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What is GTL Scamming?


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So hello there! The reason why I'm asking this very controversial question is because I've seen this photo circulating around social media networks (e.g. Discord and Facebook.) Now I'm quite intrigue as to what constitutes GTL Scam and what players should NOT do in order to avoid performing this recently (at least to my knowledge) surfacing violation.

 

First of all, I'd like to commend on this provision in the Code of Conduct: 237011980_565221571331996_8513226005896954743_n.jpeg.c2464bb600307c4beafc4418a34dd18c.jpeg

 

It is a clear provision that "Scamming" in general is not allowed. That, for sure, is very justifiable because players who are older in the game can easily exploit newer players by lying about the value. THIS type of scamming is a clear violation of the Code of Conduct.

 

However, in a platform like the Global Trade Link where there is no form of communication between buyer and seller, I find myself a skeptic as to how the mechanics are run in this kind of scamming. A clear definition of "GTL Scamming" is what I am asking for, if that is okay for the mods to define. I have asked other players in the game and I find their explanations insufficient because, first of all, the mechanics in a trading platform like GTL erases all means for a player to scam (at least to my view). There should be nothing wrong when a seller enlists an item in GTL according to how he/she/they values/value such item. That's simply business. Isn't it the buyer's fault if he/she/they purchase(s) an item that either below or above the standard pricing? If a buyer buys an item in a rush and not fully check if it is the specific item and specific pricing they were looking for, isn't that their fault? In my opinion, if we do not allow this kind of activity, that ruins the essence of GTL trade where we can enlist anything according to how we want. 

 

So again, I hope that a full and clear definition and an enumeration of instances can be defined in order for us to avoid what should be avoided in this game so we could rest in assurance that what we do is legal, safe, and fair. I'll keep an open mind. Thank you very much!

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26 minutes ago, iMarco said:

what we do is legal

Yes everything must be legal, just like the legal roms we're all using to play this 🙂

 

Anyway if player A wants to sell something for a specific price and player B buys that for the price player A requested, then that's it. Irrespective of the original value of product the trade is legally binding.

 

Example 1:

If player A sells a shiny on GTL for 10k even though it's worth 1m+, then that is their choice as it is an item they own. 

Player B who bought it simply made profit off a less informed player but this in no way counts as scamming. This is just ripping someone off, but still not a scam. 

 

Example 2:

In another case if player B told player A that your shiny is worth 10k and I will buy it for 10k and player A decides to sell it for the offered price, then that is again not a scam as player A agreed to the price he was offered. Just the way it is each player's individual responsibility to go through the Code of Conduct, similarly if a player is misinformed about the economy and makes stupid trade selling his stuff for lower price, then that is purely their fault / choice.

 

However if you tell someone you will buy something for 1m but while trading only give 100k and they don't pay attention, that's a scam.

Or if you promise you will return the item to them after some time, but then proceed ahead to not do it, then that is again a scam. Basically in any scenario where there is a breach of promise from one player's end that would result in a scam.

 

But as long as the desired outcome is something what both parties agreed on at the time of trading, that does not amount to scam.

 

As for being banned for 'GTL Scam'.

The only reason for bans is when you've broke the COC (did RMT or accessed another player's account, etc) and probably to hide your trade trail, you are now using GTL to get the products you desire from the other account.

 

For example, via hack or RMT player B now has player A's account.

Now if B wants to transfer money, he lists a potion or some other cheap item for 1m or so and player B buys it.

Then player A lists his valuables for super cheap and player A buys those.

 

This is the only scenario I can think of where it would on front be a legal trade via GTL but is actually part of a greater scam.

Would recommend to verify it all with staff team either way.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Akshit said:

As for being banned for 'GTL Scam'.

The only reason for bans is when you've broke the COC (did RMT or accessed another player's account, etc) and probably to hide your trade trail, you are now using GTL to get the products you desire from the other account.

 

For example, via hack or RMT player B now has player A's account.

Now if B wants to transfer money, he lists a potion or some other cheap item for 1m or so and player B buys it.

Then player A lists his valuables for super cheap and player A buys those.

 

This is the only scenario I can think of where it would on front be a legal trade via GTL but is actually part of a greater scam.

Would recommend to verify it all with staff team either way.

Now this would make total sense. I gotta say, that's a very sneaky way to do RMT. But shouldn't they just put "RMT" or "GTL RMT"? 

Edited by iMarco
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I got a 7-day ban for listing 100RP at the price of 1,000RP.  They have capped the amount that 100RP can be listed for to prevent this from happening in the future, although other more common items such as Leppas and Everstones are used in the same way, adding an extra 0 in hopes of someone making a mistake so you profit.

 

I disagree with this being scamming, but it's absolutely a shitty tactic that relies on GTL snipers either misclicking or misreading what they're buying, and I agree with them moderating it. I thought capping the amount these items could be listed for is a perfect solution, and 7 days seems excessive to me, but I'm not going to argue or complain about something that I'm guilty for, so it is what it is. 

Edited by Paul
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What we classify as GTL Scamming are blatant attempts to trick someone into paying a lot more than they think they are. These listings are often disguised as something snipe-worthy, such as an item worth 25k being repeatedly listed for 200k until someone mistakes it for 20k, resulting in the victim losing 180k.


While the victim is partially to blame, when we ban someone for it, it's when the intention is very clearly to fish for someone to make this mistake. It doesn't feel good to be the buyer in this case, it's an extremely scummy tactic, and it requires little effort on the seller's part as well. If it were risk-free, a lot more people would do it, so we take action against it.

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8 minutes ago, Rache said:

it's when the intention is very clearly to fish for someone to make this mistake. It doesn't feel good to be the buyer in this case

what about sniping? you wait for someone to make a mistake. if i list my comp for 60k instead of 600k i also dont feel good

 

8 minutes ago, Rache said:

If it were risk-free, a lot more people would do it, so we take action against it.

their is a chance it won't sell and you lose the listig fee

Edited by Quinn010
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6 minutes ago, Rache said:

What we classify as GTL Scamming are blatant attempts to trick someone into paying a lot more than they think they are. These listings are often disguised as something snipe-worthy, such as an item worth 25k being repeatedly listed for 200k until someone mistakes it for 20k, resulting in the victim losing 180k.


While the victim is partially to blame, when we ban someone for it, it's when the intention is very clearly to fish for someone to make this mistake. It doesn't feel good to be the buyer in this case, it's an extremely scummy tactic, and it requires little effort on the seller's part as well. If it were risk-free, a lot more people would do it, so we take action against it.

So, the sniper loses because they didn't read something that was clearly displayed right in front of them.

 

And?.....

 

Why is this bad when deliberately "tricking noobs into thinking their pokemon and items aren't worth anything" is supported and celebrated? That's basically scamming, and in fact the definition of scamming.

 

Is is because one is harming the richer community and the other isn't?

 

Gotta pick a side here.

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2 hours ago, Quinn010 said:

what about sniping? you wait for someone to make a mistake. if i list my comp for 60k instead of 600k i also dont feel good

 

their is a chance it won't sell and you lose the listig fee

Waiting for someone to make a mistake on their own isn't the same as actively trying to trick someone into making a mistake. The latter is malicious and aims to create victims that there otherwise wouldn't be.

 

The profit made from successfully selling an overpriced item more than pays for the listing fees of the failed attempts.

 

2 hours ago, EssDeeCee said:

Why is this bad when deliberately "tricking noobs into thinking their pokemon and items aren't worth anything" is supported and celebrated? That's basically scamming, and in fact the definition of scamming.

We don't encourage it at all, but there's no fair way to punish typical lowballing. To do so would be assuming malice when often we'd just be dealing with an inexperienced trader. If the trade goes through regardless of intention, it's entirely with the other player's agreement, and presumably they're happy with the deal. In the case of GTL scamming, the buyer thought they were paying 20k for their item, they didn't actually want to pay 200k.

 

If someone is clearly lying about the value of something to get a better deal, it's something a victim has a chance of reversing if they report it though, we've taken action against this sort of thing in the past. It depends on the situation though, it's not a guaranteed outcome.

Edited by Rache
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1 hour ago, Rache said:

In the case of GTL scamming, the buyer thought they were paying 20k for their item, they didn't actually want to pay 200k.

 

No, the text is clearly readable and the numbers are clearly readable. They screwed themselves over. They had every opportunity not to buy that item for 10x the cost, yet they still did.

 

See?

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Dumbest ban reason I've ever heard of. If you are buying 100RP for 2m that's 110% your own fault, how is it different from sniping a mon or an item from GTL because the lister forgot a "0" out there? This is legit the dumbest thing I've ever heard and my guess would be that a staff was the one who fell for the trap and got mad. Enjoy abusing your power lmfao, y'all make yourself looks worse and worse every single time.

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1 minute ago, SweeTforU said:

Dumbest ban reason I've ever heard of. If you are buying 100RP for 2m that's 110% your own fault, how is it different from sniping a mon or an item from GTL because the lister forgot a "0" out there? This is legit the dumbest thing I've ever heard

It's not different at all. Are we allowed to contact staff when we list something too cheap and it gets sniped now? Or is that not allowed?

 

It's such a bad decision and just makes the mods who made this decision look absolutely out of touch and foolish.

 

And lets get back to basically encouraging people to scam out of their pokes/items by lowballing the hell out of them, I thought this is OK because the price is agreed upon? The price on GTL was agreed upon for the item, why is one encouraged and the other frowned upon? That's just poor biased moderation right there.

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As that item sits on the gtl for hours and hours, it really is the buyers fault if they buy said overpriced item, since it’s been up that long for a reason, and there’s not just an extra 0 in the item name but a comma as well. The only people who would be at a disadvantage here are the snipers who spam refresh and click fast as soon as an item’s listed without reading the full item name, and I’m indifferent to gtl snipers losing some money 

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Let's start banning the people who were so rude to buy that shiny for 1k off gtl when the lister misclicked, right? This is a horrible precedent to be setting. No one forces anyone to buy anything off GTL, if you are buying 100 RP for the price of 1,000 it is absolutely your own fault. I have done this and it's my own fault, I should be checking more thoroughly . This is just how GTL works when you are buying stuff very fast. It's all apart of the risk reward.

 

I really hope this guy gets unbanned because this is a joke of a ban.

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3 hours ago, Rache said:

Waiting for someone to make a mistake on their own isn't the same as actively trying to trick someone into making a mistake. The latter is malicious and aims to create victims that there otherwise wouldn't be.

 

Both, I believe, are of malicious because both are still fraudulent acts because they wait for a buyer's mistake. However, I still don't understand how it's the seller's fault if the buyer isn't careful. Everything boils down to the buyer's keen senses and judgment. If the buyer is just careful on what he/she buys, then there wouldn't be any of this GTL scam problem in the first place. Isn't this what gtl sniping is all about? You win some. You lose some. I believe it's a fair game. 

 

I'm just shocked how this kind of behavior came without warning. Nothing in the Code of Conduct says anything about "GTL Scamming" . It wasn't thoroughly explained and defined in the said statute. Now we have a plenty of players who are permanently banned because they didn't know that what they were doing was in fact sanctioned for a permanent ban. This part makes no sense to me.

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I’m aware that they implemented price caps on the 100rp voucher item (somewhere between 450k-1m). That’s fine for now, but could hinder the market in the future should rp prices surge again. So to compound this bandaid like treatment, they’re now permabanning (just saw the op’s screen) players for breaking market rules they never knew existed? They couldn’t do it again if they tried thanks to the price cap, why remove them from the game entirely?

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I've never fell for any scams either online or irl, but in my opinion if you're trying to profit on someone else's mistake, you're probably not the kind of player the staff wants to have in their community. That applies to both GTL Scammers and Snipers. If you don't want to be penalized for being a shitty person with bad intentions, maybe you should not be a shitty person with bad intentions, that might work.

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1 minute ago, calidubstep said:

I’m aware that they implemented price caps on the 100rp voucher item (somewhere between 450k-1m). That’s fine for now, but could hinder the market in the future should rp prices surge again. So to compound this bandaid like treatment, they’re now permabanning (just saw the op’s screen) players for breaking market rules they never knew existed? They couldn’t do it again if they tried thanks to the price cap, why remove them from the game entirely?

Quite simple.

 

They have no idea what they're doing and one of them or their teammate got bamboozled by the 100RP voucher.

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