Looking at it this way, if I accidentally list my poke/item for way undervalued nobody is at fault for this except me.  I've actually done this before listing a shiny magikarp for 10% of the actual cost.  It sucks, but users fault for drinking too much before tryna sell something on GTL, no fault for someone seeing it and buying it as quickly as they can.  Like Rache said, if they didn't someone else would, instantly.  Welcome to the free market bby

If user actively tries to deceive other players by listing an item worth 100000 for 1000000 or w/e, they're actively trying to trick other players, therefor malicious intent on the sellers behalf.  Personally I still don't believe this should be a serious bannable offense, because stupid mistakes are punished with stupid consequences, but I don't make the rules nor do I care since I'm more cautious with my money than that. 

Now, before this thread gets removed for being a hazard to peoples brain health, I'd like to ask something:  Is buying an item with a price below one of the ones you're selling as a method of combating those dudes who list it for 1 yen lower than yours a bannable offense?  Cuz if so I need to know rn lol
Edit:  Question should also include buying the lowest price item, if said item has a significant price difference between the 2nd lowest price, and re-listing for higher price immediately. 

Edited by DaftKitteh
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And lets just all agree here.

 

All these threads, and all of this nonsense could've been avoided if the devs just got off their asses and listened to the community months ago when people suggested to change the color of the 100RP and 1,000RP vouchers because it was too similar.

 

Instead, they went on to talk down to the community, be complete narcissists, describe economics to us like we're children, but completely fuck it up using terms for medical subjects/trials/experiments and actually backed themselves into a corner before shutting the thread, and then finally had to implement a cap to the price of the 100RP voucher.

 

But coming from people who support Moemon, it's obvious they make questionable decisions in their life.

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6 minutes ago, EssDeeCee said:

All these threads, and all of this nonsense could've been avoided if the devs just got off their asses and listened to the community months ago when people suggested to change the color of the 100RP and 1,000RP vouchers because it was too similar.

This issue happens with a lot more items than the RP voucher. And we're actively taking steps to prevent it both already on live and in next update.

 

This thread's not helping anything, so going to end it here.

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