Jump to content

September-Movement Discussion Thread


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Munya said:

It wasn't, it also broke the TC agreement every member that signs up agrees to when they agree to join the TC. That said, drop the madara topic, if you want to discuss policy, I'm all ears.

Gonna bring up a bit of the Madara post back, regarding Cursed Body. It's not even a complaint solely about Gengar like you seemingly assumed, I've seen people forsake Water Absorb on Jellicent just to use Cursed Body in order to fish for disables in order to set up later with something else.

Choice users have a 30% chance of becoming set up bait or just being forced to struggle. Set up Pokemon that may have a win assured due to the win conditions being met may be blocked by Cursed Body blocking an essential move in order to continue the sweep essentially forcing a momentum dump that can swing the entire match around. Gengar may be the most annoying abuser due to it already being a fairly annoying Pokemon to deal with alongside also having gained its own set up move but it's definitely not limited to it alone.

Link to comment

Looked at the tiering policy thread, it is indeed quite outdated and has been band aided over before by myself and probably others, should have an update.  Something I have to work on with the devs though.  


I'd say the characteristics of an uber thing is still accurate, just how they are handled is done differently.  And only pertaining to the actual Ubers tier, not BL/BL2.  If something were to become Uber it is the devs desire that all pokemon be useable in some form in the 3 singles tiers. so we look at ways to resolve it being in Ubers.  But if something is being pushed to BL2 for instance, it is still useable in UU which is one of the singles formats so there is no need to address anything with it to make it usable.

Spoiler

Why was it not openly discussed when the issue was first raised nearly a month ago by a TC member? I only saw 2 members publicly comment about it. Except another post which was removed because it said stuff which you didn't like in it.

It was brought up at the end of the last month and I am not comfortable making a ban going into the final month of a season, so I asked them to hold off on making any decisions and very specifically asked them to pay attention to p2/duggy for the duration of this month so we could have a hopefully more informed discussion on the subject.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

Razor Fang, Quick Claw, Focus Band, and King's Rock will now broadcast their presence when swapping in
hehe they finally fixed kingsrock ty @Munya

baby steps.

 

I am fine with cursed body being discussed if it is indeed a problem, but I still think its okay for me to be surprised by the issue especially considering comments and reactions to that change when it was done(changing it from levitate to cursed body, seemed like a huge downgrade going off of every bodies assumptions, my own included, so yes, I am surprised that people are finding it an issue, I did not mean for that to be a attack on anybody, and if it was perceived as such, I apologize).

 

Give me a bit I may respond to more, this is all very hectic and my eyes/concentration are failing me.

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Munya said:

Looked at the tiering policy thread, it is indeed quite outdated and has been band aided over before by myself and probably others, should have an update.  Something I have to work on with the devs though.  


I'd say the characteristics of an uber thing is still accurate, just how they are handled is done differently.  And only pertaining to the actual Ubers tier, not BL/BL2.  If something were to become Uber it is the devs desire that all pokemon be useable in some form in the 3 singles tiers. so we look at ways to resolve it being in Ubers.  But if something is being pushed to BL2 for instance, it is still useable in UU which is one of the singles formats so there is no need to address anything with it to make it usable.

When the policy gets updated to reflect all of that, please let us know so we can discuss it (especially the nerf policy in OU). 

Link to comment

Cursed Body is not broken, Suigin simply is a hater.

 

We've had it in UU for years on Jellicent and it never broke the tier in any way

If you hate no counterplay stuff don't play Pokemon that has freeze, paralysis side effects on offensive moves as well as an unfair amount of misses, crits, lowrolls and more. PLUS both mons that currently use Cursed Body lost a great amount of teambuilding effectiveness in losing their respective immunities for it. (Not that Gengar asked for it but y'know)

You got no counterplays against ALL these either, including getting flame bodied or statik'd with just as many odds Cursed Body has. If you're locked on a move, then it's up to you, don't say there's no counterplay, start by not relying on choice items then. Idk I don't really care and didn't want to post this, but I can't believe people are crying for a random average ability now when Dugtrio is literally allowed in NU. 

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Cursed Body is not broken, Suigin simply is a hater.

 

We've had it in UU for years on Jellicent and it never broke the tier in any way

If you hate no counterplay stuff don't play Pokemon that has freeze, paralysis side effects on offensive moves as well as an unfair amount of misses, crits, lowrolls and more. PLUS both mons that currently use Cursed Body lost a great amount of teambuilding effectiveness in losing their respective immunities for it. (Not that Gengar asked for it but y'know)

You got no counterplays against ALL these either, including getting flame bodied or statik'd with just as many odds Cursed Body has. If you're locked on a move, then it's up to you, don't say there's no counterplay, start by not relying on choice items then. Idk I don't really care and didn't want to post this, but I can't believe people are crying for a random average ability now when Dugtrio is literally allowed in NU. 

The problem with dugtrio is literally that theres no counterplay to arena trap... but I guess thats different to you?

Link to comment

I want to start this discussion early:

 

What are people's thoughts about Alakazam in NU?

On first glance, they share similar stats to Espeon, which can already be a troublesome Pokemon in the tier (life orb set can deal serious damage to a lot of Pokemon with its varied coverage moves, but does get pressured by Sucker Punch and/or Pursuit Absol and Houndoom)

 

(The following Pokemon are both 3x31 2x30 with 6 HP, 252 SP ATK, 252 SPEED and Timid nature)

 

unknown.png

 

However, the main difference with Alakazam is that it has access to Substitute, bypassing Sucker Punch, and worst case scenario, can use a Colbur Berry if it's scared of Pursuit (assuming it does face a Dark type 1v1). Alongside this, it also has access to Nasty Plot, with its incredibly high speed and special attack is capable of decimating a lot of the tier bar scarf Pokemon.

 

Alakazam also has access to a wider movepool compared to Espeon, for example Focus Blast, which can deal with Pokemon like Steelix, Escavalier and Clefable which Espeon was unable to.

 

If people provide me with 'Dugtrio' as the answer to dealing with Alakazam, it then emphasises mine and other people's statement that this Pokemon has had a negative influence in the tier and is deemed too unhealthy.

 

My other question follows to this - why would Alakazam be allowed in the tier when Roserade is likely to still be banned? 

 

I'll expand on my thoughts when October's discussion thread is opened, but curious to hear early thoughts about this Pokemon.

 

As for Lanturn, I have no issues whatsoever.

Edited by Imperial
Link to comment
19 minutes ago, TohnR said:

We've had it in UU for years on Jellicent and it never broke the tier in any way

Ok I'm talking about OU though, different tier, different mons, set up options are different.

 

Quote

If you hate no counterplay stuff don't play Pokemon that has

e47.png

Quote

freeze

10% rate at best, 1 type immune to it, there's several moves that allow instant thawing out, including the infamous Scald.

Quote

paralysis side effects on offensive moves

2 Pokemon types immune to them at minimum (Ground types for Discharge, Ghost for Body Slam).

Quote

as well as an unfair amount of misses

Misses are on the user for picking said move to use, they are not imposed on by the opponent unless there's an evasion raise involved (The only ones allowed are Snow Cloak and Sand Veil which should also be removed).

Quote

crits, lowrolls and more.

Smaller chance of them happening, attached to all moves. What an asinine comparison.

 

Quote

PLUS both mons that currently use Cursed Body lost a great amount of teambuilding effectiveness in losing their respective immunities for it. (Not that Gengar asked for it but y'know)

They both more or less do the same stuff except they now add an extra layer of rng that can greatly change the game on a whim of the RNG seed. If Jellicent lost so much teambuilding effectiveness then why did it both rise a tier and have people willingly use Cursed Body on it?

 

Quote

You got no counterplays against ALL these either, including getting flame bodied or statik'd

Flame body and Static require contact.

 

Quote

If you're locked on a move, then it's up to you, don't say there's no counterplay, start by not relying on choice items then.

Mono attackers also suffer from this. Cursed Body affects everything, you 100% have to attack a Pokemon to defeat it. Sure depending on the matchup you can maybe toxic a Jellicent and stall it to death but not everything has the luxury of doing so.

Quote

Idk I don't really care and didn't want to post this

Don't post then. Specially if your post is bad. If you wanna focus on Duggy then all power to you, make another post complaining about it, don't sidetrack another discussion with your dogshit comparisons.

Link to comment
7 hours ago, Imperial said:

 

Alakazam also has access to a wider movepool compared to Espeon, for example Focus Blast, which can deal with Pokemon like Steelix, Escavalier and Clefable which Espeon was unable to.

 

 

While I agree with you that Zam looks strong, Espeon can deal with this Mons using a psyschock/hp ground/grassknot/battonpass set

 

This set at least was kinda standard some time ago. 

Link to comment

I want to comment on the hax item nerf. I think that decision is quite bad and reflects very poorly on the game.

 

Affecting all hax items with the same nerf makes little sense since they are so different. Focus Band and Quick Claw are very very very bad. They significantly increases your chances of losing when using these items and that's why these items are unviable on litteraly every single pokemon and in every single tier. No one uses them and the few that do are either too poor to buy better items or too dumb to realize how bad these items are. Focus Band and Quick Claw did not need to get nerfed with a warning message. That's overkill. If the objective of this nerf is for these terribly shitty and worthless hax items to remain playable, the nerf is a failure then because disabling the item entirely would make Focus Band and Quick Claw more viable then displaying to your opponent that you do not hold a Focus Sash, Choice Band, a berry, etc. Removing the unknown aspect of what item is being held is too much. These items hax once every 2625109 full moons, they did not need to get nerfed this way. Keeping them or removing them from the competitive scene entirely is way better than this warning message non sense.

King's Rock and Razor Fang are also terrible items, but they can be somewhat viable on Cloyster and really only Cloyster. The warning message for these hax items is not very effective, sure it's a nerf but the haxing effect of what makes the item problematic in the first place is not affected by this nerf at all. The best nerf for King's Rock was to simply take @RysPicz suggestion and removing the hax chances on multi hit moves, so that the flinch chance is a raw 10% on all moves.

Please change this hax item nerf to something more appropriate.

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, Munya said:

The discussion thread will go up sunday, the changes thread will be thursday. The seasonals will be happening at the same times as normal afaik, unfortunately in the case of the ones that happen during the new season, that hasn't been addressed yet.

 

Okay thanks for letting me know - I assumed they were starting this weekend because Team Tournament is happening tonight (Friday) and the OU / Doubles crown tours haven't been added to the system yet.

Edited by Imperial
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

@Munyacan you confirm lucario dropping with the current usage? iirc i saw you saying it will drop next time when it gets uu usage 

If it is below the usage cutoff yeah, bout to check in a moment.

9 minutes ago, Lvkee said:

@MunyaCan I double check that the tier shifts won't be put into place until the 10k RP tours for UU and NU respectively? iirc they usually were done like this in the past and it really sucked..

I really wish I could, this is a system problem one that hasn't been addressed yet.  I can't delay doing movements because it effects next months usage.  We need to move those tournaments to a sooner date it just hasn't happened yet.

Link to comment
  • Munya locked and unfeatured this topic
  • Munya unpinned this topic
  • Munya pinned this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.