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Ban king's rock from PvP


JorgeFirebolt

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There's no need to explain why, it's frustrating to play a PvP, be about to win, you still got a counter vs Cloyster, and then, from nowhere, when cloyster just sets up Shell smash, tada, you get flinched!

 

It's literally one of the most unhealthy PvP items. For those who say that "King's rock is ok 'cause paraflinch exist eksdee", paraflinch can be stopped by lots of things like natural cure users, electric types, or heal bell cleric users, while king's rock cloyster is just a spammy unhealthy mon with no solid counter if boosted and flinch is done to it's counter.

 

It's not healthy to have a broken wallbreaker such as Cloyster with a 41% to flinch it's enemy and a 10% on each move. I bet I'm not the only one who was having a good match, close to win, then king's rock cloyster comes from nowhere and flinches the pokemon that can stop him. (Example: Magnezone, reuniclus, metagross, chansey/blissey at full health, cofagrigus, etc...)

 

Just ban it, it's the most unhealthy thing you can see on this PvP metagame. I'm open to any against argument and to answer them.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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8 hours ago, CREELAST said:

I do not understand why you quote my comment and mention things about the king's rock, which I have not touched on in that post, I honestly find the sense there, I never talked about the flich, or anything like that, maybe you got confused at the time of citing the comment, mine talks about how annoying it is the games with 6 walls, no king's rock XD

Ooops it was to the other guy, mb there.

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On 7/4/2021 at 5:59 PM, CREELAST said:

"On the same note, winrate also doesn't necessarily correlate to the length of the games. What does correlate is the way teams are built."
This is very true, but I think we knew it xdd

 

Well, I understand what you are saying, but I never said that my games are long, is not it, what I hate the most are the games of 100+ turns. My games are usually short, like yours, I usually use offensive or "offensive / balanced" teams (with about 2 walls), I use several teams since playing with one would bore me, like anyone else, I use 2 offensive rain teams ( (with which I really enjoy because the game is defined in the first turns, at full predits)), I also have a stall team (with 2 walls) ((it is not necessary to carry 6 walls for the stall to be effective)), a "" balanced "" team with 3 walls ((which gives me good results)). You understand what I'm about, my games do not last long, generally less than 10 or 15 minutes, the problem is when I find one of these with 6 walls, there is the dilemma, as I said in a previous post, this is not It usually happens often, but when it happens it is annoying, it is that simple, I need to clarify, that it is not in the plan "I have one with 6 walls and I automatically say in my thoughts, I already lost" that does not happen, I try to win, Like everyone else, and when trying to win against one of those guys, the game usually lengthens, ONLY IN THESE CASES THE GAME IS LONGERED, but as I said, little happens to me, but that does not remove how annoying it can be.
And you didn't answer what I asked you before, would you like a more frenzied goal? a meta based on predits, specific ev training, surprising mov sets, use of objects for specific situations, such as berries, etc. ((In my opinion it shows the experience and skill of player and when I refer to the "skill" I mean the predits ((that is pure skills)) Would you like a goal like that? Or maybe you would like more to be with your chansey in front of another wall on turn 128, and both of you spending the pp to see who wins the game. Ehhh? xD

 

Edit. ((I don't know how many times I've said this but hey XDD))


I add something important, when one of these players is my turn ((and when I say "me" I do not only mean me but also the other players who are bothered by this)), I do not always lose obviously, it is difficult, but to Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose against these players, BUT I don't mind losing or it doesn't matter much to me winning, it bothers me that the other boy lengthens the game to 100+, having finished my sporify playlist and I'm still on that duel) THAT IS WHAT ANNOIES ME AND WHAT ANNOIES MOST OF THE PLAYERS, IT IS NOT THE FACT OF LOSING OR WINNING, when I win someone and the game I feel that it has been good, I tell him that it was a good game , the same when I lose, if the other completely dominated me in the game, hey I tell him GG, the same if the game was even, the point is I like healthy games ((for me it is not healthy to be 100 turns in a only game)), your life is going away in a game, this is not a battlefield game, there I do go in waiting that each game lasts 30 - 40 minutes, you understand me, right?

Correct, like i sayed:
 

On 7/4/2021 at 1:42 PM, caioxlive13 said:

If want to "equilibrate", make players only face oponents that are in same rank that you, one rank above or below you, example: Professional Players: Can only face veteran players rank, professional trainer rank or trainer rank. Novice trainer Rank: Can only face trainer rank or novice trainer rank.

 

On 7/4/2021 at 1:45 PM, caioxlive13 said:

This end wall problem, once time that 6-wall team always have in high rank players, making the high rank match boring and low rank match more emocionant and relevant to assist.

people likes to assist 5-15 match minutes that 45-90 minutes match.
and people that play don't kept boring in matchmaking, to only face walls.

 

Matchs are boring for people that play and for people that assist, if equilibrate the matchup, players that use wall core in team, go up in rank fast, and novice players only face him, in season starts. That make novice players don't kept boring in matchs, and expert players don't ask a ban of "OverPowered" itens, that only novice players use, and only for excessive walls that today, he faces in 7/10 matchs, and they don't have a great team, are easily sweeped.
I talked before, to you, expert player, lose match for RNG is frustrating because a "overpowered item"(you don't leave your comfort zone and ask ban for potential wall counter), but for novice players, if don't flinch against a wall, the opponent use Toxic, and spam Recover move, winning easy.
Win kept tank until oponent forfeit or oponent don't have any PP, is too unhealty that win with RNG. Play depending of luck, in a meta that some wall core are too REALLY OP, is unhealty, but it is your only choice
I don't see any skill in tank all match, and i see skill in people that create , or try to create, strategys to surprise enemy, and make him thinking: How i lose to this? . If you that play with some core wall famous, and can't win because RNG flinch, leave your comfort zone and create something that players that win only tanking don't have: STRATEGY

 

On 7/5/2021 at 8:50 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Correct, like i sayed:
 

 

Matchs are boring for people that play and for people that assist, if equilibrate the matchup, players that use wall core in team, go up in rank fast, and novice players only face him, in season starts. That make novice players don't kept boring in matchs, and expert players don't ask a ban of "OverPowered" itens, that only novice players use, and only for excessive walls that today, he faces in 7/10 matchs, and they don't have a great team, are easily sweeped.
I talked before, to you, expert player, lose match for RNG is frustrating because a "overpowered item"(you don't leave your comfort zone and ask ban for potential wall counter), but for novice players, if don't flinch against a wall, the opponent use Toxic, and spam Recover move, winning easy.
Win kept tank until oponent forfeit or oponent don't have any PP, is too unhealty that win with RNG. Play depending of luck, in a meta that some wall core are too REALLY OP, is unhealty, but it is your only choice
I don't see any skill in tank all match, and i see skill in people that create , or try to create, strategys to surprise enemy, and make him thinking: How i lose to this? . If you that play with some core wall famous, and can't win because RNG flinch, leave your comfort zone and create something that players that win only tanking don't have: STRATEGY

And, i repeat, usage is not a doccument. " Potential Counter for cloyster king's rock is below 5% usage ".
Venusaur is a good pokemon in NU, and some players use it in OU and work.
Smeargle is a Untiered Pokemon. Some players used it in OU, and work.
Haxorus and Darmanitan, players use it in OU, and they are UUBL and Work.
Swampert and Electrode are UU today, but are used in OU, and Worked!
all of him are low usage in OU, and worked with the correct strategy.

They are bad pokemons in OU? or players that like to win matchs in Tanking/forfeit don't know who is a STRATEGY and can't adapt to put in our copypasted teams , something called OFFENSE POKEMON

Edited by caioxlive13
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3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

cloyster king's rock is below 5% usage

bro, you're completely wrong, about everything you said in this topic, keep writing, it doesn't change anything and it will never change anything because you're wrong.
image.png.8e9408d0f91c051f4667500233acba1e.png

its like, you have a chess table.

90% of people doesn't know how to use the horse (the stall, in this case.)

90% of people loses against a good horse's user (the stall, in this case.)

and 10% of people destroy noobs with the horses.

you see people changing the horses or making rules to not use them? NO. Because its part of the game.

Examples like this I can give you lots of them, you know why ? because there's a lot of games harder to play more than PokeMMO and the meta here, and complaining about stall is at least to me, ridiculous when you got bunch of ways to stop them while being a newbie. Compared to League of Legends! for example this game is nothing difficult.

This topic was created because the items are completely unfair, and for good reason, the tops between tops are losing and winning against this, as you can see in the screenshot that I just gave you because it seems like you don't know much about the current state of the duels in that area, abusing of this item for obvious reasons.

As I said, keep writing.

If you really want to do something make a vote thread so I can go and touch the dislike button and so the community will do the same, because you're wrong.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/6/2021 at 2:38 AM, ZeknShooter said:

bro, you're completely wrong, about everything you said in this topic, keep writing, it doesn't change anything and it will never change anything because you're wrong.
image.png.8e9408d0f91c051f4667500233acba1e.png

its like, you have a chess table.

90% of people doesn't know how to use the horse (the stall, in this case.)

90% of people loses against a good horse's user (the stall, in this case.)

and 10% of people destroy noobs with the horses.

you see people changing the horses or making rules to not use them? NO. Because its part of the game.

Examples like this I can give you lots of them, you know why ? because there's a lot of games harder to play more than PokeMMO and the meta here, and complaining about stall is at least to me, ridiculous when you got bunch of ways to stop them while being a newbie. Compared to League of Legends! for example this game is nothing difficult.

This topic was created because the items are completely unfair, and for good reason, the tops between tops are losing and winning against this, as you can see in the screenshot that I just gave you because it seems like you don't know much about the current state of the duels in that area, abusing of this item for obvious reasons.

As I said, keep writing.

If you really want to do something make a vote thread so I can go and touch the dislike button and so the community will do the same, because you're wrong.

image.png.1ececf6a84ce90b70b0b5d7a48a1dc92.png
You'll now are manipulated text. I sayed POTENTIAL COUNTER FOR CLOYSTER KING'S ROCK IS BELOW 5% USAGE, the argument most used in this discussion, and the only for prove the strategy is really OverPowered. Read this first:

 

On 7/5/2021 at 11:25 PM, caioxlive13 said:

And, i repeat, usage is not a doccument. " Potential Counter for cloyster king's rock is below 5% usage ".
Venusaur is a good pokemon in NU, and some players use it in OU and work.
Smeargle is a Untiered Pokemon. Some players used it in OU, and work.
Haxorus and Darmanitan, players use it in OU, and they are UUBL and Work.
Swampert and Electrode are UU today, but are used in OU, and Worked!
all of him are low usage in OU, and worked with the correct strategy.

They are bad pokemons in OU? or players that like to win matchs in Tanking/forfeit don't know who is a STRATEGY and can't adapt to put in our copypasted teams , something called OFFENSE POKEMON

Here, i contraried the players that talk the counter for cloyster king's rock is low usage and are bad pokemon, talking about other low usage pokemon, that worked.
 

 

On 7/5/2021 at 10:50 PM, caioxlive13 said:

I talked before, to you, expert player, lose match for RNG is frustrating because a "overpowered item"(you don't leave your comfort zone and ask ban for potential wall counter), but for novice players, if don't flinch against a wall, the opponent use Toxic, and spam Recover move, winning easy.
Win kept tank until oponent forfeit or oponent don't have any PP, is too unhealty that win with RNG.

 

I talked here, you don't think about novice players that use that and depend of 50% flinch to win, because our Money are limited and he isn't farm to obtain more, for this reason, can't build a decent team.

 

Edited by caioxlive13
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5 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

you don't think about novice players that use that and depend of 50% flinch to win, because our Money are limited and he isn't farm to obtain more, for this reason, can't build a decent team.

No, Hahhahaha, so, because the new players are new players, the game need to change necessarily in a cheating/easywins/unfair ways for those who doesn't know how to play properly ? the games are not made for the players to 100% the game from minute 1 or win against anyone from minute 1 man.

the WORST games are made with: RNG and Pay to Win

This game contains a lot of RNG and 0 Pay to Win, and its getting worst and worst with the staff keeping available items that promote the RNG. if you think more RNG involved = more players enjoining you're getting trap in a substantial paradise where people enjoys a lot at theirs first weeks playing and then stop playing suddenly because they saw how all was made. no one does that this days.

On 7/4/2021 at 2:38 PM, caioxlive13 said:

lose 164 matchs for this, and win 104

And if, as you said, you was 104/164 that doesn't mean the game is bad and stall is broken, that means you:

- don't have a good team -doesn't have experience enough to play ranked -think the game is the problem and not you, etc.

AND if you think the game is made badly because the stall and king's rock balances it, how did i got so many wins against stall huh ? how did i topped 2 accounts playing less than lots of the people that played ?, how more people was capable of doing the same ?... My team was x6 Sweepers ALWAYS and WITHOUT KING'S ROCK. and were few times where I lost to stall, the majority of my losses was against Balanced. 

you will probably say: "because you know how to play"... my firsts months playing this game, years ago I already was in the top. you know why ? because this game is one of the easiest game's I ever played, at least for me.

compared to anything else this is super easy because the only thing you need to win in this game is to think and teambuild using your head.

in other games you need to use reflex, momentum, sudden strategies, etc. all at the same time while in this game the only thing to play better is to Study the game.

So, that's what I recommend to you bro, Study the game and do not come and try to ruin it because you don't know what's the real problem.

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Posted (edited)

you don't understand 

3 hours ago, ZeknShooter said:

 

No, Hahhahaha, so, because the new players are new players, the game need to change necessarily in a cheating/easywins/unfair ways for those who doesn't know how to play properly ? the games are not made for the players to 100% the game from minute 1 or win against anyone from minute 1 man.

the WORST games are made with: RNG and Pay to Win

This game contains a lot of RNG and 0 Pay to Win, and its getting worst and worst with the staff keeping available items that promote the RNG. if you think more RNG involved = more players enjoining you're getting trap in a substantial paradise where people enjoys a lot at theirs first weeks playing and then stop playing suddenly because they saw how all was made. no one does that this days.

And if, as you said, you was 104/164 that doesn't mean the game is bad and stall is broken, that means you:

- don't have a good team
-doesn't have experience enough to play ranked
-think the game is the problem and not you, etc.

AND if you think the game is made badly because the stall and king's rock balances it, how did i got so many wins against stall huh ? how did i topped 2 accounts playing less than lots of the people that played ?, how more people was capable of doing the same ?... My team was x6 Sweepers ALWAYS and WITHOUT KING'S ROCK. and were few times where I lost to stall, the majority of my losses was against Balanced. 

you will probably say: "because you know how to play"... my firsts months playing this game, years ago I already was in the top. you know why ? because this game is one of the easiest game's I ever played, at least for me.

compared to anything else this is super easy because the only thing you need to win in this game is to think and teambuild using your head.

in other games you need to use reflex, momentum, sudden strategies, etc. all at the same time while in this game the only thing to play better is to Study the game.

So, that's what I recommend to you bro, Study the game and do not come and try to ruin it because you don't know what's the real problem.

The problem isn't the king 's rock, this is RNG strategys, that comes with a consequence of a problem that youngro sayed in 1° page of this question: Excessive Walls.
And, you to don't fall into wall and lose in your start of pvp, you'll start pvp with a full ready team, or use another RNG strategys. 
Youngro sayed, Excessive walls come in, some core breaks all wallbreaks, and we know the preference of Tier Council, of "overpowered" strategys. RNG matchs is unhealty, but it is our only choice to counter it. And easy startegys can counter cloyster, like vaccum wave, a PRIORITY MOVE, that to cloyster flinch, cloyster need to use ice shard and only have 10% chance. And for king's rock cloyster work, we need a chance to use shell smash, and we can take OHKO, because don't have focus sash.

"- don't have a good team(If i don't have, i kept farming and not playing pvp)
-doesn't have experience enough to play ranked(i have a F**** pvp reward, Blissey 2x31 4x25 Bold.  if i don't have experience to play, i NEVER reached in one.)
-think the game is the problem and not you(First, check how much defense a chansey eviolite reach. Second, i see too much match in pvp, of the most variety of players. i see novice suffer with walls.)"
"easiest game's I ever played, at least for me. " At least for you, and for most part of players?

 

Edited by caioxlive13
50 Posts, HOLD IT FIREBOLT
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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2021 at 11:55 AM, razimove said:

why would they nerf something that is fine? How hard is it to understand that the problem lies in you, and your lack of basic teambuilding nuances 

Well, if you don't understand, i'm rich in pokemmo and easily test new strategys. But, Novice players use cloyster in matchmaking, to farm BP, remember: Legendary BP Farm is now garbage, don't give too much BP, and Battle Frontier is the hardest way to farm BP, need a high strike of wins to farm a lot of BP. Then , he farm bp and invest it to create your own competititve team. but, simple walls core can complety break team of they. And, now he find a way to counter it and you, and all players that defend ban from king's rock, ask a ban from him? A strategy that only a simple Vaccum Wave of a 90+ special atk fight pokemon counter it. I defend the novice players , and the nerf of walls cores to help players to kept playing pvp and help we to go up in ranks fast.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 2:48 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Well, if you don't understand, i'm rich in pokemmo and easily test new strategys. But, Novice players use cloyster in matchmaking, to farm BP, remember: Legendary BP Farm is now garbage, don't give too much BP, and Battle Frontier is the hardest way to farm BP, need a high strike of wins to farm a lot of BP. Then , he farm bp and invest it to create your own competititve team. but, simple walls core can complety break team of they. And, now he find a way to counter it and you, and all players that defend ban from king's rock, ask a ban from him? A strategy that only a simple Vaccum Wave of a 90+ special atk fight pokemon counter it. I defend the novice players , and the nerf of walls cores to help players to kept playing pvp and help we to go up in ranks fast.

this ban is useless, one time that Can't use King's rock and Focus Sash in same time.
Or he try flinch, or guarant a safe shell smash use.

 

 

On 7/8/2021 at 2:55 PM, caioxlive13 said:

this ban is useless, one time that Can't use King's rock and Focus Sash in same time.
Or he try flinch, or guarant a safe shell smash use.

 

let me contrary your arguments.
First: You don't have experience competitive.
This pokemon you need to win too much matchs to obtain one, and win match in pokemmo, isn't easy.
image.png.4a5a8dbfa9067fedc4bf5e69758aaf14.png
Second: King's rock is unhealty.

You use famous wall cores, win match because opponent run out of PP/he forfeit, loves 100+ turns matchs, and come here to talk who is unhealty and who isn't?

 

On 7/5/2021 at 9:25 PM, caioxlive13 said:

And, i repeat, usage is not a doccument. " Potential Counter for cloyster king's rock is below 5% usage ".
Venusaur is a good pokemon in NU, and some players use it in OU and work.
Smeargle is a Untiered Pokemon. Some players used it in OU, and work.
Haxorus and Darmanitan, players use it in OU, and they are UUBL and Work.
Swampert and Electrode are UU today, but are used in OU, and Worked!
all of him are low usage in OU, and worked with the correct strategy.

They are bad pokemons in OU? or players that like to win matchs in Tanking/forfeit don't know who is a STRATEGY and can't adapt to put in our copypasted teams , something called OFFENSE POKEMON

Third: The only counter for cloyster is 5% below usage.

- I talked in this post i quoted, about low usage pokemons that worked with STRATEGY.
- Cloyster is 8% usage, and king's rock cloyster isn't the prefer strategys. Players that play with cloyster , know that is better use Focus Sash instead of king's rock.

 

Edited by caioxlive13
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3 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

and the nerf of walls cores to help players to kept playing pvp and help we to go up in ranks fast.

I don't know if you know, but seasons ago the time limit was infinite time and was limited to 60minutes. the stall is already "nerfed" in time-relation, and as i proved to you before, from the very main 3 building cores (Stall, Balanced & HO) stall is the worst and the easiest to stop and there's a lots of way to do so if you know a little bit of teambuilding. Ok, they are good, stall win games. but Balanced and HO win more in comparison. Stall and theirs Pokemon's are not broken by any means, are fine.

 image.png.db15a04c9b19c61d56a5eb37c460a663.png

haha how funny, lets nerf eviolite because its broken!
bro you're a completely troll account, no jokes.

none of what you're saying will be done, ever.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ZeknShooter said:

I don't know if you know, but seasons ago the time limit was infinite time and was limited to 60minutes. the stall is already "nerfed" in time-relation, and as i proved to you before, from the very main 3 building cores (Stall, Balanced & HO) stall is the worst and the easiest to stop and there's a lots of way to do so if you know a little bit of teambuilding. Ok, they are good, stall win games. but Balanced and HO win more in comparison. Stall and theirs Pokemon's are not broken by any means, are fine.

 image.png.db15a04c9b19c61d56a5eb37c460a663.png

haha how funny, lets nerf eviolite because its broken!
bro you're a completely troll account, no jokes.

none of what you're saying will be done, ever.

Well, comparate. Chansey wins 51% of matchs, and he is a tank.
image.png.ef40251de18fc7b7b970dc978bb413d3.png
One volcarona have 16,24%. Oh my god, less sucess comparate to Chansey and Blissey
image.png.eecff98b30b449f8bd5af84b62301aa8.png
Rotom-Wash, according to matchmaking, a wall.
image.png.d41b353ec691d33d36740d876b9880c3.png
OMG, he have more sucess that Gengar and Volcarona.

Let's check win rate.

image.png.e4836d0ecbafc902d84227c163e40cf3.png
The best victory rate is from nidoqueen, a Never Used pokemon, but checking only pokemons that have 10% or more usage, Rotom-Wash Again.
See now? Walls are best checking Win Rate. And, where is the offense pokemon with more than 10% usage in this rank?
I tell you. the best "offense" is Magnezone, in 15° Position, checking 1° Page of OU statistics.
And where is thw scizor, the 2° most used in OU? a Offense? well, 25° Position, in front of him, have ELECTRODE, Exeggutor, and Ludicolo.
And garchomp, well , 20° Position. 
Cloyster, he are 50% or less win rate


 

Edited by caioxlive13
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Posted (edited)
On 7/8/2021 at 12:06 AM, caioxlive13 said:

you don't understand 

The problem isn't the king 's rock, this is RNG strategys, that comes with a consequence of a problem that youngro sayed in 1° page of this question: Excessive Walls.

Something being excessively used does not mean it's overpowered ergo it shouldn't be banned. Something should be banned if it's unhealthy for the game or overcentralizing. Stall is neither and it has plenty of counterplay besides requiring hax.

 

Quote

And, you to don't fall into wall and lose in your start of pvp, you'll start pvp with a full ready team, or use another RNG strategys. 

Or overwhelm your opponent's walls with either offensive pressure, safe set up options or taunt.

 

Quote

Youngro sayed, Excessive walls come in, some core breaks all wallbreaks

Name defensive 3 cores that can wall every wallbreaker and reliably wall everything else.

 

Quote

 and we know the preference of Tier Council, of "overpowered" strategys. RNG matchs is unhealty, but it is our only choice to counter it.

Blatantly false. I know the entire TC more or less changed since I left but I know a good chunk of them don't particularly favor stall and wouldn't allow it to dominate if it became problem. Hell I asked around and apparently stall's dogshit right now.

 

Quote

And easy startegys can counter cloyster, like vaccum wave, a PRIORITY MOVE, that to cloyster flinch, cloyster need to use ice shard and only have 10% chance.

"Just use a single move with shit distribution bro, just get lucky bro. Put the frail offensive mon that doesn't fit on every team on archetype to counter that one particular luck based pest bro it's easy, you have a lot of options"

 

Quote

And for king's rock cloyster work, we need a chance to use shell smash, and we can take OHKO, because don't have focus sash.

Or be behind screens against a physical matchup that doesn't have a super effective STAB move against it. It can also just get lucky against anything slower.

 

Quote

"- don't have a good team(If i don't have, i kept farming and not playing pvp)
-doesn't have experience enough to play ranked(i have a F**** pvp reward, Blissey 2x31 4x25 Bold.  if i don't have experience to play, i NEVER reached in one.)

You could have just gotten lucky, hell this is what the whole issue is about :^).

 

Quote

-think the game is the problem and not you(First, check how much defense a chansey eviolite reach. Second, i see too much match in pvp, of the most variety of players. i see novice suffer with walls.)"

Shuckle can have a gogollion defense too, doesn't mean it's particularly good. I know it has been a year since I last played and there have been plenty of meta shake ups but unless SWSH moves gave Chansey some killer utility that it sorely lacked (I'm guessing teleport but even then) or some punch packing move to let it two shot things I assume it's still the bulky abusable set up fodder that was before I quit.


Tbh I've always said that newer players usually gravitate towards either walls or rain for their first comps as they always guaranteed to be effective early comps to make instead of immediately starting out with some meme offensive mon with some tailor made moveset to fit a very specific team. Also lots of newer players think this is like an average rpg and want to have a balanced party with shit like a special wall, a physical wall and a bunch of attackers, resulting in some weird bulky offense.

If novices struggle too much with walls they should look into the many resources for teambuilding in the community instead of flipping a coin and hoping they flinch through it.

 

Quote

"easiest game's I ever played, at least for me. " At least for you, and for most part of players?

They should learn how to get good. No game should pander to their weaker, least experienced playerbase as they are likely to jump ship at any time.

 

Also this whole Cloyster vs walls thing is a weird strawman you invented in your head when it can mess with every playstyle including offense. You invented this caricature in your head that any player behind the idea of banning king's rock is an unoriginal stall only player who's seething that their copy paste team got flinched by a Cloyster. It's a distraction you and your buddy pulled out of your butt because people are getting tired of your coin toss strategy and want it gone once and for all.

Also looking at you talk about Jorge's team, you somehow think a team with a few walls in it is inherently a defensive or stall team, that just makes you look like you know nothing about this game and gives you less validation.

 

Rotom is not a wall for the record, a pokemon with defensive investment isn't necessarily a wall.

 

Kyu ban this garbage, rework it into either another item that's already out in newer gens that fixes some issue people find annoying right now, or turn it into a fanfic item with the same purpose. Just get this shit out of the game and stop pissing off the competitive playerbase because you somehow want to stay """""""""""""authentic to the games"""""""""""""" despite all the other fanfic changes made to it already.

 

Talk about creating a problem when it was already solved ages ago, not sure if it was due to some dev's OCD or what but it's an idiotic decision. Remove it.

Edited by suigin
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

The best victory rate is from nidoqueen, a Never Used pokemon, but checking only pokemons that have 10% or more usage, Rotom-Wash Again.

Nidoqueen and the others has -6% usage, they doesn't count as solid winrate references.

7 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

image.png.e4836d0ecbafc902d84227c163e40cf3.png

Agree. Rotom-Mow, Rotom-Wash and Hippowdon has high winrate and good usages, but you know where and how are they used right ? IN BALANCED. not stall, they are not core's mainly used in stall teams, are cores mainly used in Balanced teams.

you keep being wrong and misunderstanding the meta. 

I'm out replying to you again btw, impossible to talk with someone who spontaneously creates non-existent obstacles and nonsense opinions.

Edited by ZeknShooter
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17 hours ago, suigin said:

Kyu ban this garbage, rework it into either another item that's already out in newer gens that fixes some issue people find annoying right now, or turn it into a fanfic item with the same purpose. Just get this shit out of the game and stop pissing off the competitive playerbase because you somehow want to stay """""""""""""authentic to the games"""""""""""""" despite all the other fanfic changes made to it already.

 

Talk about creating a problem when it was already solved ages ago, nut sure if it was due to some dev's OCD or what but it's an idiotic decision. Remove it.

Remove something by calling it "unhealthy" for PvP while things like Togekiss/Paralyze/Fishing Scald Burn and a lot of other things exist doesn't seem a good argument in my opinion

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I can't believe I need to keep repeating this but some people clearly do not get it.

 

Things do not get banned solely because they are strong. We do not ban "Earthquake" from the game because it is one of the strongest attack in the game, we don't ban status ailments from the game because they have great effect on the battle. Things get banned when they decrease the level of competitiveness of the game. One-hit-KO moves aren't banned because they are overpowered, even with average luck with OHKO moves the lack of momentum you get from doing nothing often outweighs the occasional KO you get from OHKO moves (at a time when you would have done significant damage with your regular moves anyways). OHKO moves are banned because a player with literally no skill involved decided to just hope for luck rather than play positionally, and that is what we aim to encourage in competitive Pokemon. (Same goes to Evasion being banned to a large extent, even though this one is far easier to abuse and set up unstoppable game winning sweeps). The bottom line is that we do not remove things from chronological order that are the strongest, obviously. Things get removed from the game when the autonomy of the players are taken away - meaning that you cannot affect on your faith with the choices you make in the battle and rather are a passenger in RNG dice race. Saying that "paralyze/Serene Grace/Scald is strong" entirely misdirects the conversation because the argument for banning hax items never was that they win more games than they lose - the same way that was never the argument for OHKO moves being banned. The argument was - and forever will be - their uncompetitive nature and the fact you cannot and you shouldn't reasonably prepare for them. Maybe you could try to address this argument for once?

 

Edit: Even Smogon banned King's Rock from BW kek

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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1 hour ago, PedroLindoUnico said:

Remove something by calling it "unhealthy" for PvP while things like Togekiss/Paralyze/Fishing Scald Burn and a lot of other things exist doesn't seem a good argument in my opinion

It's all about tradeoff and counterplay offered. If it was for me I'd have banned Scald ages ago too.  Togekiss' disadvantage is that it's very set reliant in order to beat certain matchups and its speed tier is nowhere near close to a set up Cloyster's speed tier allowing it to flinch far less.

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4 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

I can't believe I need to keep repeating this but some people clearly do not get it.

 

Things do not get banned solely because they are strong. We do not ban "Earthquake" from the game because it is one of the strongest attack in the game, we don't ban status ailments from the game because they have great effect on the battle. Things get banned when they decrease the level of competitiveness of the game. One-hit-KO moves aren't banned because they are overpowered, even with average luck with OHKO moves the lack of momentum you get from doing nothing often outweighs the occasional KO you get from OHKO moves (at a time when you would have done significant damage with your regular moves anyways). OHKO moves are banned because a player with literally no skill involved decided to just hope for luck rather than play positionally, and that is what we aim to encourage in competitive Pokemon. (Same goes to Evasion being banned to a large extent, even though this one is far easier to abuse and set up unstoppable game winning sweeps). The bottom line is that we do not remove things from chronological order that are the strongest, obviously. Things get removed from the game when the autonomy of the players are taken away - meaning that you cannot affect on your faith with the choices you make in the battle and rather are a passenger in RNG dice race. Saying that "paralyze/Serene Grace/Scald is strong" entirely misdirects the conversation because the argument for banning hax items never was that they win more games than they lose - the same way that was never the argument for OHKO moves being banned. The argument was - and forever will be - their uncompetitive nature and the fact you cannot and you shouldn't reasonably prepare for them. Maybe you could try to address this argument for once?

 

Edit: Even Smogon banned King's Rock from BW kek

 

All we talk here is: Who is unhealty in PvP. In my 1150 hours of playing, i say that is: Play exaustive matchs against walls and RNG strategys and itens.
 - Use scald, paraflinch and king's rock cloytser is some example of RNG strategys.
 - Wall is pokemon that you put in field with objective of tanking hits. One or two walls is healthy. But 3,4,5 or 6 walls, like this:

 

1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

image.png.b705b1fba73b3700bcd9f923bc2aa81e.png
Well, Huargensy talk to me who is healty and who isn't, but look at this team? Is healty play against that and guarant a 50+ turns match?

 

is unhealty, especially for novice players, that play only for keeps. this is a abuse of walls.
Remember, don't confuse wall with support.
Wall is a pokemon to Tank hits.
Support is for help team, setting hazards in opposing team, clear hazards from your size, set reflect and light screen, use taunt and safeguard to protect of status moves/problem stats, use tailwind to boost speed, Etc.

 

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8 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

All we talk here is: Who is unhealty in PvP. In my 1150 hours of playing, i say that is: Play exaustive matchs against walls and RNG strategys and itens.
 - Use scald, paraflinch and king's rock cloytser is some example of RNG strategys.

Ok so you agree that RNG fishing is unhealthy, gotcha. We're all in agreement on that.

The wall thing maybe not, but the topic isn't about it, it's about King's Rock and its RNG fishing properties so we can all ignore it.

 

Remove king's rock.

Spoiler

ban scald too

 

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5 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

All we talk here is: Who is unhealty in PvP. In my 1150 hours of playing, i say that is: Play exaustive matchs against walls and RNG strategys and itens.
 - Use scald, paraflinch and king's rock cloytser is some example of RNG strategys.
 - Wall is pokemon that you put in field with objective of tanking hits. One or two walls is healthy. But 3,4,5 or 6 walls, like this:

 

is unhealty, especially for novice players, that play only for keeps. this is a abuse of walls.
Remember, don't confuse wall with support.
Wall is a pokemon to Tank hits.
Support is for help team, setting hazards in opposing team, clear hazards from your size, set reflect and light screen, use taunt and safeguard to protect of status moves/problem stats, use tailwind to boost speed, Etc.

 

Ok.

unknown.png

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