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August-Movement Discussion Thread


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9 hours ago, suigin said:

No, I'm disgusted by it too. Hence why I first complained about it when my own Gengar was letting me set something else up by disabling a mon using Cursed Body allowing me to win the game.

 

Yeah I hate scald but it's a completely different dynamic to Cursed Body.

 

39 minutes ago, MadaraSixSix said:

yes i remember that match but when the game decides you lose then you will lose

 

I don't have to agree with everything he says,

 

you can't really compare cursed body and scald ...
scald and especially annoying for physical pokemon, will be less annoying for pokemon with guts, disharge does not para electrick pokemon ect
cursed body will affect the phy and special pokemon, the pokemon with one move, the scarf, the choice band ect

and once again for playing a lot OU, playing a lot scald, disharge curse body

curse body a proc much more often than burn or para

 

I may be delusional, but it is my impression as a player OU

 

@suigin 

one tc told me that "gengar was not broken so it didn't matter that he with cursed body"

I have to join him on that, gengar or jellicent are not broken pokemon, so even with this ability it's still legit I think

 

I personally don't like this ability either.
but i think all tc find this ability normal
 

Hey I didn’t compare cursed body and scald, I just compared the 30% proc.

 

i know that a burn or a para isn’t the same as a ability who make you free set up (or just a sub sometime is enough) after it proc.

 

you was complaining about the fact that for you the ability proc a lot (more than 30%) that’s why I wanted to do the comparaison

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Why is Pory2 a problem?

 

Pory2 is the core of UU which safe switches in alot of stuff

 

Yanmega for example will be a big threat to UU if pory2 is out.
Why? well gigalith doesnt have any recovery move so if u keep chipping damage to it, gigalith would be useless (imagine dugtrio + yanmega combo ?  )

Snorlax and dusclops have to rest, and hope for sleeptalk to attack (bdslam or seistoss) again not reliable bcs u mostly can get fukt by RNG.

Crobat? well with strock + a balsy psyic predict will just make u cry

Empoleon doesnt have any recovery as well and chippin it 1 time makes it a 2 shot the next time it switches in

 

Mismagius nplot example same story as above, gigalith doesnt have reliable recovery, gets chipped alot and in the end Mismagius just freely sweeps. same story with snorlax as above, has to rest at some point and has to rely to sleeptalk it attacks, meanwhile the mismagius just spams Nplot. dugtrio + mismagius combo part2 ?? ?

 

Rhyperior another example, pory2 safely switches in (mostly download) tanks a eq and can either icebeam, recover or toxic on a switch in . Even when he sub or swdance, icebeam will still pressure rhyperior hard. 

Vaporeon lacks some hp or def bcs of certain evs spread which need to outspeed bdrum azu

which makes eq a chance to 2 shot

Gligar is gonna tickle rhyperir and makes him easily set up

Bronzong would get forced to switch out because of the smackdown variant.

 

 

 

Personally i dont think pory2 is problematic and if there are people who disagree with me, instead of complaining give us viable calcs, examples, etc 

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There are things that are imo more important than P2. Getting rid of Dugtrio, Quick Claw, evasion-boosting abilities/ bright powder and any other shit that only adds rng to already rng-heavy game should be our priority imo.

9 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

Why is Pory2 a problem?

 

Pory2 is the core of UU which safe switches in alot of stuff

 

Yanmega for example will be a big threat to UU if pory2 is out.
Why? well gigalith doesnt have any recovery move so if u keep chipping damage to it, gigalith would be useless (imagine dugtrio + yanmega combo ?  )

Snorlax and dusclops have to rest, and hope for sleeptalk to attack (bdslam or seistoss) again not reliable bcs u mostly can get fukt by RNG.

Crobat? well with strock + a balsy psyic predict will just make u cry

Empoleon doesnt have any recovery as well and chippin it 1 time makes it a 2 shot the next time it switches in

 

Mismagius nplot example same story as above, gigalith doesnt have reliable recovery, gets chipped alot and in the end Mismagius just freely sweeps. same story with snorlax as above, has to rest at some point and has to rely to sleeptalk it attacks, meanwhile the mismagius just spams Nplot. dugtrio + mismagius combo part2 ?? ?

 

Rhyperior another example, pory2 safely switches in (mostly download) tanks a eq and can either icebeam, recover or toxic on a switch in . Even when he sub or swdance, icebeam will still pressure rhyperior hard. 

Vaporeon lacks some hp or def bcs of certain evs spread which need to outspeed bdrum azu

which makes eq a chance to 2 shot

Gligar is gonna tickle rhyperir and makes him easily set up

Bronzong would get forced to switch out because of the smackdown variant.

 

Personally i dont think pory2 is problematic and if there are people who disagree with me, instead of complaining give us viable calcs, examples, etc 

Again, if Pory2 is broken (although I do not believe it is, especially in a meta which has so many powerful physical attackers such as Medicham, Heracross, Swampert or Metagross), then keeping a potentially broken mon to wall other broken mons isn't an answer.

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2 hours ago, RysPicz said:

There are things that are imo more important than P2. Getting rid of Dugtrio, Quick Claw, evasion-boosting abilities/ bright powder and any other shit that only adds rng to already rng-heavy game should be our priority imo.

Again, if Pory2 is broken (although I do not believe it is, especially in a meta which has so many powerful physical attackers such as Medicham, Heracross, Swampert or Metagross), then keeping a potentially broken mon to wall other broken mons isn't an answer.

idk what metagross you use or what porygon2s you face but when i play p2 i dont lose to a metagross (besides cosmic power or 2atk raises with meteor mash) 

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2 hours ago, RysPicz said:

There are things that are imo more important than P2. Getting rid of Dugtrio, Quick Claw, evasion-boosting abilities/ bright powder and any other shit that only adds rng to already rng-heavy game should be our priority imo.

Again, if Pory2 is broken (although I do not believe it is, especially in a meta which has so many powerful physical attackers such as Medicham, Heracross, Swampert or Metagross), then keeping a potentially broken mon to wall other broken mons isn't an answer.

if heracross isnt flame orb it lose against p2
mediacham can only revenge kill p2
what swampert can do vs p2 ? lmao
metagross can come on p2 but same as swampert what can metagross do if it's not CB hammer arm?

saying p2 cant wall physical threat is called ignorance about the mon you are talking about.

P2 can be played in 3 different way : physical wall , special wall and this dump modest download set.

the physical wall can live on 70% chance from a flame orb close combat from Heracross, have 100% chance of tanking high jump kick from medicham scarf ada and i wont speak about metagross CB because it will be useless to speak about something we face almost 1 game out of 100 in UU. 

the special wall one win against all special sweeper in UU without any exception. Imagine having something that can easily wall a shell smash user at +2 with a super effective move and when i say easily i mean it cant even 2OHKO p2.
 

now lets talk about modest download p2. even without specially def or def investissment p2 can wall the entire UU metagame excepted fighting CB user or medicham adamant . You can add at this the fact p2 has less than 5 switch in in the tier included p2.
So you are the biggest wall and one of the fearest offensive mon at the same time with the same set in UU and we cant see the problem about p2 ?

Some of you will say : we can beat p2 with toxic or using cheap damage to deal with it BUT p2 have acces to : recover , toxic , teleport and all his offensive move included boltbeam combo and a stab that can easily proc a statu on your mon. Dealing with P2 is never free and this is where the problem is.
I can say too that it can feat easily in a team with heal bell user like vaporeon or lanturn since this tier running at least 4 wall in each team.


 

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3 hours ago, RysPicz said:

There are things that are imo more important than P2. Getting rid of Dugtrio, Quick Claw, evasion-boosting abilities/ bright powder and any other shit that only adds rng to already rng-heavy game should be our priority imo.

 

dugtrio + quick claw + evasion boosting abilities combined doesnt have p2 usage 

where should we put priority ? on some item using only by noob in 400 or less elo or a mon spammed by everyone ?

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3 hours ago, PoseidonWrath said:

Why is Pory2 a problem?

 

Pory2 is the core of UU which safe switches in alot of stuff

 

Yanmega

Mismagius

Rhyperior

 

Personally i dont think pory2 is problematic and if there are people who disagree with me, instead of complaining give us viable calcs, examples, etc 

Yanmega 1st: it has x4 weakness to SR . It always been a big threat in UU even before p2 come to UU and everyone deal with it. It die to every won that are faster than him. We have PZ in UU and last thing dugtrio + any mon is problematic.

Mismagius : same things than yanmega it can easily be revenge killed even more since krooks is one the most used mon in the tier and doesnt have acces to recover move.

Rhyperior : since swampert and gastro are UU a lot of bronzong are running grass knot , 0 SpA Bronzong Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 180-213 (81.4 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
if you want to beat bronzong you need to anticipate your opponent switch if you r running smack down and if not you cant beat bronzong. Saying Rhyperior will be a problem in UU if p2 is banned from UU is irrelevant here since they are a lot of check to rhyperior.

"p2 is the core of UU which safe switches in alot of stuff" yeah it switch on every mon in the tier except 3 of them lmao
and only 3 of them can switch on p2 if we not incluude p2 itself 

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57 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:

dugtrio + quick claw + evasion boosting abilities combined doesnt have p2 usage 

where should we put priority ? on some item using only by noob in 400 or less elo or a mon spammed by everyone ?

We should put priority in making the game less rng-reliant so "noob in 400" won't beat a 700 points player by sheer luck through sand veil evasion. Shit like quick claw, bright powder and evasion-boosting abilities are affecting entire game in almost all tiers, while Pory2 resides in UU only, although this is just my own opinion. I can understand that you are mainly a UU player (?) and Porygon affects you more than the other bullshit devs brought upon us not too long ago, though.

 

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

if heracross isnt flame orb it lose against p2
mediacham can only revenge kill p2
what swampert can do vs p2 ? lmao
metagross can come on p2 but same as swampert what can metagross do if it's not CB hammer arm?

Oh, so CB Heracross cannot KO p2. Or a scarfer after rocks. Right. Good to know. Have you considered joining TC?

 

I guess in your world Porygon2 magically resists fighting STAB and runs 252 hp def satk sdef and 3 natures at the same time, walls everything and oneshots everything that switches into it. Regardless, flame orb hera is ran 75% of the time so your argument is pretty much irrelevant. It's like saying that "if Pory2 is not eviolite then Yanmega can 2hko it after rocks".

 

I'm not here to educate you what a mon can do to other mon, I mentioned physical attackers (without even mentioning Azumarill, Krooko, or Mamoswine) which can quite easily dispose of Pory2, as the bold natured Pory is used only 20% of the time (mostly calm/ modest).

 

Please don't put words I haven't said into my mouth. I have not said a single word or even implied that Pory cannot wall a physical threat (that's actually ignorance, and additionally, hypocrisy, but I digress). Of course, it can do it with a Bold nature and max def, but then it gets 2shoted by PoryZ, Yanmega or Exegg's Solarbeam. It's a double edged sword.

 

2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:

the physical wall can live on 70% chance from a flame orb close combat from Heracross, have 100% chance of tanking high jump kick from medicham scarf ada and i wont speak about metagross CB because it will be useless to speak about something we face almost 1 game out of 100 in UU. 

And gets 2 shoted by Yanmega or PoryZ. Nice tradeoff.

 

2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:

the special wall one win against all special sweeper in UU without any exception. Imagine having something that can easily wall a shell smash user at +2 with a super effective move and when i say easily i mean it cant even 2OHKO p2.

Then special wall gets killed by any fighting STAB. Again you are behaving as if P2 can run Modest/ Bold/ Calm natures at the same time and has 252 hp def satk sdef.

 

2 hours ago, AwaXGoku said:

inow lets talk about modest download p2. even without specially def or def investissment p2 can wall the entire UU metagame excepted fighting CB user or medicham adamant . You can add at this the fact p2 has less than 5 switch in in the tier included p2.
So you are the biggest wall and one of the fearest offensive mon at the same time with the same set in UU and we cant see the problem about p2 ?

This is a blatant lie. Modest P2 can wall the entire UU metagame bar CC/ Superpower/ Hjk? Are you trying to lie to yourself or to us? Trying to use a lie to support your claim of a broken mon instantly makes you look ridiculous and drastically kills all your other arguments.

 

 

If you want to discuss Pory2, then do it the right way.

Is it an offensive uber? Surely not.

Is it a support uber? I don't think so.

Is it a defensive uber? Run the calcs and check yourself, it doesn't magically switch in on every attack in the game and soak it up.

Is it centralizing/ unhealthy? Maybe. That would be the only criteria we could use to actually discuss it.

1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

idk what metagross you use or what porygon2s you face but when i play p2 i dont lose to a metagross (besides cosmic power or 2atk raises with meteor mash) 

I guess I like my CB set too much, it's seriously fun tho (and hammer arm 2hkos Pory even without rocks. Unless you're me and you miss that 90%)

 

 

I couldn't care less about Porygon2 in UU, it's one of those mons for which you'll have to come prepared but it does not fit any of the uber criterias.

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52 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

We should put priority in making the game less rng-reliant so "noob in 400" won't beat a 700 points player by sheer luck through sand veil evasion. Shit like quick claw, bright powder and evasion-boosting abilities are affecting entire game in almost all tiers, while Pory2 resides in UU only, although this is just my own opinion. I can understand that you are mainly a UU player (?) and Porygon affects you more than the other bullshit devs brought upon us not too long ago, though.

yes i can understand this opinion but like i said quick claw usage is almost irrelevant and im not speaking about bright powder that i faced like 0 time in 3 years.

 

52 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Oh, so CB Heracross cannot KO p2. Or a scarfer after rocks. Right. Good to know. Have you considered joining TC?

like always you need to answer with sarcasm when you reply on forum because you need to look so cool for your friend but anyway lets make as you never write this.

cb hera against a full hp def p2 ( you can look at usage , people use it  or at least with +def nature)
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 168-200 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
scarf hera against modeste p2 
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 158-188 (82.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
with drop spedef on hera :
+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 153-181 (98.7 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
 

 

57 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I guess in your world Porygon2 magically resists fighting STAB and runs 252 hp def satk sdef and 3 natures at the same time, walls everything and oneshots everything that switches into it.

again sarcasm but i feel like you absolutly need to feel superior.

i didnt say p2 kill everything i just say that's not normal something that can wall almost all the tier is also something without any counter or switch in safe 

 

 

1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

I'm not here to educate you what a mon can do to other mon, I mentioned physical attackers (without even mentioning Azumarill, Krooko, or Mamoswine) which can quite easily dispose of Pory2, as the bold natured Pory is used only 20% of the time (mostly calm/ modest).

as always , azu doesnt come on discharge/tri (i hope you wont they this is like using p2 without eviolite) krook doesnt come on ice beam and dont do anything to p2 (you maybe drunk idk) and mamo need to run CB or life orb and like always doesnt like triattak (you cant do calc if you want)
i hope you will educate yourself next time before writing things like that.
 

 

1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

This is a blatant lie. Modest P2 can wall the entire UU metagame bar CC/ Superpower/ Hjk? Are you trying to lie to yourself or to us? Trying to use a lie to support your claim of a broken mon instantly makes you look ridiculous and drastically kills all your other arguments.

yeah you will decide what argument are valid or not.

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1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

If you want to discuss Pory2, then do it the right way.

Is it an offensive uber? Surely not.

Is it a support uber? I don't think so.

Is it a defensive uber? Run the calcs and check yourself, it doesn't magically switch in on every attack in the game and soak it up.

Is it centralizing/ unhealthy? Maybe. That would be the only criteria we could use to actually discuss it.

I guess I like my CB set too much, it's seriously fun tho (and hammer arm 2hkos Pory even without rocks. Unless you're me and you miss that 90%)

i agree with p2 isnt an offensive uber 
i agree with support 
it is a deffensive uber. 

Is it centralizing ? yes. It switch on every attack on the game ? except some big sweeper it does 
you missed the fact that with some support in the team (heal bell , voltswitch user and more) it can easily become a problem for your team especially the modest download set.


Next time try to play at least some game in the tier before answering like you did. And i dont care about what you win in 2014 or idk. Just play the actual metagame and see by yourself how p2 is unhealthy for UU.

I hope you wont reply like you do always that's boring 

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7 hours ago, PoseidonWrath said:

Why is Pory2 a problem?

 

Pory2 is the core of UU which safe switches in alot of stuff

 

Yanmega for example will be a big threat to UU if pory2 is out.
Why? well gigalith doesnt have any recovery move so if u keep chipping damage to it, gigalith would be useless (imagine dugtrio + yanmega combo ?  )

Snorlax and dusclops have to rest, and hope for sleeptalk to attack (bdslam or seistoss) again not reliable bcs u mostly can get fukt by RNG.

Crobat? well with strock + a balsy psyic predict will just make u cry

Empoleon doesnt have any recovery as well and chippin it 1 time makes it a 2 shot the next time it switches in

 

Mismagius nplot example same story as above, gigalith doesnt have reliable recovery, gets chipped alot and in the end Mismagius just freely sweeps. same story with snorlax as above, has to rest at some point and has to rely to sleeptalk it attacks, meanwhile the mismagius just spams Nplot. dugtrio + mismagius combo part2 ?? ?

 

Rhyperior another example, pory2 safely switches in (mostly download) tanks a eq and can either icebeam, recover or toxic on a switch in . Even when he sub or swdance, icebeam will still pressure rhyperior hard. 

Vaporeon lacks some hp or def bcs of certain evs spread which need to outspeed bdrum azu

which makes eq a chance to 2 shot

Gligar is gonna tickle rhyperir and makes him easily set up

Bronzong would get forced to switch out because of the smackdown variant.

 

 

 

Personally i dont think pory2 is problematic and if there are people who disagree with me, instead of complaining give us viable calcs, examples, etc 

You'd have a fun time playing BW or ORAS, those are plenty of defensive checks for a mon with 4x SR weakness x) Some checks not having recovery means you have to play smarter around the threat your opponent has, not mindlessly go to P2 on anything that can attack on special and has no fighting coverage. Having 100% safe answers to everything isn't really what a healthy metagame should strive for, that just creates stagnation.

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Why are we acting like there is no hazards in this game? that pokemons are always at 100% health during the whole game ?

that people can't predict a move from porygon2 ? that you can't force porygon2 to recover to get some poke in freely ?

and it's not like there are 0 mons that can't revenge kill it or even just kill it. P2 doesn't have leftovers so hazards, status and weather (sand) will make things a bit difficult for its longevity.

Lanturn, Bronzong, Snorlax, CB Snorlax, Dusclops, Metagross, Porygon2, Scrafty, Spdef Swampert, Gastrodon, Gigalith, all of them can stall/ come in on p2/ can force p2 to recover to finally bring in a more fragile wallbreaker safely. Okay some of them are less useful than others, but most of them are very viable and useful in that meta.

All I see here is theory and it doesn't mean much in the actual game. Porygon2 isn't a threat in UU, you just gotta be prepared for it like you gotta be prepared for any top tiers pokemons in each tier.

 

Edited by Aerun
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I don't think the argument is about p2 not having any answers. But that all of its answers are mostly defensive and that it stiffles creativity for offense. Modest duck is something that just breaks through offense, which is forced to run rigid structures to deal with it.

 

As far as I understand it, that is the basis of the requested suspect test. 'You can outdefense a defensive mon' isn't really surprising.

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1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

yes i can understand this opinion but like i said quick claw usage is almost irrelevant and im not speaking about bright powder that i faced like 0 time in 3 years.

It's not the usage itself. For god's sake, this is really becoming ridiculous because it's being repeated on literally every page of this thread. I don't know how many times I have to reiterate this so people will realize that usage of something doesn't mean it's uncompetitive/ broken. Kinda shame I got only 2 hands because they aren't enough to express my facepalm.

 

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

like always you need to answer with sarcasm when you reply on forum because you need to look so cool for your friend but anyway lets make as you never write this.

Do you really think I'm writing posts in a specific manner to get likes from people? Are you out of your mind or out of arguments? If a noname like yourself puts into my mouth words I didn't say and then additionally calls me out for alleged ignorance, you think I'd just calmly sit and watch a rando blatantly lie on forums and attack me for pretty much no reason?

We don't like each other with Madara yet we were able to discuss our stands without issue, I received respect and returned it back. Present your arguments in a civilized matter, without calling anyone out, and you'll receive the same from me. Right now you're being treated like a terribly lost player that has no idea what he is talking about.

I just called out you for the absolute stupidity and lies you are spreading over forums and I'm about to do it once again.

 

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

cb hera against a full hp def p2 ( you can look at usage , people use it  or at least with +def nature)
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 168-200 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
scarf hera against modeste p2 
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 158-188 (82.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
with drop spedef on hera :
+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 153-181 (98.7 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Lemme help you out, because your calcs are somewhat lacking.

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 152-182 (79.1 - 94.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 146-174 (76 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
 
I even used a Jolly Hera for you as it's the more common nature. Looks like P2 isn't as unkillable as you're making it? I even switched your Pory EVs and nature, just for the sake of your magical 3x Nature 4x252 EV Pory.
1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

again sarcasm but i feel like you absolutly need to feel superior.

i didnt say p2 kill everything i just say that's not normal something that can wall almost all the tier is also something without any counter or switch in safe 

I don't give a shit about feeling superior, I'm a man on a mission and I want to get rid of all the bullshit rng that devs included for no reason. And no, that was not a sarcasm, because you keep switching your Porygon's nature and spread with each paragraph to support your claim (fact =/= sarcasm). I'm indifferent about Pory's residence in the tier. 

 

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

as always , azu doesnt come on discharge/tri (i hope you wont they this is like using p2 without eviolite) krook doesnt come on ice beam and dont do anything to p2 (you maybe drunk idk) and mamo need to run CB or life orb and like always doesnt like triattak (you cant do calc if you want)
i hope you will educate yourself next time before writing things like that

So we're searching for switch-ins for P2 in the tier right now. Sure- Umbreon, Gigalith, Scrafty, Gastrodon, Dusclops, Snorlax. From both offensive and defensive sides. Also another Pory2 (lololol healthy meta).

 

Sure, Azu, Krooko and Mamo don't come in for free on Pory unless predicted Discharge/ Ice Beam, but Pory is currently used a pivot, similar to Rotom. It switches in to tank a weak hit and either hits itself or teleports to preserve momentum. The thing is, being a pivot means that Pory is highly suspective to U-Turn and Volt Switch itself, giving the mentioned earlier mons easy access to switch in and strike it's weak physical side.

 

Suddenly Krooko doesn't have access to CC and cannot hurt Pory2. I guess it also cannot have CB as held item. Looks like I was wrong for all those years of playing, thanks for helping out fam and thanks for worrying- sorry to disappoint, I'm not drunk.

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

yeah you will decide what argument are valid or not.

No dude. Saying that "modest pory2 walls entire tier bar mons with fighting moves" is a ridiculously stupid lie full stop. Read it once again and think for yourself, thinking before typing really doesn't hurt.

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

i agree with p2 isnt an offensive uber 
i agree with support 
it is a deffensive uber. 

How is it a defensive uber? Please post calcs that support your claim, provide us with replays/ specific situations from the game. I will be more than happy to read your post and change my mind if you will be able to present valid, reasonable arguments. Other than that, for now you're just making yourself look really bad.

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

Is it centralizing ? yes. It switch on every attack on the game ? except some big sweeper it does 
you missed the fact that with some support in the team (heal bell , voltswitch user and more) it can easily become a problem for your team especially the modest download set.

I do agree, it is centralizing to some degree. But, that's the same story for the S tier mons in every tier- you just have to come prepared for Garchomp, Conk, Sciz when you play OU. You have to prepare for Rotom and Slowbro while playing NU. And you have to prepare for P2 when playing UU.

 

I didn't miss that fact, of course Pory with support can be a problem. But same thing goes for a lot of mons, for example if you support your PZ with a Dugtrio to remove Gigalith that would otherwise wall it, then PZ becomes a problem.

 

1 hour ago, AwaXGoku said:

Next time try to play at least some game in the tier before answering like you did. And i dont care about what you win in 2014 or idk. Just play the actual metagame and see by yourself how p2 is unhealthy for UU.

I hope you wont reply like you do always that's boring 

Wait, didn't you win your first official tour like, 2 weeks ago? Pretty big mouth for someone with such lackluster discussion/ competitive experience. Maybe you should go back into hunting shinies and playing pve events?

 

About me and playing- dude, you're making a total idiot out of yourself right now. I could understand if you would direct that kind of line to a dude who returned after few years of hiatus, but I actually played a lot of UU for V4 during the team tournaments and the team PSL, I got around 200 matches last season and even found some time to play in officials. I never speak about things where I got no experience (that is why I don't talk about OU). And now you're making yourself look terrible again- do you finally want to discuss Pory as defensive uber, or unhealthy?

 

Return to basics, read Senile's tiering etiquette guide and read this thread to see how mature people can discuss their stands. If you will continue to attempt to undermine my credibility by saying I don't play, then we don't have anything to talk about. If you want a decent discussion, then focus on P2 instead of trying to attack me.

 

Bonne nuit.

Edited by RysPicz
typo
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All I see is plenty of wrong arguments. But keep going it's fun.

 

For the one (don't remember who) who said "provide calcs and arguments" > you should check previous months movement discussion as well as some Discord called "PokeMMO Colliseum" where PLENTY of arguments were made on Quick Claw, Dug, Porygon2, PorygonZ, and more over the course of the past months (at least when I still cared)

If you don't see arguments, you can't blame it on the others but blame it on yourself for not reading what's being said

 

Uh also, saying a mon is needed in the tier BECAUSE it stops 50% of the tier isn't an argument, it sounds more like a reason to ban it honestly we aren't playing stall simulator excuse me x)

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On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

 f a noname like yourself puts into my mouth words I didn't say and then additionally calls me out for alleged ignorance, you think I'd just calmly sit and watch a rando blatantly lie on forums and attack me for pretty much no reason?

 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 12:15 AM, RysPicz said:

Have you considered joining TC?

 

I guess in your world Porygon2 magically resists fighting STAB and runs 252 hp def satk sdef and 3 natures at the same time, walls everything and oneshots everything that switches into it. Regardless, flame orb hera is ran 75% of the time so your argument is pretty much irrelevant. It's like saying that "if Pory2 is not eviolite then Yanmega can 2hko it after rocks".

 

I'm not here to educate you what a mon can do to other mon

 

Please don't put words I haven't said into my mouth. I have not said a single word or even implied that Pory cannot wall a physical threat (that's actually ignorance, and additionally, hypocrisy, but I digress). 

 

Trying to use a lie to support your claim of a broken mon instantly makes you look ridiculous and drastically kills all your other arguments.


If you want to discuss Pory2, then do it the right way.

Yep i think i attacked you first , maybe you can try to consult someone because you seem to have mental issue.
Btw i feel honored than the GREAT and STRONG forfiter know better than me what im doing on this game since you remember when i won my first official. Or maybe did you use your precious time to wright my name everywhere on the forum? what a strong level of nerds we have here.

 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

 

Lemme help you out, because your calcs are somewhat lacking.

252 Atk Choice Band Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 152-182 (79.1 - 94.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
252 Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 146-174 (76 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

so with your calc you are just validating the fact than p2 can win vs hera in some situation.
if you r brain works correctly you can see that 25% chance of killing mean you will be killed 75 other %.

 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

 

 don't give a shit about feeling superior, I'm a man on a mission and I want to get rid of all the bullshit rng that devs included for no reason. And no, that was not a sarcasm, because you keep switching your Porygon's nature and spread with each paragraph to support your claim (fact =/= sarcasm). I'm indifferent about Pory's residence in the tier. 

if you read my first post again you can see i made different paragraph for each porygon's set so idk what you mean.
 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

 So we're searching for switch-ins for P2 in the tier right now. Sure- Umbreon, Gigalith, Scrafty, Gastrodon, Dusclops, Snorlax. From both offensive and defensive sides. Also another Pory2 (lololol healthy meta).

umbreon: ok , giga : come and get toxic+ doesnt have recover move, scrafty : ?? , gastro: get toxic (imagine playing gastro + vapo when p2 + vapo is pretty commun), dusclops: what it does to p after switching ? snorlax : only if it's the rest set but im ok with this. All pokemon you listed are slower than p2 and all of these mon doesnt make any pressure to your team.

 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

Sure, Azu, Krooko and Mamo don't come in for free on Pory unless predicted Discharge/ Ice Beam, but Pory is currently used a pivot, similar to Rotom. It switches in to tank a weak hit and either hits itself or teleports to preserve momentum. The thing is, being a pivot means that Pory is highly suspective to U-Turn and Volt Switch itself, giving the mentioned earlier mons easy access to switch in and strike it's weak physical side.

your speaking like p2 is alone in one team. and will need to come to every uturn and volt switch user. 
flygon, crobat, staraptor, yanmega are the only common uturn user and if your only answer to the 3 first in your team is p2 it means the teambuild was bad. I say it again even if you dont like it , p2 can wall THE ENTIRE UU METAGAME except 3 or 4 mon and win his 1vs1 againt almost everything so it makes p2 a wincond (or maybe im not allowed to use term like this since i won my first tour 2 week ago?) in almost all the game he is in.
 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

  Suddenly Krooko doesn't have access to CC and cannot hurt Pory2. I guess it also cannot have CB as held item. Looks like I was wrong for all those years of playing, thanks for helping out fam and thanks for worrying- sorry to disappoint, I'm not drunk.

252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 58-69 (30.2 - 35.9%) -- 31.6% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Krookodile Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 92-110 (47.9 - 57.2%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Krookodile Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 138-164 (71.8 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 204-242 (120 - 142.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO


as you can see krook can kill p2 only if p2 is already cheaped and didnt recover so it means in a situation where p2 killed something or a double switch (it means taking risk) or a teleport user ( we came at bringing p2 to deal with p2).

 

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

No dude. Saying that "modest pory2 walls entire tier bar mons with fighting moves" is a ridiculously stupid lie full stop. Read it once again and think for yourself, thinking before typing really doesn't hurt.

How is it a defensive uber? Please post calcs that support your claim, provide us with replays/ specific situations from the game. I will be more than happy to read your post and change my mind if you will be able to present valid, reasonable arguments. Other than that, for now you're just making yourself look really bad.

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 120-142 (62.5 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 64-76 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 146-172 (76 - 89.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 100-118 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Exeggutor Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 99-118 (51.5 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 93-111 (48.4 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 146-172 (76 - 89.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 58-70 (30.2 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 93-109 (48.4 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 146-172 (76 - 89.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 78-93 (40.6 - 48.4%) -- 64.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 140-166 (72.9 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 156-184 (81.2 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Mismagius Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 125-148 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 108-127 (56.2 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 76-90 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 143-169 (74.4 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 108-128 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Heat Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 108-127 (56.2 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Scrafty High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 126-150 (65.6 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 55-66 (28.6 - 34.3%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 121-142 (63 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

all of these are calc ONLY for the modest one and without any EV in def or special def.


 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

I didn't miss that fact, of course Pory with support can be a problem. But same thing goes for a lot of mons, for example if you support your PZ with a Dugtrio to remove Gigalith that would otherwise wall it, then PZ becomes a problem.

you just campare a broken mon in the tier with another broken mon in the tier lmao

 

On 8/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, RysPicz said:

Wait, didn't you win your first official tour like, 2 weeks ago? Pretty big mouth for someone with such lackluster discussion/ competitive experience. Maybe you should go back into hunting shinies and playing pve events?

like i said before i feel so honored you know a lot of things from a no-name like me. Yes i won my 1st official 2 week ago and yes it's more than what you did in 2 last years. Since you telling me you still play the game you must be very bad then for someone with almost a decade of experience. You should probably try to shiny hunt too since they seem to have more knowledge about what they are talking about than you.

I hope at least you enjoyed all the like from your teammate you should be proud of you. 


 

On 8/14/2021 at 1:53 AM, Aerun said:

Why are we acting like there is no hazards in this game? that pokemons are always at 100% health during the whole game ?

that people can't predict a move from porygon2 ? that you can't force porygon2 to recover to get some poke in freely ?

and it's not like there are 0 mons that can't revenge kill it or even just kill it. P2 doesn't have leftovers so hazards, status and weather (sand) will make things a bit difficult for its longevity.

Lanturn, Bronzong, Snorlax, CB Snorlax, Dusclops, Metagross, Porygon2, Scrafty, Spdef Swampert, Gastrodon, Gigalith, all of them can stall/ come in on p2/ can force p2 to recover to finally bring in a more fragile wallbreaker safely. Okay some of them are less useful than others, but most of them are very viable and useful in that meta.

All I see here is theory and it doesn't mean much in the actual game. Porygon2 isn't a threat in UU, you just gotta be prepared for it like you gotta be prepared for any top tiers pokemons in each tier.

 

Now on a serious talk you 100% right SR is a big part in the game and calc about hera before was just a "funny" exemple since nobody will use p2 to deal with hera . The real problem is : all answer to p2 are slower than him and doesnt pressure the rest of your team most of the time. We have really few things that can revenge kill a p2 and force it to switch out in UU and most of them have a lot of check really common in UU. I hope you see what i want to say , the tier is already not the best atm and let p2 doing what he want in UU doesnt help to make this tier healthier.
 

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3 hours ago, Quinn010 said:

ban both porygons. 

This. I don't like this metagame, and other ppl I've talked with feel the same (tho I would like to see more inputs). Its way too restrictive, mostly because of the pory twins. I thought bringing back pz to uu was a shitty idea and I still think so, its such a menace for balance teams if they don't run an specific answer, and there are barely of those, Offensive builds don't really struggle that much against pz bcuz of its poor bulk but I think this meta doesn't favour offense at all, in good part thanks to p2. Now, I don't believe porygon2 is this monster that switchs, survives and beats everything, but no one can negate how hard it can be for offense to deal with it. Against pretty much every offensive build it will find a turn to get into the field and it will immediatly threaten all the team, and its very hard to force it out too. I mean, If I have to run a 120+ base atk with a boosting item in every team to scare p2 out, that just shows how strong it is. Basically, while its not impossible to deal with p2 and pz, I believe they have to go for the good of the tier.

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On 8/20/2021 at 11:14 AM, pachima said:

Imagine sharing 500 calcs of a Modest p2 with just 25% usage.

i just replied to someone asking me proof about what p2 modest can wall since he said i was lying 
and also this is imo the real problem about p2 in UU.
 

 

On 8/20/2021 at 12:15 PM, Bertolfoso said:

And the funny thing is that most of the time p2 doesnt kill back and then it's slower

you can try to calc and before saying things like this since only snorlax and metagross and misma dont take at least 70% damage from p2 (and half of them will probably die if rocks are on since it was an argument for p2)


 

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+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise: 124-148 (80.5 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Dies most of the times (only if there are rocks) and if there are not you are possibly putting it into torrent.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Venomoth: 82-97 (56.5 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

It is true that Venomoth takes a lot, but it is also true that you could sleep/disable p2 instead of attacking and get more quivers or just quiver and take the hit way better.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 174-205 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hot dog dies.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Alakazam: 102-120 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Zam also dies, but only if rocks are up and it still in zam's favour, which could nasty plot to reduce the risk of clicking 2 focus misses.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Exeggutor: 182-216 (107 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Egg gets cracked. Probably one of the worst matchups here.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 90-106 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

No HP lax (pretty sure nobody runs this) takes it pretty well. Also banded snorlax has 2.51% usage and curselax sits on p2.

 

Pretty sure you wouldn't use crobat to beat a bulky mon.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 154-182 (88 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Azu dies (25% with no rocks), but I feel like using waterfall (which can flinch) on p2 is purposefully unoptimal (also banded has low usage - underrated set imo).

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 184-218 (95.8 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Wayy better and guaranteed with rocks.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 106-126 (60.5 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

No bulk pert takes the hit and then kills p2. Full hp takes max 60%. Spdef bulk up takes max 43%.

 

Flygon dies im not even calcing that.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 71-84 (37.9 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 71-84 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Speedy Metagross outspeeds even at -1 and kills.

 

Staraptor dies, but the roll is in the bird's favour.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 70-83 (51.8 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Takes it pretty badly.

 

252 speed Rhyperior dies to 1 ice beam and 252 hp takes one but it's slower. P2 still can't switch in or it dies.

If ev'd to outspeed it, the odds are in Rhyperior's favour:

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 92 HP / 4 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 172-204 (85.1 - 100.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (6% with no rocks)

 

Yanmega dies to everything (it's a roll with tri attack), especially if rocks are up.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 144-171 (77.8 - 92.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Rocks really matter here, mamo's favour if banded.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Porygon-Z: 121-144 (75.6 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Dad beats up its son

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 87-103 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Scrafty wins, and now you've probably given it a moxie boost. Not including spdef rest bulk up.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 93-109 (74.4 - 87.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

No bulk rotom heat loses, but first of all specs has 7% usage, second p2 can be ruined with trick.

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sigilyph: 174-206 (118.3 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

dead sigi

 

+1 252+ SpA Porygon2 Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 86-102 (61.4 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Bisharp wins.

 

You might see this and think "wow p2 actually deals crazy damage" and yes, you would be right. But you need to keep in mind this is the best case scenario for p2, as it will not have a moveslot for teleport, letting it have the coverage it desires, and it always has the perfect download boost, which it won't have vs a lot of these pokemon. Even in the case where p2 wins the 1v1, your superbroken mon is now slow and almost dead.

 

here's your calcs won't ever do this again

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bertolfoso
senario to scenario
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1 hour ago, Bertolfoso said:

You might see this and think "wow p2 actually deals crazy damage" and yes, you would be right. But you need to keep in mind this is the best case senario for p2, as it will not have a moveslot for teleport, letting it have the coverage it desires, and it always has the perfect download boost, which it won't have vs a lot of these pokemon.

ye your 100% right here that's why i said at least 70% and not saying it kills.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bertolfoso said:

Even in the case where p2 wins the 1v1, your superbroken mon is now slow and almost dead.

im not fully agreed with this since some of the opposite mon cant deal enough damage like i show with all the stupid calc i show 1 week ago. And for the one that does enough damage to make p2 almost dead ,that just says you must sacc one of your big damage dealer to deal with a single mon after he already did one kill because most of the time you cant switch in with your offensive mon on p2 for free. I dont think this is normal and that's my opinion.

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