Vexiane Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) Hi, i had a few questions about this problematic pokemon. I started playing pokeMMO in 2013, and by the time i started the game, and discovered you can check the tiers of the pokemon with the pokedex menu, I always wondered : Why is dugtrio in uber ? After learning more about the game, I clearly understood that his arena trap abilty, combined with a strong speed+atk makes it a huge revenge killer, for example on jolteon, or magnezone (that wasn't available at the time, but you see the idea) So i had a few questions : -Is arena trap working on flying/levitating pokemons ? If not then you technically, you may be carefull about not getting trapped, like finish low HP mons with flyers ( I guess ? ) -Is Dugtrio technically playable in OU ? I heard about the fact that the devs reduced his attack, or his speed (it's actually 125 base speed) So he might not OHKO anything he trapped, but still, it's a strong trapper, and suicide lead with stealth rocks/focus sash. -Why is he available in UU ? I mean, this thing hits hard with earthquake, it has acces to stone edge for flyers, reversal with sash is a great synergie and sucker punch is an annoying move. So yeah, what's the deal with that pokémon, what is the situation of this pokemon in the actual metagame ? What will happen if i decide to put him in one of my OU team ? I think a lot of discussions had been around with this pokémon so i wanna know if someone may enlighten me. Thanks for reading/answering Edited September 12, 2021 by Vexiane Link to comment
Vexiane Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 And sorry in advance if my english is bad Link to comment
razimove Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Vexiane said: Why is dugtrio in uber ? on non pokemmo tiers, is usually due to his ability that doens't promote a healthy metagame due to lack of counters. 4 hours ago, Vexiane said: -Is arena trap working on flying/levitating pokemons ? If not then you technically, you may be carefull about not getting trapped, like finish low HP mons with flyers ( I guess ? ) lol yes, when the opponent sacrifices some pokemon to safely bring him and revenge kill you, you're so careful damn. 4 hours ago, Vexiane said: -Is Dugtrio technically playable in OU ? check pokedex, should answer you. 4 hours ago, Vexiane said: -Why is he available in NU ? FTFY usages, lack of people showcasing his potential, and a half dead tier council that still have weight on the decisions. Link to comment
Vexiane Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 (edited) Hey there, Thanks for the answer ! I may reformulate my questions into one : How did they managed to nerf him down in NU ? Is he THAT bad RN ? If it's the dugtrio that I know, it's clearly a mistake to classify him in this tier. i'm talking about this set Dugtrio @ Focus Sash Ability: Arena Trap EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Reversal - Earthquake - Stealth Rock - Stone Edge thanks again ! Edit : Also, talking about trappers in general, what about gothitelle and wobbufet ? How did they managed to also nerf them so that they are untiered ? I really don't understand. Edited September 12, 2021 by Vexiane Link to comment
Havsha Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, Vexiane said: Hey there, Thanks for the answer ! I may reformulate my questions into one : How did they managed to nerf him down in NU ? Is he THAT bad RN ? If it's the dugtrio that I know, it's clearly a mistake to classify him in this tier. i'm talking about this set Dugtrio @ Focus Sash Ability: Arena Trap EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - Reversal - Earthquake - Stealth Rock - Stone Edge thanks again ! Edit : Also, talking about trappers in general, what about gothitelle and wobbufet ? How did they managed to also nerf them so that they are untiered ? I really don't understand. For Gothitelle it doesnt have access to shadow tag currently as its a hidden ability. But in general the devs have nerfed shadow tag by making it so that the pokemon is only trapped for like 3 turns before the ability wears off. Currenlty Dugtrio is NU because its atk was never buffed to base 100 in MMO, so not as many people see it as a viable option in the higher tiers. Whilst I agree that it is still problematic due to how it can support a team by targetting down specific pokemon (without room four counterplay) the TC have yet to make such a decision. Link to comment
Vexiane Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 oh, thank you very much for the answer, i get it now. Yeah since they lowered his atk stat he isn't as problematic as in the main game before Arena Trap ban, but yeah, still problematic because he exists. To me, his stats should be reverted and put back to Ubers, in order for him to be playable in PVE, you aren't supposed to care about an unhealthy PVE metagame (I guess ?) Link to comment
Gruul Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) There will be a formal vote at the end of the month for a Dugtrio ban but Idk how the odds are it will be banned. (Source: page 2 September Movement discussion) And I guess if so, then only for NU but I'm not that into banning politics. Edited September 13, 2021 by Gruul Link to comment
Mkns1070 Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 For me dugtrio is viable in all tier he is, arena trap dugtrio is something you can use in OU to trap stuff like magnezone/ttar/jolt or in UU for heracross/gigalith for exemple. he is NU only by usage and you can still use it in any tier tbh Quinn010, Luke and DoubleJ 3 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Thanks for your questions. Like @Mkns1070 I too agree that Dugtrio is viable in all tiers, we just see less usage in PokeMMO because it is a high risk/high reward Pokemon that was stripped of the Gen 7 Attack buff (80-->100) by our Tier Council when it was deemed a little "too good." Currently, Dugtrio struggles to remove threats it is designed to kill without its boosted attack. For instance: 252 Atk Dugtrio Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 292-344 (80.6 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 Atk Dugtrio Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 214-252 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252 Atk Sand Force Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (76.7 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock Without a guaranteed kill, Dugtrio wasn't as "safe" an option as people wanted. With a Pokemon as uncompetitive as this one, you really want to know that your going to net that kill from the get go. Focus Sash can also be quite unreliable given hazards and no safe switches, and once Dugtrio does get a kill, there are a number of OU Pokemon ready to take advantage of its weak attack making for a loss of momentum. In the UU tier, we see fewer Pokemon that are readily trapped by Dugtrio, and if they are, most are bulky enough to survive a hit and kill in return. 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 138-164 (72.2 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 Atk Sand Force Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith in Sand: 132-156 (68.7 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery So it's a similar situation, but even more dramatic given so few mons that it can kill. And finally, Dugtrio has settled in the bottom tier of PokeMMO, Neverused. With a usage rate of ~12% and a win percentage of 52%, many view it as broken and/or uncompetitive for the tier. It certainly restricts team building even without having much usage. Its mere presence makes players reconsider using previously viable mons like Drapion, Magmortar, Manectric, Toxicroak, Magneton, Stunkfisk, among others. We even see a swiss army knife like Blaziken be forced to use Choice Scarf on nearly 80% of sets just to avoid being sniped by Dugtrio. The Tier Council will be voting later this month to determine if Dugtrio should be banned to Borderline 2, as last season we had a split decision leaving it in NU for the time being. tl;dr Dugtrio could be good, but its attack stat nerf is holding it back from making any impact in Overused, essentially reducing its "splash-ability." Underused has very few Pokemon susceptible to Dugtrio, and Neverused is feeling the strain of a fast trapper with many thinking it should be banned. Quinn010 and Kamowanthere 2 Link to comment
Vexiane Posted September 14, 2021 Author Share Posted September 14, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, DoubleJ said: And finally, Dugtrio has settled in the bottom tier of PokeMMO, Neverused. With a usage rate of ~12% and a win percentage of 52%, many view it as broken and/or uncompetitive for the tier. It certainly restricts team building even without having much usage. Its mere presence makes players reconsider using previously viable mons like Drapion, Magmortar, Manectric, Toxicroak, Magneton, Stunkfisk, among others. We even see a swiss army knife like Blaziken be forced to use Choice Scarf on nearly 80% of sets just to avoid being sniped by Dugtrio. The Tier Council will be voting later this month to determine if Dugtrio should be banned to Borderline 2, as last season we had a split decision leaving it in NU for the time being. tl;dr Dugtrio could be good, but its attack stat nerf is holding it back from making any impact in Overused, essentially reducing its "splash-ability." Underused has very few Pokemon susceptible to Dugtrio, and Neverused is feeling the strain of a fast trapper with many thinking it should be banned. Yeah that's why i think he should remain in uber (or borderline 2 ? idk, just banned) Even if you guys do what you can for him to be playable, he's just either not as effective as he should be, so it's frustrating, or he have the same efficiency as a 100 atk dugtrio, with 80 atk in NU. May I also ask a question or do I have to make another topic for it ? It's about Sand veil Garchomp, The clauses says that "Moves and abilities" are banned, so why is Sand veil actually working in OU ? maybe you guys don't want a talentless Chomp in OU, but 42,2% usage is kinda insane right now. I got surprised yesterday by missing an earthquake with my hippo on a low HP chomp and ended up losing the game (and also a 4 winstreak) so I got a little frustrated. Are you guys are the council about to suspect test him or something ? Edited September 14, 2021 by Vexiane Quinn010 1 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted September 14, 2021 Share Posted September 14, 2021 @Vexiane that's just text that has yet to be updated. We previously had banned evasion based abilities, but reintroduced them some time ago. You can mention this in the "quick suggestions" topic to be updated. Link to comment
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