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July-Movement Discussion Thread


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Some people need to check what tiers are for. If a Pokemon is used in an upper tier it deserved to be in said tier. That's the point

The only question that should be asked is whether a pokemon can drop to a lower (hence weaker) tier or if its too good for that.

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On 6/28/2021 at 7:22 PM, ThinkNicer said:

Then it makes even less sense. Pokemon that are good in OU are not necessarily good in UU, I don't need to tell you that. Otherwise we can throw tiers out of the window and drop down anything that wouldnt be broken in the established lower tiers, like Mandibuzz, Cofagrigus, Jellicent, Infernape, Chandelure, Jolteon etc

Your explanation doesn't make sense in the aero situation because it has a low usage rate in both uu and nu. The sole reason it moves to ou is the niche suicide lead role. All the mons you mentioned will never drop to nu in the first place, and even if it ends up in nu it will get quick banned in no time.

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7 hours ago, Coge said:

Your explanation doesn't make sense in the aero situation because it has a low usage rate in both uu and nu. The sole reason it moves to ou is the niche suicide lead role. All the mons you mentioned will never drop to nu in the first place, and even if it ends up in nu it will get quick banned in no time.

Uh ok. But I was talking about UU with the drops. And having a great niche in an upper tier is enough of a reason for a mon to be moved up if it is used enough. Aero enables HO to put on incredible Pressure (heh) from the start of the game more than any other mon, that's a pretty good niche.

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On 6/28/2021 at 9:12 PM, Matthzinxl said:

UU is the Best metagame 🥰

 

Umbreon
Vaporeon
Torkoal
Bronzong
Dusclops
Spiritomb
Empoleon
Swampert
Gastrodon
Donphan
Lanturn
Snorlax
Porygon2
Metagross
Sigyliph
Gigalith

And now, tentacruel

 

 

This guy listed all the walls in uu lmfao

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On 6/28/2021 at 1:12 PM, Matthzinxl said:

UU is the Best metagame 🥰

 

Umbreon
Vaporeon
Torkoal
Bronzong
Dusclops
Spiritomb
Empoleon
Swampert
Gastrodon
Donphan
Lanturn
Snorlax
Porygon2
Metagross
Sigyliph
Gigalith

And now, tentacruel

 

 

If it weren't for you I didn't know the walls in uu, I appreciate it

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My world revolves around usage, its on you all to present evidence outside of that, or use it too thats fine as well, if you want something banned.  Currently its not sitting at some outrageous usage amount from my perspective.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Munya said:

My world revolves around usage, its on you all to present evidence outside of that, or use it too thats fine as well, if you want something banned.  Currently its not sitting at some outrageous usage amount from my perspective.

Reminder that TC laughted at people like me who argued about not allowing Dugtrio when it dropped (quickbanning).

So now you expect people to try providing arguments ? They ain't even considered 

There's no escaping "Ban X" messages now

Edited by TohnR
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Munya said:

Make your arguments as to why dugtrio should be banned to BL2 instead of just saying to ban it

Dugtrio has a decent base attack (80) and a very fast base speed (120), however the core problem we all know is it's uncompetitive ability - Arena Trap.

 

Problem

Dugtrio can revenge kill many threats which faints a Pokemon and could potentially KO many more from the opposing team. This can ruin strategies and discourage offensive playstyles a player may have, as they will be aware that if they kill a Pokemon, the Dugtrio user can just instantly kill it.

 

A range of commonly used offensive Pokemon in NU which are prone to ground types:

  • Blaziken
  • Magmortar
  • Typhlosion
  • Drapion
  • Houndoom
  • Manectric

(I can get the statistics for the previous seasons when I log in to justify this)

 

Choice scarf Dugtrio - This is the item I will use due to its capability to outspeed scarf Typhlosion (100), Manectric (105) and Blaziken (80) by having a base speed of 120, although some may run Choice Band.

 

We will assume that rocks are safely on the field, but will compare the calcs without.
 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 152-182 (98.7 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 152-182 (98.7 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Blaziken: 168-198 (107.6 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Drapion: 116-138 (79.4 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Drapion: 116-138 (79.4 - 94.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 170-204 (112.5 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Houndoom: 212-252 (140.3 - 166.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

*Although with enough attack EVs a Life Orb Houndoom can KO Dugtrio with a Sucker Punch

 

252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def Manectric: 186-222 (127.3 - 152%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Yes there are many ways to work around and stop Dugtrio, but players should not have to play safe with using certain Pokemon purely on the fact that they can be revenge killed in the next turn because of an uncompetitive ability compared to the skill of the opponent.

 

So I should ask - what's a good reason to keep Dugtrio without using the statistics as a reason to unjustify its ban?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Imperial
Fixed Dugtrio's base attack to 80 not 100
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2 hours ago, Munya said:

My world revolves around usage, its on you all to present evidence outside of that, or use it too thats fine as well, if you want something banned.  Currently its not sitting at some outrageous usage amount from my perspective.

That's understandable considering Lucario was about to be dropped into UU despite it being extremely centralising and potentially decimating many Pokemon in the tier.

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2 hours ago, Imperial said:

Dugtrio has a decent base attack (100) and a very fast base speed (120), however the core problem we all know is it's uncompetitive ability - Arena Trap.

Dugtrio has base 80 here, not 100. Just quickpointing it.

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