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Ban king's rock from PvP


JorgeFirebolt

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There's no need to explain why, it's frustrating to play a PvP, be about to win, you still got a counter vs Cloyster, and then, from nowhere, when cloyster just sets up Shell smash, tada, you get flinched!

 

It's literally one of the most unhealthy PvP items. For those who say that "King's rock is ok 'cause paraflinch exist eksdee", paraflinch can be stopped by lots of things like natural cure users, electric types, or heal bell cleric users, while king's rock cloyster is just a spammy unhealthy mon with no solid counter if boosted and flinch is done to it's counter.

 

It's not healthy to have a broken wallbreaker such as Cloyster with a 41% to flinch it's enemy and a 10% on each move. I bet I'm not the only one who was having a good match, close to win, then king's rock cloyster comes from nowhere and flinches the pokemon that can stop him. (Example: Magnezone, reuniclus, metagross, chansey/blissey at full health, cofagrigus, etc...)

 

Just ban it, it's the most unhealthy thing you can see on this PvP metagame. I'm open to any against argument and to answer them.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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On 6/30/2021 at 2:44 PM, YoungRo said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/PlayfulExcitedGrouseArsonNoSexy-0LCeGLSuf6aNX0jA

 

Look how pretentious Mr JorgeFireBolt is, look at his team and you will understand why he wants a cloyster ban, see if this match is fair, look how much easier it is to play with his team than to play with cloyster kings rock

 

Olhem como o Senhor JorgeFireBolt é espertinho, ele só quer banir as coisas que atrapalham o time dele, olhem como o Pagui, jogando com um Hyper Offense tem problemas pra lidar com jogadas simples do JorgeFireBolt, é sobre isso guys, Se ninguem começar a dar sua opniao aqui no forum, os caras vão manipular o meta pra q fique melhor pra eles sempre, Covarde do caralho.

 

I need to talk, Players from EN, ES chat don't fair play, ask ban fo everything that is a viable counte for our walls teams. The JorgeFireBolt ask a ban from king's rock, but use defense team. At least, PT players play fair, if see one OP strategy, don't ask a ban of them, only find and use counters.
 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 3:22 PM, caioxlive13 said:

I need to talk, Players from EN, ES chat don't fair play, ask ban fo everything that is a viable counte for our walls teams. The JorgeFireBolt ask a ban from king's rock, but use defense team. At least, PT players play fair, if see one OP strategy, don't ask a ban of them, only find and use counters.
 

This is FAIR PLAY, ask for ban from strategys really unbeatable. If have a counter to one strategy, just find it and implement in yout team, it's hard?

 

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44 minutes ago, YoungRo said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/PlayfulExcitedGrouseArsonNoSexy-0LCeGLSuf6aNX0jA

 

Look how pretentious Mr JorgeFireBolt is, look at his team and you will understand why he wants a cloyster ban, see if this match is fair, look how much easier it is to play with his team than to play with cloyster kings rock

 

Olhem como o Senhor JorgeFireBolt é espertinho, ele só quer banir as coisas que atrapalham o time dele, olhem como o Pagui, jogando com um Hyper Offense tem problemas pra lidar com jogadas simples do JorgeFireBolt, é sobre isso guys, Se ninguem começar a dar sua opniao aqui no forum, os caras vão manipular o meta pra q fique melhor pra eles sempre, Covarde do caralho.

 

I'll gladly answer all your posts since you came to my whispers to call me a defensor of stall. Lmao, you getting my points wrong about banning king's rock cloyster.

 

Also, glad you met my balancesaur (which aint a stall, it's a balance with 1 wallbreaker, 1 sweeper, 1 speedcontrol + trick user and setup removals.)

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On 6/30/2021 at 3:18 PM, Bearminator said:

Friendly reminder that "you are dumb" or "look at the particular team xyz used" are not valid,or needed arguments in discussion 

You are correct. But, "you are (Any Offense)" is only for try to make players stop use Arguments that contrary arguments of them, and are correct. "Look at the particular team XYZ used" is only a example, from teams that naturally, is countered by strategy discuss.
Like Particular teams defensive, example: JorgeFireBolt team; is clearly countered by a cloyster king's rock. But, teams balanced and offense not. Players from chat EN/ES most ask for ban itens or abilitys that counter defense teams. PT chat, for example, doesn't matter for OP itens or strategys, he always found a way to counter, and he matter for counter OP itens and strategys, instead of Ask a Ban of them

 

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 3:33 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

I'll gladly answer all your posts since you came to my whispers to call me a defensor of stall. Lmao, you getting my points wrong about banning king's rock cloyster.

 

Also, glad you met my balancesaur (which aint a stall, it's a balance with 1 wallbreaker, 1 sweeper, 1 speedcontrol + trick user and setup removals.)

YoungRo is 100% correct. You use 4 pokemons walls(trick users, speed control and setup removals needs to be wall to survive), and you ask a ban of one thing that easily counter your team. instead of your, i don't ask for ban, only search modes to counter it. You can use a Lucario, even 6x15 Gift storyline, and win easily a king's rock cloyster.

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Just now, caioxlive13 said:

YoungRo is 100% correct. You use 4 pokemons walls(trick users, speed control and setup removals needs to be wall to survive), and you ask a ban of one thing that easily counter your team. instead of your, i don't ask for ban, only search modes to counter it. You can use a Lucario, even 6x15 Gift storyline, and win easily a king's rock cloyster.

Shhh random

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Just now, caioxlive13 said:

YoungRo is 100% correct. You use 4 pokemons walls(trick users, speed control and setup removals needs to be wall to survive), and you ask a ban of one thing that easily counter your team. instead of your, i don't ask for ban, only search modes to counter it. You can use a Lucario, even 6x15 Gift storyline, and win easily a king's rock cloyster.

Ok so i'll start with your post since you pissed mf off a lot.

 

"You use 4 pokemons walls".

 

Your wrong. There's 3 walls on my team, if you were smart enough and saw the whole battle you would know that ROTOM AINT A WALL ON MY TEAM, rotom is a trick-scarf user.

 

The only 3 walls on my team (which is the main core) milotic, hippowdon, and venusaur.

 

Second off, don't get offtopic, this isn't about my team and how I teambuild, if you get pissed cause I win with good teambuilding, complain to someone else, not to me or in a public post sharing a twitch clip of a streamer losing vs me, that's really disrespectfull from your part, even more when someone comes to my whisp BECAUSE I WON A DAMN RANKED DUEL with a balanced team vs a cloyster.

 

Third off, i'll answer later when I've time your view points in favor of cloyster ARE REALLY WRONG, don't get me wrong, but, that's what I think, if you think lucario is the only solid counter, go ahead, see it's usage and how it was about to fall to UU.

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On 6/30/2021 at 3:42 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

Ok so i'll start with your post since you pissed mf off a lot.

 

"You use 4 pokemons walls".

 

Your wrong. There's 3 walls on my team, if you were smart enough and saw the whole battle you would know that ROTOM AINT A WALL ON MY TEAM, rotom is a trick-scarf user.

 

The only 3 walls on my team (which is the main core) milotic, hippowdon, and venusaur.

 

Second off, don't get offtopic, this isn't about my team and how I teambuild, if you get pissed cause I win with good teambuilding, complain to someone else, not to me or in a public post sharing a twitch clip of a streamer losing vs me, that's really disrespectfull from your part, even more when someone comes to my whisp BECAUSE I WON A DAMN RANKED DUEL with a balanced team vs a cloyster.

 

Third off, i'll answer later when I've time your view points in favor of cloyster ARE REALLY WRONG, don't get me wrong, but, that's what I think, if you think lucario is the only solid counter, go ahead, see it's usage and how it was about to fall to UU.

First, see the counters in post of youngro, in page 1.
Second, Rotom is most used wall, but even with NO defense investiments, cloyster don't kill him easily.

Third, Lucario, Darmanitan and Haxorus Don't fall to UU, they are UUBL. 
Fourth, I used Lucario with a example, mienshao with Fake Out in first turn of match, and special priority moves, counter Cloyster easy.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 3:42 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

Ok so i'll start with your post since you pissed mf off a lot.

 

"You use 4 pokemons walls".

 

Your wrong. There's 3 walls on my team, if you were smart enough and saw the whole battle you would know that ROTOM AINT A WALL ON MY TEAM, rotom is a trick-scarf user.

 

The only 3 walls on my team (which is the main core) milotic, hippowdon, and venusaur.

 

Second off, don't get offtopic, this isn't about my team and how I teambuild, if you get pissed cause I win with good teambuilding, complain to someone else, not to me or in a public post sharing a twitch clip of a streamer losing vs me, that's really disrespectfull from your part, even more when someone comes to my whisp BECAUSE I WON A DAMN RANKED DUEL with a balanced team vs a cloyster.

 

Third off, i'll answer later when I've time your view points in favor of cloyster ARE REALLY WRONG, don't get me wrong, but, that's what I think, if you think lucario is the only solid counter, go ahead, see it's usage and how it was about to fall to UU.

And next time, search possible counters for combos OP. If you don't find none, then you ask a ban from this.

 

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Just now, Makarovs said:

It's always funny when new players discover this forum. This guy calling people "wall lovers" left and right, just ignoring the fact that they said that kings rock affects all kinds of gameplay.

Defensive teams suffer to counter cloyster, but offense, can have some counters, like lucario, that even 0 IV Sp. Atk, 0 EV sp. Atk, and a neutral nature... 0 SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 320-380 (132.7 - 157.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edited by caioxlive13
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Posted (edited)

So time to start answering this posts, as I said i'd be open to answer an against argument, and I will.

 

On 6/28/2021 at 2:53 PM, YoungRo said:
Hello dear friend! Want to know what's really frustrating?

PVP Metagame is broken, but not because of the Shell Smash+Kings Rock, i agree with you, it's very uncomfortable to lose the game because of RNG Flinch, although, the

Cloyster with Kings Rock is not a problem, but a symptom of it.

 

The PokeMMO PVP Metagame is totally dominates by Walls (Red= Offensive Pokémon, Blue=Defensive Pokémon, Purple= Offensive Pokémon with Defensive Set's)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Even in smaller numbers , Offensive Pokemon can easily be covered by simple core of Walls.

 

-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed.

 

-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp.

 

-The Kings Rock Cloyster was bron just to have some a offensive chance of dealing with all these Walls that dominate the Over Used meta game without this item he's pratically lost in the middle of so many Defensive Pokémon.

 

-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring

 

- There are offensive ways to deal with this strategy, like: 

Conkeldur :

image.thumb.png.b52e2b600396bfc87666b9d91e514ce8.png

 

Rotom W (this one doesn't even need investiment in defense):

image.png.e1847829e7ed006eccd6e8a0dd8cdd4c.png

 

Magnezone:

image.png.dc0cff02408d5e1d13ed123753db3711.png

 

Vacuum Wave+Lucario kills Cloyster regardless of the situation.

 

-Anyway, several reasons show that maybe only knowledge is lacking for players who are suffering for this strategy; not everything is solved with a ban, whenever something offensive is banned, many players who like and enjoy playing this way feel even less willing to play, and for the meta game to remain healthy, it is ideal to seek viability for all playstyles, which currently does not happen. Probably the Staff will listen to you, and ban Kings rock from pvp, as they clearly favor defensive play style (or don't know what they're doing with pvp).

 

Thanks for Read! by a better PokeMMO for all.

 

"-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed."

 

OU metagame is dominated by Balance teams, not by stall. 

 

Balance teams > Offensive teams
Defensive teams > Balance teams

Offensive teams > Defensive teams

 

As you can see all the kind of cores can be destroyed by another one. Balance includes all kind of balances, offensive teams like bulky offense, HO or standard Offense can end with a stall team easily.

 

"-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp. "

 

Based easy core that gets destroyed with magnezone + any fighting type.

 

(In answer to all your calcs): This is where you give me a point, as I said, cloyster has lots of ways to get countered, but what if cloyster from nowhere does a flinch thanks to it's abusive 41% chance to flinch a mon lol, even with ice shard you have a 10% to flinch, the only solid counter inside those calcs (which I answered you with that as a counter on my whisps) is any kind of lucario set with priority.

 

"-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring"

 

Lol, those got banned for the same reason king's rock will get banned for, they're abusive and their counters are used a few only.

 

In regard, if you defend that "cloyster is ez to wall", check the ONLY SOLID COUNTER cloyster has on OU usage is (Close to drop to UU, but didn't drop, so it's UUBL I think, i'll rectifiy if I'm wrong about it's an UUBL rn).

 

To summarize my arguments against yours: Any kind of team can be played right now on OU, and OU ain't boring, your analysis is wrong, you are limitated to only-ou mons, there's millions of UU/NU mons who're really viable on OU and which are about to rise to OU.

 

Examples: Venusaur, Weavile, Crobat, Heracross, Aerodactyl, Roserade, etc... (Need to say only weavile and aerodactyl about to go up to OU, I don't think the rest will, only heracross has a chance.)

 

And about "Lol cloyster got lots of solid counters", yknow how annoying is to have a nice counter and well built team vs cloyster and get flinched? All your calcs have the risk to lose against a flinch (except conkeldurr, which I consider a good check to cloyster too), it only has 1 damn solid counter at it has a shitty usage due to its lack of viability in OU nowadays if not used inside an Offense team.

 

image.png.784745ac3d59c9a8fe94d7ad667352d8.png

 

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:13 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Draco Meteor Hydreigon is not healthy
Team of Razimove: Reuniclus, Cofagrigus, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Rotom and Chansey Eviolite
i don't teambuild?

 

That stall be fucked by lots of things.

 

Taunt hydreigon, Nasty plot lucario, sub-nasty plot hydreigon, Infernape itself can do a lot of damage (specially mixed nape).

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:22 PM, caioxlive13 said:

This Wall-Lovers is a joke. King's rock is only a trouble to players that pick 3 Physical Walls, 3 Special walls, and play pvp. Offensive players don't have problem with it, once time that we have STRATEGY to play, and can counter with a priority special move or Fake Out + Close Combat, that break Sash Cloysters and King's Rock Cloyster Without problem. Defensive players don't use strategy, only spam Toxic and a recover move, some times moves to buff your own defense and/or Special Defense.

That's not right, cloyster as I said in other answers, has only 1 solid counter if no flinch which it's usage is around 4% and was about to drop to UU (Which was kept to UUBL due it has poorly ways to get stopped inside UU).

 

And yeh, cloyster can be stopped easily with fake out + close combat, good point, but, this is wrong. Cloyster is a lategame sweeper, as SD Garchomp was and Dmeteor Specs Hydreigon too. And the mons you mention are really fragile and easy to die, I'm guesing by fakeout+close combat you mean shao, shao loses to cloyster and only has a chance to fakeout once, then sac a mon from your team after fake out, cause you won't let shao die.

 

About those "wall lovers" you're calling out, I've never played stall in my life btw, but I do know """"""wall lovers"""", and yeh, they do complain about cloyster, but I do know players who play offense, or balance, or anything, and agree cloyster king's rock is broken and RNG Based, in resume, unhealthy, there's literally like 4 more posts about RNG Items to get banned, which they will get banned soon I guess at this point.

 

About your arguments about "Stall is unhealthy".

 

In my personal view, any kind of way to play and core is HEALTHY, you're free to play whatever you want the heck, it's way more unhealthy something that has only 1 counter with a 4% of usage and it's RNG Based than playing a stall which has lots of counters, but sadly you need more experience to know what those counters are, here's some examples of stall destroyers that are really popular on this game: Hydreigon taunt, Hydreigon nasty plot destroys any kind of stall, even more if used with focus blast, Conkeldurr allout attacker with speed evs (Tpunch or stone edge, both good against stall), Heracross Swords Dance, Kingdra Focus energy + DD or without DD can be a nice stallbreaker, Togekiss if no rock types or rotom/magnezone can be a beast too.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 3:50 PM, caioxlive13 said:

First, see the counters in post of youngro, in page 1.
Second, Rotom is most used wall, but even with NO defense investiments, cloyster don't kill him easily.

Third, Lucario, Darmanitan and Haxorus Don't fall to UU, they are UUBL. 
Fourth, I used Lucario with a example, mienshao with Fake Out in first turn of match, and special priority moves, counter Cloyster easy.

First, all the counters are stopped by flinches except Lucario.

Second, that doesn't justify my rotom needed to be a wall, I can use whatever I want, and I choose to use an scarf set to speecontrol or trick annoying mons such as p2, electrode, aerodactyl or chansey.

Third, never said Lucario was about to drop to UU, since it has 0 solid counters in UU, that's why it never got dropped, same as haxorus and darmanitan as you said lo.

Fourth, Mienshao fakeout isn't even a check to cloyster, you use fakeout once, and then in the next turn you lose one of your 6 mons if boosted.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 3:38 PM, caioxlive13 said:

YoungRo is 100% correct. You use 4 pokemons walls(trick users, speed control and setup removals needs to be wall to survive), and you ask a ban of one thing that easily counter your team. instead of your, i don't ask for ban, only search modes to counter it. You can use a Lucario, even 6x15 Gift storyline, and win easily a king's rock cloyster.

I insist you, watch the full battle, and tell me again a stall user. Your argument is that because rotom is used mostly bold, mines bold, that's wrong man.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 3:55 PM, caioxlive13 said:

And next time, search possible counters for combos OP. If you don't find none, then you ask a ban from this.

 

Need me to show you some basic PvP concepts:

 

Check: Can stop a mon but doesn't fully has a saveswitch or a way to stop it in an unclean switch.

Counter: Fully stops it.

 

You're mistaking counter with check. There's literally one solid check to cloyster, and it has a 4% of usage inside OU due it's lack of viability, now go ahead and tell all the OU players to bring lucario in all their teams and find an easy way to build it around without being an offense.

 

 

Answering first page arguments on another post, dw, be patient.

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 12:58 PM, caioxlive13 said:

More healty that reuniclus Calm Mind, Acid Armor, Stored Power and Recover ; Cofagrius Haze, Will-o-Wisp, hex, Pain Split; And Chansey Eviolite and Blissey with SoftBoiled, Toxic, Teleport, and seismic toss ; All in the Same team.

 

For sure, really healthy, want to know the difference between them both?

 

The first one (Cloyster king's rock) got few solid counters due to this RNG based factor. (The most solid one around 4% of usage)

 

While that core gets destroyed by hydreigon taunt easily, just mentioned 1 of lots of counters to that core, here's another, lucario nasty plot, could keep going on, but I'm to lazy to teach you about how stall is healthy since it's a play method.

 

On 6/29/2021 at 8:30 AM, caioxlive13 said:
 

image.png

 image.png.011acea2a6f4a0699eeef6732a55a94a.png
PvP metagame is so boring...

If you think that walls only appear in OU, you're wrong.Check this set of umbreon, a UU wall that has been used in OU image.png.83bcafaa0d0074cab1fca32f009f47b9.png 
It is boring this, players create strategy to win those walls supremacy, and if succeds, wall players make a appeal to ban this.

 

Lmao, wow, a wall in a metagame, what a surprise bro, there's millions of walls, all of them have counters in their respective tiers, does that surprise you? Noice.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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I vote in favor, and I think that the majority vote the same, but what if it is not healthy, is to play harassment, put 6 walls and exhaust the rival, that is disgusting, if "it is a method of play" but not it is healthy neither for the enemy nor for the one who uses it. Block king rock, and put a wall limit on ranked.

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On 6/30/2021 at 4:13 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

So time to start answering this posts, as I said i'd be open to answer an against argument, and I will.

 

"-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed."

 

OU metagame is dominated by Balance teams, not by stall. 

 

Balance teams > Offensive teams
Defensive teams > Balance teams

Offensive teams > Defensive teams

 

As you can see all the kind of cores can be destroyed by another one. Balance includes all kind of balances, offensive teams like bulky offense, HO or standard Offense can end with a stall team easily.

 

"-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp. "

 

Based easy core that gets destroyed with magnezone + any fighting type.

 

(In answer to all your calcs): This is where you give me a point, as I said, cloyster has lots of ways to get countered, but what if cloyster from nowhere does a flinch thanks to it's abusive 41% chance to flinch a mon lol, even with ice shard you have a 10% to flinch, the only solid counter inside those calcs (which I answered you with that as a counter on my whisps) is any kind of lucario set with priority.

 

"-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring"

 

Lol, those got banned for the same reason king's rock will get banned for, they're abusive and their counters are used a few only.

 

In regard, if you defend that "cloyster is ez to wall", check the ONLY SOLID COUNTER cloyster has on OU usage is (Close to drop to UU, but didn't drop, so it's UUBL I think, i'll rectifiy if I'm wrong about it's an UUBL rn).

 

To summarize my arguments against yours: Any kind of team can be played right now on OU, and OU ain't boring, your analysis is wrong, you are limitated to only-ou mons, there's millions of UU/NU mons who're really viable on OU and which are about to rise to OU.

 

Examples: Venusaur, Weavile, Crobat, Heracross, Aerodactyl, Roserade, etc... (Need to say only weavile and aerodactyl about to go up to OU, I don't think the rest will, only heracross has a chance.)

 

And about "Lol cloyster got lots of solid counters", yknow how annoying is to have a nice counter and well built team vs cloyster and get flinched? All your calcs have the risk to lose against a flinch (except conkeldurr, which I consider a good check to cloyster too), it only has 1 damn solid counter at it has a shitty usage due to its lack of viability in OU nowadays if not used inside an Offense team.

 

image.png.784745ac3d59c9a8fe94d7ad667352d8.png

 

 

"
"-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed."

 

OU metagame is dominated by Balance teams, not by stall. 

 

Balance teams > Offensive teams
Defensive teams > Balance teams

Offensive teams > Defensive teams
"
I am talking to my own experience and assisting some matchs in and out of pvp. in 10 match, at least 6 have a team with 4 our more walls, and i assist most match from different players, not assist only one guy in pvp.

"

As you can see all the kind of cores can be destroyed by another one. Balance includes all kind of balances, offensive teams like bulky offense, HO or standard Offense can end with a stall team easily.

 

"-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp. "

 

Based easy core that gets destroyed with magnezone + any fighting type.


Skarmory can't be destroyed with a mienshao, you'll switch to pick up magnezone, and skarmory set up stealth rock.
And, Magnezone is most used with choice scarf HP Fire, to trap scizor, one of top meta pokemons. If you use choice scarf, you'll locked and can be easily knocked out with a focus sash fighting type, or pokemon that use Close Combat, or some rare sets of hydreigon Mixed SuperPower.
Some teams offense can be easiest countered by a Blissey, when you switch to a pyshical attacker because special damare are worst against blissey, you get poisoned by a Toxic! and they change to a physical tanker, and kept changing.

"

(In answer to all your calcs): This is where you give me a point, as I said, cloyster has lots of ways to get countered, but what if cloyster from nowhere does a flinch thanks to it's abusive 41% chance to flinch a mon lol, even with ice shard you have a 10% to flinch, the only solid counter inside those calcs (which I answered you with that as a counter on my whisps) is any kind of lucario set with priority.

 

"-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring"

 

Lol, those got banned for the same reason king's rock will get banned for, they're abusive and their counters are used a few only.

 

In regard, if you defend that "cloyster is ez to wall", check the ONLY SOLID COUNTER cloyster has on OU usage is (Close to drop to UU, but didn't drop, so it's UUBL I think, i'll rectifiy if I'm wrong about it's an UUBL rn).

"
41% flinch chance is not abusive, i need to remember Air Slash togekiss, with sereene grace, is a f*** 60% chance to flinch? And is not that the pokemon has low usage that you don't use them. Haxorus and Darmanitan have less thah 10% usage and some people use him in our teams. We need to check the sucess of pokemon, that have more than 2% usage
Like Lucario, have 49% sucess, in 4% usage.
And YoungRo is not lieing, I, CaioXLive, in 1 year of game, don't see staff nerf ANY DEFENSIVE STATREGY, only offense strategy.

"

To summarize my arguments against yours: Any kind of team can be played right now on OU, and OU ain't boring, your analysis is wrong, you are limitated to only-ou mons, there's millions of UU/NU mons who're really viable on OU and which are about to rise to OU.

 

Examples: Venusaur, Weavile, Crobat, Heracross, Aerodactyl, Roserade, etc... (Need to say only weavile and aerodactyl about to go up to OU, I don't think the rest will, only heracross has a chance.)

 

And about "Lol cloyster got lots of solid counters", yknow how annoying is to have a nice counter and well built team vs cloyster and get flinched? All your calcs have the risk to lose against a flinch (except conkeldurr, which I consider a good check to cloyster too), it only has 1 damn solid counter at it has a shitty usage due to its lack of viability in OU nowadays if not used inside an Offense team.

"
Any Kind of team, but we have a problem: OU tanks. We don't have slot for UU/NU team pokemons because we need to put 6 Wallbreakers in our team, because we only find wall in OU, some garchomps and scizor, but you understand.

And the chance of flinch, i says AGAIN, cloyster with king's rock only have 50% percent flinch, if you think this abusive, let me informate that togekiss with serene grace have 60% flinch chance. And in the broken RNG, depend of lucky is not a choice. Create a solid strategy and counter this "OP Stragegy", like PT players, we did, you can did too.

 

 

On 6/22/2021 at 5:34 AM, JorgeFirebolt said:

There's no need to explain why, it's frustrating to play a PvP, be about to win, you still got a counter vs Cloyster, and then, from nowhere, when cloyster just sets up Shell smash, tada, you get flinched!

 

It's literally one of the most unhealthy PvP items. For those who say that "King's rock is ok 'cause paraflinch exist eksdee", paraflinch can be stopped by lots of things like natural cure users, electric types, or heal bell cleric users, while king's rock cloyster is just a spammy unhealthy mon with no solid counter if boosted and flinch is done to it's counter.

 

It's not healthy to have a broken wallbreaker such as Cloyster with a 41% to flinch it's enemy and a 10% on each move. I bet I'm not the only one who was having a good match, close to win, then king's rock cloyster comes from nowhere and flinches the pokemon that can stop him. (Example: Magnezone, reuniclus, metagross, chansey/blissey at full health, cofagrigus, etc...)

 

Just ban it, it's the most unhealthy thing you can see on this PvP metagame. I'm open to any against argument and to answer them.

Ifyou want to ask ban King's rock for being too "OP", ban too Eviolite, Focus Band, Quick Claw, Choice Itens, Mails

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 5:11 PM, CREELAST said:

I vote in favor, and I think that the majority vote the same, but what if it is not healthy, is to play harassment, put 6 walls and exhaust the rival, that is disgusting, if "it is a method of play" but not it is healthy neither for the enemy nor for the one who uses it. Block king rock, and put a wall limit on ranked.

YES! A player that understand.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 6:06 PM, caioxlive13 said:


Skarmory can't be destroyed with a mienshao, you'll switch to pick up magnezone, and skarmory set up stealth rock.
And, Magnezone is most used with choice scarf HP Fire, to trap scizor, one of top meta pokemons. If you use choice scarf, you'll locked and can be easily knocked out with a focus sash fighting type, or pokemon that use Close Combat, or some rare sets of hydreigon Mixed SuperPower.
Some teams offense can be easiest countered by a Blissey, when you switch to a pyshical attacker because special damare are worst against blissey, you get poisoned by a Toxic! and they change to a physical tanker, and kept changing.

 

I forgot to mention, If magnezone try to kill skarmory, he have sturdy, and can use Whrilwind to take out magnezone and remove skarmory to the field.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 6:06 PM, caioxlive13 said:


And the chance of flinch, i says AGAIN, cloyster with king's rock only have 50% percent flinch, if you think this abusive, let me informate that togekiss with serene grace have 60% flinch chance. And in the broken RNG, depend of lucky is not a choice. Create a solid strategy and counter this "OP Stragegy", like PT players, we did, you can did too.

 

Togekiss have air slash, 30% flinch, but serene grace multiples by 2 this chance. 30% x 2 = 60%
And ALL META SETS of togekiss, or like PT players call, Togeflinch, have the air slash move and serene grace ability. But we don't cry like players of EN/ES chat and don't ask a ban from him. we only keep playing, we know how to counter him.

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 6:30 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Togekiss have air slash, 30% flinch, but serene grace multiples by 2 this chance. 30% x 2 = 60%
And ALL META SETS of togekiss, or like PT players call, Togeflinch, have the air slash move and serene grace ability. But we don't cry like players of EN/ES chat and don't ask a ban from him. we only keep playing, we know how to counter him.

 

If you don't counter a single team with your CopyPasted team, we don't have any interference in this, but don't appeal something that are "OP" but are a single counter of your team, and too much players use to play pvp and farm BP. I sayed before: Thanks to brazilian team Toca, BP of legendarys are limited. Battle Frontier don't give too much BP. Only have PvP to farm BP, and All tiers are infestated of Walls. And now you Want a "Healty PvP", but ban this and end the counter of Walls, that leave all game boring, not to have some walls, and yes because have 3, 4, 5 or 6 Walls in one team. And the most part of walls is only for take damage and use toxic + Recover moves, winning with Forfeits(In OU, all walls are most used Tankers. In UU and NU, Whimsicott and Umbreon are pokemons that been used with Wall Spread, but support moves like TailWind, Heal Bell...). if of 3 walls of a team, one is usable to cure the own team from statuses and setup Things like Reflect and Light Screen, TailWind, Defoger, Resuming: With Stat defensive, but more used like a support, i don't talk anything. 

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Posted (edited)

I am calm and relax, i don't send one "SHUT UP" to players that love play with walls, only want to win with forfeit, and want a ban from king's rock, because i don't want to be banned.

 

 

And, pokemmo has making a Update , and the most part of players hate him. The 11/05/2021 changelog. He don't ban another thing, in this case a item, that players that DON'T HOLD GAME loves it, and receive 2 hates from most part of community, it is negative to game and for community.

 

 

Edited by caioxlive13
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1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

And the chance of flinch, i says AGAIN, cloyster with king's rock only have 50% percent flinch, if you think this abusive, let me informate that togekiss with serene grace have 60% flinch chance. And in the broken RNG, depend of lucky is not a choice. Create a solid strategy and counter this "OP Stragegy", like PT players, we did, you can did too.

Togekiss has way more counters that can outspeed it than cloyster. Literally togekiss can be stopped by lots of OU mons

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On 6/30/2021 at 7:56 PM, JorgeFirebolt said:

Togekiss has way more counters that can outspeed it than cloyster. Literally togekiss can be stopped by lots of OU mons

Let i inform: Togekiss pass every potential counter, if timid 31 Speed 252 EV Speed Choice Scarf.

Even Jolteon can't pass him.

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 8:35 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Let i inform: Togekiss pass every potential counter, if timid 31 Speed 252 EV Speed Choice Scarf.

Even Jolteon can't pass him.

 

217 Speed, with Timid nature, Choice Scarf, and Max IV and EV Speed

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11 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Let i inform: Togekiss pass every potential counter, if timid 31 Speed 252 EV Speed Choice Scarf.

Even Jolteon can't pass him.

 

Granted that is togekiss worst set in theory, how's it relevant? That set funny enough struggles to deal with bulky rotom w, chansey, blissey, jolteon, dragonite, ttar, do you need me to continue to list more pokemons? 

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15 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

Let i inform: Togekiss pass every potential counter, if timid 31 Speed 252 EV Speed Choice Scarf.

Even Jolteon can't pass him.

 

That set is easier to wall than nasty plot, I'll stop discussing with you since you're comparing a threat with 1 counter with another pokemon that has around 3-4 solid counters in OU

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Just now, JorgeFirebolt said:

That set is easier to wall than nasty plot, I'll stop discussing with you since you're comparing a threat with 1 counter with another pokemon that has around 3-4 solid counters in OU

You have too much ideas to counter Togeflinch, why you can't build a counter for Cloyster King's rock?

 

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Why do you compare toge with Cloyster? Boosted there is no poke without usable enhancer that is faster than it, it has the ability to flinch the entire meta, which not even togekiss can and it is given more counters, you know what is ironic? Imagine that you have a Conkeldurr as your only revenge cloyster option, Now, imagine having the bad luck (That item is pure luck) that this cloyster throws ice shard at you and backs up x times in a row, Nice answer, no? Don't try to defend something that you can't, no one is complaining that that ruins the stall, ruins every style of play, get it in your head, fake out is an answer, but after losing 3 mons in between, it doesn't matter what die because I already bust your equipment, besides that it is a late sweeper, luck trying to have so many surprises available, even so we get off the subject, the problem here is the setback of the item, which makes it impossible to control a cloyster with its natural count the worst thing is all this is that it is something that is activated with luck, it is not in your hands to be able to activate it or not, besides that it not only affects OU it is usable in all tiers and unfortunately sometimes it influences because some go and They use it in trolling mode, but hey, what I'm going to is that you learn to open your eyes and realize that this item is insane, the only thing that it produces is to promote more the way of winning by rng than by skill, on the other hand , if you have been walled 4918481949194 times, it is cos a of your buildeo and your way of playing, it is something that you must solve without needing any luck.

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6 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

You have too much ideas to counter Togeflinch, why you can't build a counter for Cloyster King's rock?

 

lmao, cause literally in all over the OU metagame there's only 1 solid counter which can survive after a flinch, I feel like you aint reading my answers, cause this is like the 5th time I said this, if cloyster had no king's rock, it would have the same amount of counters togekiss has nowadays on OU.

 

My point is cloyster is a luck-based mon that with shell-smash that gives him an amazing speedcontrol + nice attack combined with skill link and using a hax item which benefits him a lot (41% to flinch if hit rock blast or icicle Spear which is insane) makes him only have 1 damn solid counter in OU which its usage is low as fuck and has a small viability, this mon is called "Lucario", 4% of usage in season 4, and was close to drop to UU if it wasnt about it has no solid counters or good entries against it.

 

Now please, I tell you to read patiently all my answers, and ig that's it.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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3 hours ago, JorgeFirebolt said:

lmao, cause literally in all over the OU metagame there's only 1 solid counter which can survive after a flinch, I feel like you aint reading my answers, cause this is like the 5th time I said this, if cloyster had no king's rock, it would have the same amount of counters togekiss has nowadays on OU.

 

My point is cloyster is a luck-based mon that with shell-smash that gives him an amazing speedcontrol + nice attack combined with skill link and using a hax item which benefits him a lot (41% to flinch if hit rock blast or icicle Spear which is insane) makes him only have 1 damn solid counter in OU which its usage is low as fuck and has a small viability, this mon is called "Lucario", 4% of usage in season 4, and was close to drop to UU if it wasnt about it has no solid counters or good entries against it.

 

Now please, I tell you to read patiently all my answers, and ig that's it.

1° - Usage don't represent anything, only YOU need to adapt your team to receive one pokemon to counter.
2° - Cloyster King's rock have a Weak point. If hold King's rock, all moves special can kill if supereffective. Cloyster is more used focus sash that king's rock, because king's rock don't prevent him from take a hit and faint OHKO
3° - Like i sayed: If you want a King's rock BAN, ask another itens "OP" ban, like EVIOLITE, focus band, quick claw, choice itens...
4° - Lucky is something that we can't depend in RNG of pokemmo.
5° - If you have truant to adapt your team and pick a counter for a cloyster, because him is a "low usage", don't ask a ban of him.

 

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26 minutes ago, caioxlive13 said:

1° - Usage don't represent anything, only YOU need to adapt your team to receive one pokemon to counter.
2° - Cloyster King's rock have a Weak point. If hold King's rock, all moves special can kill if supereffective. Cloyster is more used focus sash that king's rock, because king's rock don't prevent him from take a hit and faint OHKO
3° - Like i sayed: If you want a King's rock BAN, ask another itens "OP" ban, like EVIOLITE, focus band, quick claw, choice itens...
4° - Lucky is something that we can't depend in RNG of pokemmo.
5° - If you have truant to adapt your team and pick a counter for a cloyster, because him is a "low usage", don't ask a ban of him.

 

1) usage represents a lot of things actually
2) It doens't represent a weakness, it's just cloyster, bulky def, low sp.def, stop trying to use this as argument.
3) Eviolite isn't op by any means, focus band isn't used, quick claw you're right, we also want it banned, choice items are OP where lmfao
4) ??? You can't depend on it, yet you ask for it to not be banned? hypocrisy much?
5) The problem isn't the pokemon but the item, you can't really understand this? Even with like 10 people here trying to explain to you? Just stop commenting, you'll look less like a clown.

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12 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:

If you don't counter a single team with your CopyPasted team, we don't have any interference in this, but don't appeal something that are "OP" but are a single counter of your team, and too much players use to play pvp and farm BP. I sayed before: Thanks to brazilian team Toca, BP of legendarys are limited. Battle Frontier don't give too much BP. Only have PvP to farm BP, and All tiers are infestated of Walls. And now you Want a "Healty PvP", but ban this and end the counter of Walls, that leave all game boring, not to have some walls, and yes because have 3, 4, 5 or 6 Walls in one team. And the most part of walls is only for take damage and use toxic + Recover moves, winning with Forfeits(In OU, all walls are most used Tankers. In UU and NU, Whimsicott and Umbreon are pokemons that been used with Wall Spread, but support moves like TailWind, Heal Bell...). if of 3 walls of a team, one is usable to cure the own team from statuses and setup Things like Reflect and Light Screen, TailWind, Defoger, Resuming: With Stat defensive, but more used like a support, i don't talk anything. 

Lol, you're obsessed with my OU team or what? Haven't you seen a Venusaur in OU in your life or a weavile sweeping? LMAO, what's wrong with it bro? Let Venusaur #1 and chill.

 

Btw, since you're sick and impatient to know what my team is, it's a pure balance, with 3 walls, 1 SpDef wall (which resists mostly all special attackers and stop setup special sweepers), 2 Def walls (Venusaur as an status blocker and wores off toxic spikes if needed while walls some threats and it's able to set up some damage and resist some OU threats, and Hippowdon, the most common physical weather control in all OU behind Tyranitar, which I use to wear off setup sweepers such as lefto spdef conkeldurr, dragonite DD, etc.....), then we have 1 scarf trick user which I use as speed control, rotom-wash scarf, which is an amazing way to start a duel, while in the other hand the 2 other pokes are one of them an amazing wallbreaker (Conkeldurr allout attacker) and then we got Weavile as a sweeper, now stop crying and complaining about my team being full of walls, your arguments are trash and based on "Stall is disgusting, so I dont arguee with stall players eksdee".

 

Now that I proved you that my OU team ain't filled of walls, stop complaining, crying, and calling all the players you see using a balance wall lovers.

 

Oh, btw, all the teams I use are made by me, so stop accusing me of copypasting OU teams, I literally built everything I used on this game (Can't tell the same on Gen7OU, but that's not the case, this is MMO OU). Idk where you saw a team like mine, but I did teambuild that team after I won the seasonal tournament seeing the leak of defensive things I had with gengar + gliscor, so this is like a V2 of the team I used on the seasonal tournament #1.

 

Anyways, won't waste more time with you, you're a sick player which your arguments are based on accusing me to be a copypaste stall user, while all your accusations are wrong sadly lmao, next time, elaborate some better stuff and try not slandering me.

 

And about the player who posted a clip of me winning a BR twitch streamer, what's wrong with me winning someone on rankeds with a team made by me with good moves? Didn't know that was illegal bro, sorry.

 

And I think this is my last answer, here's my opinion on "stall is unhealthy":

 

Stall, as Offensive teams or Balance teams, are a way to build, building is healthy, Cloyster having an RNG chance to fuck and ruin your duel isn't healthy. You need to learn to let everyone build whatever the heck they want to and let them use what they want respecting the metagame, that's what you got wrong, you think this game is based off in stall which most players use balance/offense on tournaments to win in early rounds while stall in finals (But that's some cases, Balance is more frequent in all your rounds if you watch them carefully), since a Balance with a good taunt user can stop an stall, and an Offensive with a nice wallbreaker or stallbreaker can trash a whole stall with 1 setup move (Hydreigon for example trashes lots of stall teams being at +2).

 

To summarize, you're defending something that limitates players to build balance and offense, and that's unhealthy, you can't limitate players to build whatever you want them to build, let them build in any style they want, I agree stall can be a shit to deal with, but my friend, even on the team I've shown you which is a balance, I've ways to end vs a stall, if you haven't won a stall in your life, it's because you're mind closed and haven't seen any good stallbreaker/wallbreaker.

 

That's it, wish you learn your points are wrong and trying to slander me on a public post was a big error. See ya

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18 hours ago, CREELAST said:

Yo voto a favor, y creo que la mayoría vota lo mismo, pero lo que si no es sano, es jugar al acoso, poner 6 muros y agotar al rival, eso da asco, si "es un método de juego" pero no es saludable ni para el enemigo ni para quien lo usa. Bloquea la roca rey y pon un límite de muro en la clasificación.

Really? limit wall?
 

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