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Ban king's rock from PvP


JorgeFirebolt

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There's no need to explain why, it's frustrating to play a PvP, be about to win, you still got a counter vs Cloyster, and then, from nowhere, when cloyster just sets up Shell smash, tada, you get flinched!

 

It's literally one of the most unhealthy PvP items. For those who say that "King's rock is ok 'cause paraflinch exist eksdee", paraflinch can be stopped by lots of things like natural cure users, electric types, or heal bell cleric users, while king's rock cloyster is just a spammy unhealthy mon with no solid counter if boosted and flinch is done to it's counter.

 

It's not healthy to have a broken wallbreaker such as Cloyster with a 41% to flinch it's enemy and a 10% on each move. I bet I'm not the only one who was having a good match, close to win, then king's rock cloyster comes from nowhere and flinches the pokemon that can stop him. (Example: Magnezone, reuniclus, metagross, chansey/blissey at full health, cofagrigus, etc...)

 

Just ban it, it's the most unhealthy thing you can see on this PvP metagame. I'm open to any against argument and to answer them.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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5 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

If you think that king's rock is op, reach with only that in at least top 10 matchmaking rank.

This is only a strategy common used by 450- elo players, and the same strategy only win with RNG some walls. Like Obelisk members sayed to me once time: players that used hax itens for a long time actually are in 450- elo, without chance of grow up your elo and go up in ranks.

I in time that used cloyster, NEVER used king's rock. King's rock and Hax itens are like z-crystals. You trade a good item for a "overpowered move or a Hax item"?
You can check the "highest skill of novice players for teambuild(Ironic Alert)", only checking the IV, EV and Nature of pokemons that they use in PvP.

what? it's not even about the items being "op", that's not even a valid argument as munya stated for discussing tier changes. 
it's about having a clear win & suddenly those item's prevent you from having that win, when anyone taking competitive seriously would be rather titled, regardless of their ELO you moron. there's a borderline difference between accepted/expected RNG and these items. learn the damn difference.
 

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Check all things i talked in every post before. Check the text by complete:

Note, if you check one part with the word "Translated/Traduçao", only skip for the next line of "======". this is only part of text, translated.

If you think that something is overpowered,just because is the RNG counter of your team, you can't say that you know teambuild.

First: Calculate the Win rate of strategys.
Second: Look for possible counters and "checks"
Third: If this is your difficult to win with your copypasted teams and sets, Read first and Second step. and adapt our team. I reccomend you go to Casual plays to test your new strategy.

Example:


If you have trouble with Physical Walls and Cloyster, try to adapt our team to receive a special infernape. the set? try to search. The result: Physical walls certainly don't have trained some Special Defense, or your base stat special defense is low. With a special move, the chance of Hit Kill is high. And for cloyster, to him flinch, if he haves a king's rock, need to use ice shard, that only hit 1 time,10% flinch, or Rock Blast/Icicle spear, 50% flinch. And if you use Vaccum Wave? Well, or he faint without cause any trouble, or use ice shard and count with a 10% flinch chance

"Physical walls certainly don't have trained some Special Defense, or your base stat special defense is low." - One example is Skarmory, Tank every physical move, but... Your special defense is low, the only thing that prevent him from take OHKO is your ability Sturdy. Nothing than a Mold Breaker pokemon doesn't stop
"And for cloyster, to him flinch, if he haves a king's rock, need to use ice shard, that only hit 1 time,10% flinch, or Rock Blast/Icicle spear, 50% flinch. " - For this reason, cloyster is better focus sash. The special defense of him is low, after shell smash? A special lucario doesn't have any trouble to faint him. A special Infernape counts with 10% flinch if cloyster try to use ice shard, but if he use any other move, it is Over to cloyster.

I talked for a example, this is more cases from our Unique Pokemmo PvP. 
Aim for a Better PokeMMO for all!

======================================
Pros portugueses que não entenderam, tradução:
"Walls Fisicos certamente não tem uma defesa special bem treinada, ou sua stat base de Defesa Special é baixa" - Um exemplo é Skarmory, ele tanka qualquer move fisico, mas... Sua defesa especial é tão Ridicula que só o sturdy pra não deixa-lo tomar OHKO. Nada que um pokemon de Mold Breaker não resolva
"Para um Cloyster flinchar o oponente, se ele tiver a king's rock, ou usa ice shard(que acerta 1 vez, então a chance é 10% de Flinchar) ou Rock Blast/Icicle Spear(Acertam 5 vezes, então a chance é ate 50% de Flinchar)" - Por esse motivo, cloyster é melhor Focus Sash. A special defense dele já é baixa, depois do shell smash então? Lucario com set special não tem problema nenhum em dar o OHKO nele. Infernape com Set special, o que pode parar ele é a 10% de chance flinch do ice shard, que não causa nada de dano no infernape. Se o cloyster não ir de Ice Shard no infernape e tiver de king's rock, só aceita que ele tá morto.

Eu apenas citei um Exemplo, tem mais casos do nosso Meta Unico de PvP no PokeMMO
Alvejando um PokeMMO melhor pra todos!

================================
The example that can Help you, and everyone that are reading this. If you or any other player don't want to apply in our team, the choice is yours. but don't come here to talk to rookies in pvp, who is "OverPowered" and impossible to counter, because we return here to remove your lie, telling good ways to counter.

Like Cloyster and Weavile King's rock.
1° - You can't check with precision the win rate of players that use it, or the number of loss then strategy have.
2° - Is oblivious that walls suffer with RNG flinch, but offense with good priority moves lock the choice of opponent, in moves of 10% chance. If you flinch 3 times in a row, you can forfeit.
3° - Some players that argument that item is overpowered and unhealty for pvp, but use 3, 4 or 5(Huargensy) walls. Is not healty play against that, if you don't have the counter, resulting in long and exaustive matchs

4° - All players are complety free to choice which pokemons use. We only have to guide the best sets for pokemons that he want to use. If players want to use Castform, he can use. If he want to use a sand team, he can use. But if you want to make a team, think before if your strategy is healty to opponent, that don't make him forfeit for PvP. Fair Play with your opponent. Play with stall, you like, good , but you, people that reading this and use stall, stop to think if your opponent like face stall? if exaustive and long matchs due to you, people that reading this and use stall, kept tanking all match , is healty to your opponent?


 

===========================
Translated Text/Texto traduzido:
Eu citei um exemplo que pode te ajudar, e todos que estão lendo isso. Se você ou qualquer outro jogador não quiser adaptar o time, a escolha é sua, mas não venha aqui pra falar pros novatos em pvp, o que é "OP" e impossivel de counterar, pois a gente vai voltar pra desmentir e falar bons jeitos de lidar com as estrategias "OP".

Como Cloyster e Weavile King's rock.
1° - Você não pode checar com precisão a taxa de vitorias dos players que usam a estrategia, ou o numero de derrotas que a estrategia tem.
2° - É obvio que wall sofre com RNG flinch, wall é pra ficar tankando, não atacar diretamente. Os pokes ofensivos com bons golpes prioritarios travam a escolha do oponente em moves que só tem 10% de causar flinch, se der flinch 3 vezes, pode desistir.

3 °- Alguns jogadores argumentam que o item é op e não é saudavel para o pvp, mas usam times de 3, 4 ou 5 (Huargensy) walls. Não é saudavel jogar contra isso, se você não tiver o counter, resultando em partidas longas e exaustivas.

 4 ° - Todos os jogadores são completamente livres pra escolher com que pokemon querem jogar. Só devemos mostrar os melhores sets dos pokes que o cara escolheu. Se o cara quer usar Castform, ele pode usar. Se o cara quiser usar time sand, ele pode usar. Mas antes de montar o seu time, pense se sua estrategia é saudavel pro oponente, que não faça ele desistir do PvP. Jogo justo, Fair Play, com seu oponente. Se você que está lendo, gosta de usar stall, beleza, mas já pensou se seu oponente gosta de enfrentar stall? se as partidas longas e massantes, que você ,que usa stall, provoca, são saudaveis para seu oponente?
============================
Not all of players likes to play a 100+ matchs. I sayed before, if placed a balancing system, to equilibrate the opponent's matchmaking level that you face, i no need to talk here. But, don't have and Novice players that play casually and don't like to spend 1 hour in matchs, face a Top 10 player, with a stall team, and, clearly, he loses.
if you think that king's rock is op, reach with only that in at least top 10 matchmaking rank.

This is only a strategy common used by 450- elo players, and the same strategy only win with RNG some walls. Like Obelisk members sayed to me once time: players that used hax itens for a long time actually are in 450- elo, without chance of grow up your elo and go up in ranks.

I in time that used cloyster, NEVER used king's rock. King's rock and Hax itens are like z-crystals. You trade a good item for a "overpowered move or a Hax item"?
You can check the "highest skill of 450- elo players for teambuild(Ironic Alert)", only checking the IV, EV and Nature of pokemons that they use in PvP

This is only a strategy common used by 450- elo players, i forgot to mention, No fear for offense teams, and with a usage below the critery adopted by "Veteran Players" to say who is usable and who isn't in pvp. Is inside 1,22(Calc before, win rate of Cloyster king's rock)-7(Win rate of king's rock cloyster + all loses of cloyster)%, and the critery of your says: to be usable in PvP, need at least 8% usage

------------------------------------------

Most part of players talk me is a not-skill player that don't know anything in teambuild. Let i informate that i fight in 460-500 elo because i face 3-5 "balanced"/stall teams per day, but i fight for big things, like the best trophy to a consistent campain in matchmaking, using a modest Hyper Offense team, i Faced and win 2 Rank Veteran Players and the Top Rank 74(At least which i battle with him) Bluedeww,  and i don't stop, winning more matchs, i finally received a Reward PvP Pokemon. This is hard to obtain. Players that are in my actual rank that don't even reached Veteran rank, don't have too much rewards of PvP.

Edited by caioxlive13
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32 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

 

Check all things i talked in every post before. Check the text by complete:

Note, if you check one part with the word "Translated/Traduçao", only skip for the next line of "======". this is only part of text, translated.

If you think that something is overpowered,just because is the RNG counter of your team, you can't say that you know teambuild.

First: Calculate the Win rate of strategys.
Second: Look for possible counters and "checks"
Third: If this is your difficult to win with your copypasted teams and sets, Read first and Second step. and adapt our team. I reccomend you go to Casual plays to test your new strategy.

Example:


If you have trouble with Physical Walls and Cloyster, try to adapt our team to receive a special infernape. the set? try to search. The result: Physical walls certainly don't have trained some Special Defense, or your base stat special defense is low. With a special move, the chance of Hit Kill is high. And for cloyster, to him flinch, if he haves a king's rock, need to use ice shard, that only hit 1 time,10% flinch, or Rock Blast/Icicle spear, 50% flinch. And if you use Vaccum Wave? Well, or he faint without cause any trouble, or use ice shard and count with a 10% flinch chance

"Physical walls certainly don't have trained some Special Defense, or your base stat special defense is low." - One example is Skarmory, Tank every physical move, but... Your special defense is low, the only thing that prevent him from take OHKO is your ability Sturdy. Nothing than a Mold Breaker pokemon doesn't stop
"And for cloyster, to him flinch, if he haves a king's rock, need to use ice shard, that only hit 1 time,10% flinch, or Rock Blast/Icicle spear, 50% flinch. " - For this reason, cloyster is better focus sash. The special defense of him is low, after shell smash? A special lucario doesn't have any trouble to faint him. A special Infernape counts with 10% flinch if cloyster try to use ice shard, but if he use any other move, it is Over to cloyster.

I talked for a example, this is more cases from our Unique Pokemmo PvP. 
Aim for a Better PokeMMO for all!

======================================
Pros portugueses que não entenderam, tradução:
"Walls Fisicos certamente não tem uma defesa special bem treinada, ou sua stat base de Defesa Special é baixa" - Um exemplo é Skarmory, ele tanka qualquer move fisico, mas... Sua defesa especial é tão Ridicula que só o sturdy pra não deixa-lo tomar OHKO. Nada que um pokemon de Mold Breaker não resolva
"Para um Cloyster flinchar o oponente, se ele tiver a king's rock, ou usa ice shard(que acerta 1 vez, então a chance é 10% de Flinchar) ou Rock Blast/Icicle Spear(Acertam 5 vezes, então a chance é ate 50% de Flinchar)" - Por esse motivo, cloyster é melhor Focus Sash. A special defense dele já é baixa, depois do shell smash então? Lucario com set special não tem problema nenhum em dar o OHKO nele. Infernape com Set special, o que pode parar ele é a 10% de chance flinch do ice shard, que não causa nada de dano no infernape. Se o cloyster não ir de Ice Shard no infernape e tiver de king's rock, só aceita que ele tá morto.

Eu apenas citei um Exemplo, tem mais casos do nosso Meta Unico de PvP no PokeMMO
Alvejando um PokeMMO melhor pra todos!

================================
The example that can Help you, and everyone that are reading this. If you or any other player don't want to apply in our team, the choice is yours. but don't come here to talk to rookies in pvp, who is "OverPowered" and impossible to counter, because we return here to remove your lie, telling good ways to counter.

Like Cloyster and Weavile King's rock.
1° - You can't check with precision the win rate of players that use it, or the number of loss then strategy have.
2° - Is oblivious that walls suffer with RNG flinch, but offense with good priority moves lock the choice of opponent, in moves of 10% chance. If you flinch 3 times in a row, you can forfeit.
3° - Some players that argument that item is overpowered and unhealty for pvp, but use 3, 4 or 5(Huargensy) walls. Is not healty play against that, if you don't have the counter, resulting in long and exaustive matchs

4° - All players are complety free to choice which pokemons use. We only have to guide the best sets for pokemons that he want to use. If players want to use Castform, he can use. If he want to use a sand team, he can use. But if you want to make a team, think before if your strategy is healty to opponent, that don't make him forfeit for PvP. Fair Play with your opponent. Play with stall, you like, good , but you, people that reading this and use stall, stop to think if your opponent like face stall? if exaustive and long matchs due to you, people that reading this and use stall, kept tanking all match , is healty to your opponent?


 

===========================
Translated Text/Texto traduzido:
Eu citei um exemplo que pode te ajudar, e todos que estão lendo isso. Se você ou qualquer outro jogador não quiser adaptar o time, a escolha é sua, mas não venha aqui pra falar pros novatos em pvp, o que é "OP" e impossivel de counterar, pois a gente vai voltar pra desmentir e falar bons jeitos de lidar com as estrategias "OP".

Como Cloyster e Weavile King's rock.
1° - Você não pode checar com precisão a taxa de vitorias dos players que usam a estrategia, ou o numero de derrotas que a estrategia tem.
2° - É obvio que wall sofre com RNG flinch, wall é pra ficar tankando, não atacar diretamente. Os pokes ofensivos com bons golpes prioritarios travam a escolha do oponente em moves que só tem 10% de causar flinch, se der flinch 3 vezes, pode desistir.

3 °- Alguns jogadores argumentam que o item é op e não é saudavel para o pvp, mas usam times de 3, 4 ou 5 (Huargensy) walls. Não é saudavel jogar contra isso, se você não tiver o counter, resultando em partidas longas e exaustivas.

 4 ° - Todos os jogadores são completamente livres pra escolher com que pokemon querem jogar. Só devemos mostrar os melhores sets dos pokes que o cara escolheu. Se o cara quer usar Castform, ele pode usar. Se o cara quiser usar time sand, ele pode usar. Mas antes de montar o seu time, pense se sua estrategia é saudavel pro oponente, que não faça ele desistir do PvP. Jogo justo, Fair Play, com seu oponente. Se você que está lendo, gosta de usar stall, beleza, mas já pensou se seu oponente gosta de enfrentar stall? se as partidas longas e massantes, que você ,que usa stall, provoca, são saudaveis para seu oponente?
============================
Not all of players likes to play a 100+ matchs. I sayed before, if placed a balancing system, to equilibrate the opponent's matchmaking level that you face, i no need to talk here. But, don't have and Novice players that play casually and don't like to spend 1 hour in matchs, face a Top 10 player, with a stall team, and, clearly, he loses.
if you think that king's rock is op, reach with only that in at least top 10 matchmaking rank.

This is only a strategy common used by 450- elo players, and the same strategy only win with RNG some walls. Like Obelisk members sayed to me once time: players that used hax itens for a long time actually are in 450- elo, without chance of grow up your elo and go up in ranks.

I in time that used cloyster, NEVER used king's rock. King's rock and Hax itens are like z-crystals. You trade a good item for a "overpowered move or a Hax item"?
You can check the "highest skill of 450- elo players for teambuild(Ironic Alert)", only checking the IV, EV and Nature of pokemons that they use in PvP

This is only a strategy common used by 450- elo players, i forgot to mention, No fear for offense teams, and with a usage below the critery adopted by "Veteran Players" to say who is usable and who isn't in pvp. Is inside 1,22(Calc before, win rate of Cloyster king's rock)-7(Win rate of king's rock cloyster + all loses of cloyster)%, and the critery of your says: to be usable in PvP, need at least 8% usage

------------------------------------------

Most part of players talk me is a not-skill player that don't know anything in teambuild. Let i informate that i fight in 460-500 elo because i face 3-5 "balanced"/stall teams per day, but i fight for big things, like the best trophy to a consistent campain in matchmaking, using a modest Hyper Offense team, i Faced and win 2 Rank Veteran Players and the Top Rank 74(At least which i battle with him) Bluedeww,  and i don't stop, winning more matchs, i finally received a Reward PvP Pokemon. This is hard to obtain. Players that are in my actual rank that don't even reached Veteran rank, don't have too much rewards of PvP.

So after all the shizzle you wrote here you are telling us that you are below 500 elo and struggle to get the pvp reward? Maybe you should consider learning the basics before you start trash talking. As Kupo stated some of the best players on the server are trying to educate you consider listening and learning bro

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so my comment got deleted so I'll make it relevant while saying it again.
you just compared a legitimate playstyle to your argument while thinking a reward pokemon is a big accomplishment and again thinking you're top shit, which I'll point out anyone can get that within a day's work, maybe less depending on factors. 

You realise that one statement literally counters what you say in another statement?

How can you know what sets the highest ladder players use (like that even matters because a rank doesn't actually determine how good someone is, especially if they switched tiers for the season or returning etc) while rambling nonsense about how walls are unfair gameplay and that they suffer to rng? whaaat. Just play Hyper Offensive if you dislike a playstyle that much, and moving further on about "reward pokemon" that's not a accomplishment, maybe for a new player but literally anyone that knows the meta can get them with little effort.

 

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This entire thread, the reason I haven't responded here is because it has been responded to before, in at least 2 places, one by a dev one by myself.  One such post is here:

If you like or don't like the first step they have chosen to take thats fine, I can see why some people would not think it is enough, and it may not be, either way, plans are to do something with these items so I personally felt like this topic was settled, I don't think theres much of a need for this back and forth here anymore.

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3 hours ago, Munya said:

 

either way, plans are to do something with these items

I do like that kind of response a lot. Any clues when we could expect those changes? 

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13 hours ago, CaptnBaklava said:

So after all the shizzle you wrote here you are telling us that you are below 500 elo and struggle to get the pvp reward? Maybe you should consider learning the basics before you start trash talking. As Kupo stated some of the best players on the server are trying to educate you consider listening and learning bro

i don't play too much in pvp like I played when I win the reward pvp
At least above 450 elo i kept, and i don't fight to go to profesional rank.

 

If you can't see that is more common to fight against players with they using hax itens in low rank, that a Veteran/Top Rank use hax itens, then this game really need a balancing pvp, to players that are in high ladders fight against players that are one rank above or below or in the same rank that him.

The ranks:
Top Rank 
Veteran
Professional
Trainer 
Novice Trainers

With this, we don't have more trouble with OverPowered itens, since it is overpowered, the player reach in High rank easy, and if don't be overpowered, the players that use it kept in Low Ranks

Edited by caioxlive13
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Yeah...

I think the odds of hitting a flinch on a skill link cloyster are just too high.

if it was just 10% flinch, at the cost of your held item slot, well, that's not so bad to deal with.

the problem is that it stacks with skill link up to a whopping 41%, for free, without downsides.

thunderwave costs a whole turn, and can miss, and has immunities.

snowcloak requires weather, etc.

not to mention you still get icicle spear's tremendous 5-hit damage off, on top of the flinch chance.

 

it's basically the strongest hax in the game at no cost. ie it's broken.

 

if you dont wanna ban kings rock, just break the kingsrock / skill link synergy, the issue will fix itself that way too

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2 hours ago, Eggplant said:

Yeah...

I think the odds of hitting a flinch on a skill link cloyster are just too high.

if it was just 10% flinch, at the cost of your held item slot, well, that's not so bad to deal with.

the problem is that it stacks with skill link up to a whopping 41%, for free, without downsides.

thunderwave costs a whole turn, and can miss, and has immunities.

snowcloak requires weather, etc.

not to mention you still get icicle spear's tremendous 5-hit damage off, on top of the flinch chance.

 

it's basically the strongest hax in the game at no cost. ie it's broken.

 

if you dont wanna ban kings rock, just break the kingsrock / skill link synergy, the issue will fix itself that way too

The problem of strategy: To cloyster king's rock work, need to set up shell smash.
And, the highest and Overpowered (Ironic Alert) 45 Sp. def "doesn't matter".
Is obvilious that wall group(Defense Pivot, Wall, Tank, etc...) has trouble with RNG flinch. But, don't Exist a priority move that have the multi-hit. Is only one chance of 10%, and need to be too unlucky to flinch your pokemon 3 times in a row.
Who is the point which i want to reach? is one: All Best King's rock users have one of our defenses low.  
Wealive, has 65 Defense Base stat
Cloyster, Have 45 Sp Def base stat.
And cloyster low your both defenses after set up shell smash.
Only need to attack with a Priority Move in Weaker Defense of pokemon, using offense pokemon. Your best choice is Infernape and Lucario. If you don't want to put in your team, the choice is yours, the problems too

Edited by caioxlive13
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So my counterplay to not getting lucked to death is to use a low distribution priority move from two unsplashable mons and hope I don't get lucked to death by ice shard flinches on one.

The only reason walls are more likely to get flinched is because they are the only mons that may survive a 125 BP nuke from a Pokemon at +2 attack

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5 hours ago, suigin said:

So my counterplay to not getting lucked to death is to use a low distribution priority move from two unsplashable mons and hope I don't get lucked to death by ice shard flinches on one.

The only reason walls are more likely to get flinched is because they are the only mons that may survive a 125 BP nuke from a Pokemon at +2 attack

You can use some mons, that have forçe of OHKO a cloyster King's rock.
image.png
Lucario, is a Example. Ice Shard is a 31-36% damage, and if lucario has steadfast, the result is one of three:
- You don't flinch and kill with only one Vaccum Wave.
- You flinch one time and buff speed. Then, attack with vaccum wave and have speed to attack the next mon of opponent.
- You flinch 2 times, but... In 3° hit, he don't hit you. Because with 2 buffs, you pass in speed:
image.thumb.png.814c0682c3be2c717cc32ec1e911eedc.png
and he lost in speed, Leaving even speed to the next mon, to make him only hitting you, if you don't KO'em.

Now, Calc with Infernape.
image.thumb.png.9dc69817c201852f6186d16fd8fcd7d2.png
Need to be Too unlucky to Have 4 Flinch in a row, but if you have this luck, I reccomend you to get of pvp for 1 week.

And again, Vaccum Wave OHKO.

Remember: In first and Second Example, you see something?
I answer for you: One of Moves can OHKO your pokemon, and if have the focus sash, he OHKO with this move. 

 

 

Why i only talked about ice shard and don't against other moves?
- Because the risk of Priority Moves, he are locked in Ice Shard. if try to use Any other moves, he is easily fainted. If are to faint, faint Attacking!

image.png

Edited by caioxlive13
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20 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

You can use some mons, that have forçe of OHKO a cloyster King's rock.
image.png
Lucario, is a Example. Ice Shard is a 31-36% damage, and if lucario has steadfast, the result is one of three:
- You don't flinch and kill with only one Vaccum Wave.
- You flinch one time and buff speed. Then, attack with vaccum wave and have speed to attack the next mon of opponent.
- You flinch 2 times, but... In 3° hit, he don't hit you. Because with 2 buffs, you pass in speed:
image.thumb.png.814c0682c3be2c717cc32ec1e911eedc.png
and he lost in speed, Leaving even speed to the next mon, to make him only hitting you, if you don't KO'em.

Now, Calc with Infernape.
image.thumb.png.9dc69817c201852f6186d16fd8fcd7d2.png
Need to be Too unlucky to Have 4 Flinch in a row, but if you have this luck, I reccomend you to get of pvp for 1 week.

And again, Vaccum Wave OHKO.

Remember: In first and Second Example, you see something?
I answer for you: One of Moves can OHKO your pokemon, and if have the focus sash, he OHKO with this move. 

 

 

image.png


WTF? ... boi how much time you were playing this game? so do you switch to infernape and he wont die?

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 125-150 (82.7 - 99.3%) -- approx. 2HKO (When switch)

and if you gonna try to vacuum wave it

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 40-48 (26.4 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 

also lucario steadfast instead of inner focus? Inner focus means lucario can't be flinched

there is not a solid way excepting of lucario INNER FOCUS to kill cloyster king rock after boost, with no sacrifice a pokemon.

Edited by clayclover
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44 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

You can use some mons, that have forçe of OHKO a cloyster King's rock.
image.png
Lucario, is a Example. Ice Shard is a 31-36% damage, and if lucario has steadfast, the result is one of three:
- You don't flinch and kill with only one Vaccum Wave.
- You flinch one time and buff speed. Then, attack with vaccum wave and have speed to attack the next mon of opponent.
- You flinch 2 times, but... In 3° hit, he don't hit you. Because with 2 buffs, you pass in speed:
image.thumb.png.814c0682c3be2c717cc32ec1e911eedc.png
and he lost in speed, Leaving even speed to the next mon, to make him only hitting you, if you don't KO'em.

Now, Calc with Infernape.
image.thumb.png.9dc69817c201852f6186d16fd8fcd7d2.png
Need to be Too unlucky to Have 4 Flinch in a row, but if you have this luck, I reccomend you to get of pvp for 1 week.

And again, Vaccum Wave OHKO.

Remember: In first and Second Example, you see something?
I answer for you: One of Moves can OHKO your pokemon, and if have the focus sash, he OHKO with this move. 

 

 

Why i only talked about ice shard and don't against other moves?
- Because the risk of Priority Moves, he are locked in Ice Shard. if try to use Any other moves, he is easily fainted. If are to faint, faint Attacking!

image.png

So gotcha, my counterplay is just "don't be unlucky"

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Right, just 2 games. 

just because i'm bored and this team is full trash.  yet you wanna tell us to use priority to avoid & just get lucky? how in hell do you fight this. (i'm literally disgusted with myself but to set a example)

this is a GOD DAMN AMBIPOM! 

First game - e09f4a874780ccb0d33e702792662f34.png


Second Game - dbe2985bbc7df029080337b54c75bdf7.png


                  93a9a1a61e4a3ec8b76a748da25a2d82.png

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6 hours ago, Kupokun said:

Right, just 2 games. 

just because i'm bored and this team is full trash.  yet you wanna tell us to use priority to avoid & just get lucky? how in hell do you fight this. (i'm literally disgusted with myself but to set a example)

this is a GOD DAMN AMBIPOM! 

First game - e09f4a874780ccb0d33e702792662f34.png


Second Game - dbe2985bbc7df029080337b54c75bdf7.png


                  93a9a1a61e4a3ec8b76a748da25a2d82.png

It looks like you out-skilled your opponent imo, well deserved W

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Lets ignore the fact it has already been stated several times now something is happening with all of these items.

 

A snipet of logs is irrelevant, anybody could take a small section of their battle logs and make anything look bad.  You're better off finding a replay and pointing towards it as they give a full picture and not a snapshot of a brief moment in time.

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22 minutes ago, Munya said:

Lets ignore the fact it has already been stated several times now something is happening with all of these items.

 

A snipet of logs is irrelevant, anybody could take a small section of their battle logs and make anything look bad.  You're better off finding a replay and pointing towards it as they give a full picture and not a snapshot of a brief moment in time.

The problem with finding a replay is the fact, that you cannot share a replay from matchmaking. More experienced, skilled players who play in tournaments prefer to rely on their skills so we won't have many replays from tournaments to further proof of how idiotic those items are (although I do agree that the small snip of the battle logs isn't proof enough).

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9 hours ago, Kupokun said:

Right, just 2 games. 

just because i'm bored and this team is full trash.  yet you wanna tell us to use priority to avoid & just get lucky? how in hell do you fight this. (i'm literally disgusted with myself but to set a example)

this is a GOD DAMN AMBIPOM! 

First game - e09f4a874780ccb0d33e702792662f34.png


Second Game - dbe2985bbc7df029080337b54c75bdf7.png


                  93a9a1a61e4a3ec8b76a748da25a2d82.png

And you wait less? Beat Up is a maximum of 60% finch, Togekiss Scarf have this flinch rate too.
And, you checked the elo of player that fight you? Ambipon is a Paper in Defense, and special defense.
Conkeldurr with a  quick claw is rare in people that are 550+ elo. Flame Orb or leftovers is more common.
And in First Game, RNG show to you that he don't help you in those day. Flinched With a beat up, and miss will-o-wisp?

Check Base stats:

Ambipon's Stat
image.png.f10255daedafe0f0db33458e49750c14.png

Your speed and Attack is decent, but he is Paper in Defense, Special Defense, and HP.

Now, Conkeldurr:

image.png.3cd20ee6a5991424e27228c0ae43477c.png

No comments, right? Conkeldurr is a Bulk pokemon in Physical Defense and Atk, and Have too much HP.
But, sp. def of him is Ridiculous. 65. A psychic attack that don't hit in Physical Defense(Psystrike, Psyshock and Psycho Cut), kill him easily.
And their speed is too low, a CASTFORM can pass him.

To you have a base, of conkeldurr's low sp. Def, chek one counter nape, and this is a Mixed Infernape, if are a special infernape that already use Nasty Plot, is a OHKO
image.thumb.png.5ea56d9b1695c91e5a0250b54e760811.png
(This set of conkeldurr is one random set from calc that i selected to demonstrate)

 

10 hours ago, clayclover said:

 


WTF? ... boi how much time you were playing this game? so do you switch to infernape and he wont die?

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 125-150 (82.7 - 99.3%) -- approx. 2HKO (When switch)

and if you gonna try to vacuum wave it

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 40-48 (26.4 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
 

also lucario steadfast instead of inner focus? Inner focus means lucario can't be flinched

there is not a solid way excepting of lucario INNER FOCUS to kill cloyster king rock after boost, with no sacrifice a pokemon.

If you place your infernape after one mon faint or in the same turn that your opponent use shell smash, he need to count with a miracle of flinch you 3 times in a row.
And, the results of lucario, i showed with a steadfast, if inner focus, cloyster are more f*** that he always are.  
And if your infernape has full life, and in field selecting attack, need to or missclick or be a complet stupid to no use vaccum wave/mach punch, the two priority moves, that infernape neeed to have at least one.
A little hint: Naive(Or nature that increase speed) Infernape Choice Scarf 31 IV 252 EV speed, only receive outspeed if cloyster, has jolly(Or any nature that increase speed) nature, full investiment in IV and EV in speed and used shell smash 

Edited by caioxlive13
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2 hours ago, Munya said:

Lets ignore the fact it has already been stated several times now something is happening with all of these items.

 

A snipet of logs is irrelevant, anybody could take a small section of their battle logs and make anything look bad.  You're better off finding a replay and pointing towards it as they give a full picture and not a snapshot of a brief moment in time.

Suggestion: Make King's Rock make the holder immune to flinches. Fanfic solution but who cares at this point.

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2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

And you wait less? Beat Up is a maximum of 60% finch, Togekiss Scarf have this flinch rate too.
And, you checked the elo of player that fight you? Ambipon is a Paper in Defense, and special defense.
Conkeldurr with a  quick claw is rare in people that are 550+ elo. Flame Orb or leftovers is more common.
And in First Game, RNG show to you that he don't help you in those day. Flinched With a beat up, and miss will-o-wisp?

Check Base stats:

Ambipon's Stat
image.png.f10255daedafe0f0db33458e49750c14.png

Your speed and Attack is decent, but he is Paper in Defense, Special Defense, and HP.

Now, Conkeldurr:

image.png.3cd20ee6a5991424e27228c0ae43477c.png

No comments, right? Conkeldurr is a Bulk pokemon in Physical Defense and Atk, and Have too much HP.
But, sp. def of him is Ridiculous. 65. A psychic attack that don't hit in Physical Defense(Psystrike, Psyshock and Psycho Cut), kill him easily.
And their speed is too low, a CASTFORM can pass him.

To you have a base, of conkeldurr's low sp. Def, chek one counter nape, and this is a Mixed Infernape, if are a special infernape that already use Nasty Plot, is a OHKO
image.thumb.png.5ea56d9b1695c91e5a0250b54e760811.png
(This set of conkeldurr is one random set from calc that i selected to demonstrate)

 

If you place your infernape after one mon faint or in the same turn that your opponent use shell smash, he need to count with a miracle of flinch you 3 times in a row.
And, the results of lucario, i showed with a steadfast, if inner focus, cloyster are more f*** that he always are.  
And if your infernape has full life, and in field selecting attack, need to or missclick or be a complet stupid to no use vaccum wave/mach punch, the two priority moves, that infernape neeed to have at least one.
A little hint: Naive(Or nature that increase speed) Infernape Choice Scarf 31 IV 252 EV speed, only receive outspeed if cloyster, has jolly(Or any nature that increase speed) nature, full investiment in IV and EV in speed and used shell smash 

It is still ridiculous, according to you we must use infer or lucario necessarily so as not to suffer from cloyster, and then you say that everyone is free to wear what they want, in short, idiocy

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1 minute ago, Huargensy said:

It is still ridiculous, according to you we must use infer or lucario necessarily so as not to suffer from cloyster, and then you say that everyone is free to wear what they want, in short, idiocy

In all time i SUGGEST players to use. If you are "good enough" and don't want to adapt our team, the choice is yours.

 

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2 hours ago, JorgeFirebolt said:

Rip togekiss

Words of New CM DeusBruno: 
I don't think it is Healty, but if are in game, and don't are a bug, you're free to use

 

5 hours ago, Munya said:

Lets ignore the fact it has already been stated several times now something is happening with all of these items.

 

A snipet of logs is irrelevant, anybody could take a small section of their battle logs and make anything look bad.  You're better off finding a replay and pointing towards it as they give a full picture and not a snapshot of a brief moment in time.

Correct. But, unfortunately, Need to be lucky to found a cloyster king's rock in PvP and REC it. and, is a low chance, 6% in maximum. 

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3 hours ago, Huargensy said:

It is still ridiculous, according to you we must use infer or lucario necessarily so as not to suffer from cloyster, and then you say that everyone is free to wear what they want, in short, idiocy

Just give up Huar, ignore him. It's like talking to a wall. You're a 400elo nab that has no idea about the game in his eyes, despite the multitude of your competitive accolades. He lives in his own world, let him be.

At this point I honestly believe the discussion is pointless since we got a confirmation that changes are coming. What next should we focus on? 

I suggest Dugtrio or Quick Claw. 

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