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Ban king's rock from PvP


JorgeFirebolt

Question

There's no need to explain why, it's frustrating to play a PvP, be about to win, you still got a counter vs Cloyster, and then, from nowhere, when cloyster just sets up Shell smash, tada, you get flinched!

 

It's literally one of the most unhealthy PvP items. For those who say that "King's rock is ok 'cause paraflinch exist eksdee", paraflinch can be stopped by lots of things like natural cure users, electric types, or heal bell cleric users, while king's rock cloyster is just a spammy unhealthy mon with no solid counter if boosted and flinch is done to it's counter.

 

It's not healthy to have a broken wallbreaker such as Cloyster with a 41% to flinch it's enemy and a 10% on each move. I bet I'm not the only one who was having a good match, close to win, then king's rock cloyster comes from nowhere and flinches the pokemon that can stop him. (Example: Magnezone, reuniclus, metagross, chansey/blissey at full health, cofagrigus, etc...)

 

Just ban it, it's the most unhealthy thing you can see on this PvP metagame. I'm open to any against argument and to answer them.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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On 6/30/2021 at 4:55 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

For sure, really healthy, want to know the difference between them both?

 

The first one (Cloyster king's rock) got few solid counters due to this RNG based factor. (The most solid one around 4% of usage)

 

While that core gets destroyed by hydreigon taunt easily, just mentioned 1 of lots of counters to that core, here's another, lucario nasty plot, could keep going on, but I'm to lazy to teach you about how stall is healthy since it's a play method.

 

I forgot to mention, Ice shard have 10% flinch chance. Try to use a lucario, a blaziken, or even a Mixed or Special Infernape, with a Vaccum Wave move

After, show me the results in a forum post.

 

On 7/1/2021 at 11:34 AM, VelociRaptorr said:

Really? limit wall?
 

yes, too much players abuse in walls. Limit is only way to make impossible kept tanking and win 17 in 20 match in forfeits.

 

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20 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

I forgot to mention, Ice shard have 10% flinch chance. Try to use a lucario, a blaziken, or even a Mixed or Special Infernape, with a Vaccum Wave move

After, show me the results in a forum post.

Those aint even counters, only lucario is a counter off that list you mentioned, also, who uses blaziken on this metagame with infernape being the fire physical dominating threat, nape and blaziken are only checks to cloyster, you need to learn the difference in between check and counter.

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On 7/1/2021 at 3:08 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

Those aint even counters, only lucario is a counter off that list you mentioned, also, who uses blaziken on this metagame with infernape being the fire physical dominating threat, nape and blaziken are only checks to cloyster, you need to learn the difference in between check and counter.

I sayed, try to use, and after show me the results. Or you are lazy and can't adapt your copypasted team? Like i sayed, special counters counter cloyster with a priority move. And the 3 have special moveset, and nape is a Meta pokemon.

 

 

On 7/1/2021 at 3:17 PM, caioxlive13 said:

I sayed, try to use, and after show me the results. Or you are lazy and can't adapt your copypasted team? Like i sayed, special counters counter cloyster with a priority move. And the 3 have special moveset, and nape is a Meta pokemon.

 

Like play football in bolivia, too much people says that is impossible, but only is question of use Inteligency.

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I don't comment on this small group wanting to ban an "OP" item that their copy-pasted defensive teams can't defeat. They want a ban on an item that disfavors them, and use totally clueless arguments for that.

1° - If the Pokémon has 1% or more usage, what counts is your success (Win Rate)
2° - The RNG Flinch doesn't make your poke flinch too much if it's a move of 1 hit (10% chance), so it uses good priority moves against the cloyster, mach punch and vaccum wave are an option

3° - Did you think of any beginners when they asked for the king's rock ban? Have you thought about how difficult it will be for them to play, farm BP and build their competitive team, because they will only fall against common wall combos that cover all offensives, and won't have anything to use to counter?
4° - If you think that the wall is not boring and is a healthy method to play, spend 1 week playing pvp with Hyper Offense teams. No wall brakers, I want to see that wall is healthy after getting angry for not killing chansey ever.
If anyone talk : it is impossible to play with a Hyper Offense Team, with no wall breakers, it is the most part of casual players use and suffer with him

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4 minutes ago, CristiDOX said:

After a lot of nonsense, he's finally right about something.

 

Nop, still wrong, HO is pretty playable, but also arguably the most rng archetype as a simple miss can throw all the momentum you built. Also yes I'm ones of those that wish that as a suspect test, they removed conkel of the tier as it would promote a different meta.

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4 minutes ago, razimove said:

Nop, still wrong, HO is pretty playable, but also arguably the most rng archetype as a simple miss can throw all the momentum you built. Also yes I'm ones of those that wish that as a suspect test, they removed conkel of the tier as it would promote a different meta.

Well, it's a playable style, but Cdurr is always going to be a big problem, and you have to admit that what he said was perfect to revive this old post.

+1 for Sofiik.

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7 minutes ago, razimove said:

Nop, still wrong, HO is pretty playable, but also arguably the most rng archetype as a simple miss can throw all the momentum you built. Also yes I'm ones of those that wish that as a suspect test, they removed conkel of the tier as it would promote a different meta.

Hyper Offense is only viable with a support and a wall braker. without this , hyper offense is more pearls throwed to pigs
unfortunately, most of novice players that play pvp don't use this

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

Hyper Offense is only viable with a support and a wall braker. without this , hyper offense is more pearls throwed to pigs
unfortunately, most of novice players that play pvp don't use this

Nor do you, granted what you just said lmfao. You kind of sound likr a beginner that started yesterday.

Edited by razimove
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6 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

yes, too much players abuse in walls. Limit is only way to make impossible kept tanking and win 17 in 20 match in forfeits.

 

but then too many ppls will abuse offensive mons and they'll have to be limited too

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2 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

No comento sobre este pequeño grupo que quiere prohibir un elemento "OP" que sus equipos defensivos copiados no pueden derrotar. Quieren una prohibición de un artículo que los desfavorece, y usan argumentos totalmente desorientados para eso.

1 ° - Si el Pokémon tiene 1% o más de uso, lo que cuenta es tu éxito (Tasa de ganancia)

3 ° - ¿Pensaste en algún principiante cuando pidieron la prohibición del rock del rey? ¿Has pensado en lo difícil que será para ellos jugar, cultivar BP y construir su equipo competitivo, porque solo caerán contra combos de muro común que cubren todas las ofensivas y no tendrán nada que usar para contraatacar?
4 ° - Si crees que el muro no es aburrido y es un método saludable para jugar, pasa 1 semana jugando pvp con equipos de Hyper Offense. Sin frenos de pared, quiero ver que la pared está sana después de enojarme por no haber matado a Chansey nunca.
Si alguien habla: es imposible jugar con un Hyper Offense Team, sin rompemuros, es la mayor parte de los jugadores casuales que usan y sufren con él.

What if the novice player wanted to play Balanced or Stall?

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On 6/30/2021 at 10:18 PM, Bearminator said:

Friendly reminder that "you are dumb" or "look at the particular team xyz used" are not valid,or needed arguments in discussion 

 

15 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

I sayed, try to use, and after show me the results. Or you are lazy and can't adapt your copypasted team? Like i sayed, special counters counter cloyster with a priority move. And the 3 have special moveset, and nape is a Meta pokemon.

 

262864922_RTDXPortraitSad.png.4e79b7bba136fcfdbb242bd5c5031dad.png 

 

Venusaur feeling sad about you calling me a copypaster 😞

 

Imagine being your only valid argument against mines that I copypaste teams (which sadly you're wrong about it lmao).

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1 hour ago, JorgeFirebolt said:

 

262864922_RTDXPortraitSad.png.4e79b7bba136fcfdbb242bd5c5031dad.png 

 

Venusaur se siente triste por que me llames copista 😞

 

Imagínese ser su único argumento válido en contra de las minas que copio y copio a los equipos (que lamentablemente se equivoca al respecto lmao).

Jorge se preocupa por ti, es hora de jubilarte cuando seas mayor. -Bueno, quitando las bromas, Roca del Rey es un objeto que depende mucho de la suerte y por lo tanto no puede tener contraataque, sería fácil decir sorpresa + combate cuerpo a cuerpo pero si consigues poner shell smash, tendrás una probabilidad del 50% 50% si su muro o el Cheque lo vuelven a colocar, creo que la mejor solución para todos sería #BanCloyster o quitarle su capacidad

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33 minutes ago, hernjet said:

Jorge se preocupa por ti, es hora de jubilarte cuando seas mayor. -Bueno, quitando las bromas, Roca del Rey es un objeto que depende mucho de la suerte y por lo tanto no puede tener contraataque, sería fácil decir sorpresa + combate cuerpo a cuerpo pero si consigues poner shell smash, tendrás una probabilidad del 50% 50% si su muro o el Cheque lo vuelven a colocar, creo que la mejor solución para todos sería #BanCloyster o quitarle su capacidad

No, the best is ban kings rock, no ban cloyster lol

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44 minutes ago, hernjet said:

Jorge se preocupa por ti, es hora de jubilarte cuando seas mayor. -Bueno, quitando las bromas, Roca del Rey es un objeto que depende mucho de la suerte y por lo tanto no puede tener contraataque, sería fácil decir sorpresa + combate cuerpo a cuerpo pero si consigues poner shell smash, tendrás una probabilidad del 50% 50% si su muro o el Cheque lo vuelven a colocar, creo que la mejor solución para todos sería #BanCloyster o quitarle su capacidad

dude i think you didnt understand anything  838995482830700555.png?v=1

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51 minutes ago, hernjet said:

Jorge se preocupa por ti, es hora de jubilarte cuando seas mayor. -Bueno, quitando las bromas, Roca del Rey es un objeto que depende mucho de la suerte y por lo tanto no puede tener contraataque, sería fácil decir sorpresa + combate cuerpo a cuerpo pero si consigues poner shell smash, tendrás una probabilidad del 50% 50% si su muro o el Cheque lo vuelven a colocar, creo que la mejor solución para todos sería #BanCloyster o quitarle su capacidad

 

On 6/30/2021 at 5:04 PM, Makarovs said:

It's always funny when new players discover this forum.

 

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Posted (edited)

healty.

On 6/30/2021 at 6:47 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

Sobre seus argumentos sobre "Stall não é saudável".


Na minha opinião pessoal, qualquer forma de jogar e core é SAUDÁVEL, você está livre para jogar o que quiser, é muito mais prejudicial à saúde algo que tem apenas 1 contador com 4% de uso e é baseado em RNG do que jogar uma tenda que tem muitos contadores,

Screenshot_20210619-214505.png

Screenshot_20210630-170308.png

Screenshot_20210628-135332.png

Edited by Matthzinxl
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On 30/06/2021 at 20:30, caioxlive13 said:

Togekiss tem air slash, 30% vacilante, mas a graça serena multiplica por 2 essa chance. 30% x 2 = 60%
E TODOS OS CONJUNTOS DE META de togekiss, ou como jogadores de PT chamam, Togeflinch, têm o movimento de golpe de ar e capacidade de graça serena. Mas não choramos como jogadores do chat de EN / ES e não pedimos o banimento dele. apenas continuamos jogando, sabemos como contra-atacá-lo.

 

Your argument is not so wrong, at least this one, but how about we stop using the “PT” chat as an example and cite other countries as an argument for something competitive, I'm from PT and that's bothering you a little.

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13 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

No comento sobre este pequeño grupo que quiere prohibir un elemento "OP" que sus equipos defensivos copiados no pueden derrotar. Quieren una prohibición de un artículo que los desfavorece, y usan argumentos totalmente desorientados para eso.

1 ° - Si el Pokémon tiene 1% o más de uso, lo que cuenta es tu éxito (Tasa de victoria)
2 ° - El RNG Flinch no hace que tu poke se estremezca demasiado si es un movimiento de 1 golpe (10% de probabilidad), por lo que utiliza buenos movimientos de prioridad contra el cloyster, mach punch y la onda de vacío son una opción

3 ° - ¿Pensaste en algún principiante cuando pidieron la prohibición del rock del rey? ¿Has pensado en lo difícil que será para ellos jugar, cultivar BP y construir su equipo competitivo, porque solo caerán contra combos de muro común que cubren todas las ofensivas y no tendrán nada que usar para contraatacar?
4 ° - Si crees que el muro no es aburrido y es un método saludable para jugar, pasa 1 semana jugando pvp con equipos de Hyper Offense. Sin frenos de pared, quiero ver que la pared está sana después de enojarme por no haber matado a Chansey nunca.
Si alguien habla: es imposible jugar con un Hyper Offense Team, sin rompemuros, es la mayor parte de los jugadores casuales que usan y sufren con él.

Brother, I hope you understand something, "There are 6 pokes, you will never have a full ps lucario to constrrestar a cloyster" the problem here is that you can put together a good team, a core of magne + rotom bold, be winning 6.0 and out of nowhere A cloyster appears, the magne and the rotom flicker and you lose tremendous game because of the rng, tell me where is the competitive and fun in that? .. it is completely ridiculous and demotivating to lose a duel that you have completely won because of an rng of mrd

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Posted (edited)
On 7/2/2021 at 10:58 AM, ZacMorales said:

Brother, I hope you understand something, "There are 6 pokes, you will never have a full ps lucario to constrrestar a cloyster" the problem here is that you can put together a good team, a core of magne + rotom bold, be winning 6.0 and out of nowhere A cloyster appears, the magne and the rotom flicker and you lose tremendous game because of the rng, tell me where is the competitive and fun in that? .. it is completely ridiculous and demotivating to lose a duel that you have completely won because of an rng of mrd

i don't think is healty win RNG, but use walls combos to win is too unhealty
like use blissey, who is the fun win onlly tank? only leave oponnent angry to don't kill blissey. if you like to see another players angry, then you don't need ask a ban from king's rock, m... i don't talk nothing.

 

like i sayed. If want a ban of king's rock, ask a ban of some defensive strategy, or nerf him.
like toxic, i think to him have a 85% acc, but poison-types don't check acc, or semi-invulnerable turns, to hit. only don't hit if Tarteg is protected.
Reduce Flinch King's rock from 10% to 8% per hit. 
Reduce Eviolite defense buffing from 1,5x to 1,3x
Reduce rng chance from quick claw from 10% to 5%
increase rng chance from focus band work from 10% to 15%
Add a chance , like recent games, to pokemon cures itself from Poison, Paralysis, or burn, according to him happiness.
Some suggest to equilibrate.

Edited by caioxlive13
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Yes, a limit of walls, there are many players who abuse the "exhaust" type of game, look for the games of 100+ turns, and the only thing that does is change to a wall that counteracts your offensive or bulky pokemon and so on. turns, and you cannot upload the statistics either since it has a specific poke to stop yours, it is a game mode YES, but it is the most disgusting and disgusting in pokemon, perhaps you are competitive players in the ((original game)) 100+ shifts passed? Not? Certain? because the game is defined in the first turns, because they play at full predits and by surprising the opponent with movements that they do not expect or distribution of specific Evs, I REPEAT it is a "game method" but disgusting, and the players who play with that " method "they do not deserve any respect, BECAUSE TO PLAY TO," FRIEND, THAT TOOK YOU TO MORE 100+ TURNS AND YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE HIM THE SURRENDER BUTTON EHH ", is not having ability, not knowing how to play, NOT knowing how to predict, just change to your favorite wall.

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2 hours ago, CREELAST said:

Yes, a limit of walls, there are many players who abuse the "exhaust" type of game, look for the games of 100+ turns, and the only thing that does is change to a wall that counteracts your offensive or bulky pokemon and so on. turns, and you cannot upload the statistics either since it has a specific poke to stop yours, it is a game mode YES, but it is the most disgusting and disgusting in pokemon, perhaps you are competitive players in the ((original game)) 100+ shifts passed? Not? Certain? because the game is defined in the first turns, because they play at full predits and by surprising the opponent with movements that they do not expect or distribution of specific Evs, I REPEAT it is a "game method" but disgusting, and the players who play with that " method "they do not deserve any respect, BECAUSE TO PLAY TO," FRIEND, THAT TOOK YOU TO MORE 100+ TURNS AND YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE HIM THE SURRENDER BUTTON EHH ", is not having ability, not knowing how to play, NOT knowing how to predict, just change to your favorite wall.

Ah? What does the original game have to do with it? If the format is 3vs3 without tier xD rules, you want to say something more compared to 6vs6, it's smogon, and I've seen showdown duels reach 1000 turns and I didn't see people complaining, stop crying after wall teams, there is always a way to open them if you have a good buildeo, prediction and field management, and it is not at all insane, it would be insane to depend on luck to develop plays as is the case of kings rock, I don't know as a theme I lead to another totally different one, please don't make a fool of yourself anymore, really

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