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Ban king's rock from PvP


JorgeFirebolt

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There's no need to explain why, it's frustrating to play a PvP, be about to win, you still got a counter vs Cloyster, and then, from nowhere, when cloyster just sets up Shell smash, tada, you get flinched!

 

It's literally one of the most unhealthy PvP items. For those who say that "King's rock is ok 'cause paraflinch exist eksdee", paraflinch can be stopped by lots of things like natural cure users, electric types, or heal bell cleric users, while king's rock cloyster is just a spammy unhealthy mon with no solid counter if boosted and flinch is done to it's counter.

 

It's not healthy to have a broken wallbreaker such as Cloyster with a 41% to flinch it's enemy and a 10% on each move. I bet I'm not the only one who was having a good match, close to win, then king's rock cloyster comes from nowhere and flinches the pokemon that can stop him. (Example: Magnezone, reuniclus, metagross, chansey/blissey at full health, cofagrigus, etc...)

 

Just ban it, it's the most unhealthy thing you can see on this PvP metagame. I'm open to any against argument and to answer them.

Edited by JorgeFirebolt
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3 hours ago, Imperial said:

I completely agree with the suggestion but there are already similar threads about this by @CHUCKunso and @Lvkee

 

 

We need more threads like those probably. In one of them, Kyu actually talked with us for a moment, but the issue still was not addressed so I guess we should turn the dev's attention that way

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16 hours ago, RysPicz said:

We need more threads like those probably. In one of them, Kyu actually talked with us for a moment, but the issue still was not addressed so I guess we should turn the dev's attention that way

I feel like he already gave his final statement with "We'd already decided last month(?) that the items need to broadcast their existence on sendout, but I'd be interested in rates adjustments as well." and hoping for anything other than that is just really wishful thinking at this point.

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1 hour ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

I feel like he already gave his final statement with "We'd already decided last month(?) that the items need to broadcast their existence on sendout, but I'd be interested in rates adjustments as well." and hoping for anything other than that is just really wishful thinking at this point.

Honestly, I'd be totally fine if King's Rock would activate only on the first hit when a multi-hit move is used- I would see that as a permanent fix for this particular item

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Hello dear friend! Want to know what's really frustrating?

PVP Metagame is broken, but not because of the Shell Smash+Kings Rock, i agree with you, it's very uncomfortable to lose the game because of RNG Flinch, although, the

Cloyster with Kings Rock is not a problem, but a symptom of it.

 

The PokeMMO PVP Metagame is totally dominates by Walls (Red= Offensive Pokémon, Blue=Defensive Pokémon, Purple= Offensive Pokémon with Defensive Set's)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Even in smaller numbers , Offensive Pokemon can easily be covered by simple core of Walls.

 

-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed.

 

-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp.

 

-The Kings Rock Cloyster was bron just to have some a offensive chance of dealing with all these Walls that dominate the Over Used meta game without this item he's pratically lost in the middle of so many Defensive Pokémon.

 

-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring

 

- There are offensive ways to deal with this strategy, like: 

Conkeldur :

image.thumb.png.b52e2b600396bfc87666b9d91e514ce8.png

 

Rotom W (this one doesn't even need investiment in defense):

image.png.e1847829e7ed006eccd6e8a0dd8cdd4c.png

 

Magnezone:

image.png.dc0cff02408d5e1d13ed123753db3711.png

 

Vacuum Wave+Lucario kills Cloyster regardless of the situation.

 

-Anyway, several reasons show that maybe only knowledge is lacking for players who are suffering for this strategy; not everything is solved with a ban, whenever something offensive is banned, many players who like and enjoy playing this way feel even less willing to play, and for the meta game to remain healthy, it is ideal to seek viability for all playstyles, which currently does not happen. Probably the Staff will listen to you, and ban Kings rock from pvp, as they clearly favor defensive play style (or don't know what they're doing with pvp).

 

Thanks for Read! by a better PokeMMO for all.

 

 

Olá caro amigo! Você quer saber o que é realmente frustrante?

O metagame do PVP atualmente está quebrado, e não é por causa do Cloyster+Kings Rock, eu concordo que deve ser chato perder por causa de RNG Flinch, porém, O Cloyster de Kings Rocks é apenas um sintoma de uma doença chamada Excesso de Walls.

 

O PVP do PokeMMO é totalmente dominado por Walls, basta ver abaixo na Pokédex:

 

 (Vermelho= Pokemons Ofensivos, Azul=Pokémons Defensivos, Roxo= Pokemons Ofensivos mas que possuem sets Defensivos)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Mesmo estando em número menor, é facil ver a dominancia das Walls  em Over Used, onde os Pokémons Ofensivos são facilmente cobertos por Cores simples de Walls.

 

-Combos como Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom conseguem com facilidade cubrir totalmente os Pokemon ofensivo do Meta game, e não são as unicas formas defensivas não, existem várias... Chansey+Coffa, Ferrothorn+Blissey+Milotic e por ai vai.

 

-Por causa da falta dos Lendários e Hidden Abilitys, comum em outros meta games o jogo se tornou extremamente defensivo, Isso tudo junto a também a falta de formas de punir trocas do oponente já que Knock Off e Outrage são golpes tao nerfados no Pokemmo, resulta nesse spam de partidas cansativas. 

 

-Como eu havia dito antes o Kings Rock Cloyster nasce pra ter alguma chance de lidar contra todas essas Walls, nós jogadores Ofensivos dependemos de 50% de chance de Fllinch, pra ter chance de vencer uma partida, isso tudo depois de conseguir a oportunidade perfeita de usar Shell Smash com o Cloyster, é muito ganancioso da parte dos jogadores com times mais Defensivos, querer negar toda essa estratégia com uma simples troca pra uma Wall, Sem Kings Rock o Cloyster nao vai conseguir fazer praticamente nada nesse meta game infestado de Pokemon Tank, isso é muito frustrante pra quem gastou dinheiro, tempo e dedicação com seu Cloyster.

 

-Maioria dos Nerfs no PokeMMO são em Pokemons Ofensivos (SD+Garchomp,Draco Meteor+Hydreigon...), Continuar nerfando Pokemons Ofensivos, só desanima mais ainda quem gosta de jogar dessa forma, e deixa as partidas cada vez mais longas e massantes.

 

-Também existem formas Ofensivas de Lidar com essa estratégia, entao tentem sair da zona de conforto de vocês e achar que tudo se defende tankando. 

 

Conkeldur(Presente em maioria dos times) :

image.thumb.png.b52e2b600396bfc87666b9d91e514ce8.png

 

Rotom W (Presente em maioria dos times, e o Rotom usado no calculo, nem era defensivo, se for é pior ainda pro Cloyster)

image.png.e1847829e7ed006eccd6e8a0dd8cdd4c.png

 

Magnezone:

image.png.dc0cff02408d5e1d13ed123753db3711.png

 

Set Special do Lucario é 100% Counter de Cloyster que possui baixa Defesa Special (Principalmente depois de Shell Smash), Vacuum Wave mata Cloyster em qualquer situação.

 

-De qualquer forma, vários motivos mostram, que o Set do Cloyster nao é tão abusivo assim(Pelomenos nao tao abusivo quanto Chansey's e Blisseys ganhando jogos sozinhas, apenas por você nao conseguir mata-las), os jogadores precisam entender que conhecimento é uma arma muito importante no jogo, da mesma forma que nós jogadores ofensivos criamos sets pra lidar com essa supremacia de Walls que estamos vivendo no jogo, os mais defensivos podem fazer o mesmo, Nem tudo se resolve com ban, a falta das Hidden Ability já restringem e muito a vida de ambos os players, tanto ofensivo quanto defensivos, e deveria ser por isso que todos os jogadores deveria estar clamando, e não pra banir uma estratégia que você não consegue lidar. É muito provavél que a Staff acabe banindo Kings rock do PVP, como já foi banido em outras temporadas, porém quando existe uma parcialidade nos banimentos já que raras as vezes são banidas estratégias defensivas, a cada dia jogadores ofensivos desistem do jogo, por que percebem que existe uma preferencia pela parte da organização do jogo, a respeito do que é considerado Over Power ou não.

 

Obrigado por ler! Juntos por um PokeMMO melhor.

 
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1 minute ago, YoungRo said:
Olá caro amigo! Você quer saber o que é realmente frustrante?

O metagame do PVP atualmente está quebrado, e não é por causa do Cloyster+Kings Rock, eu concordo que deve ser chato perder por causa de RNG Flinch, porém, O Cloyster de Kings Rocks é apenas um sintoma de uma doença chamada Excesso de Walls.

 

O PVP do PokeMMO é totalmente dominado por Walls, basta ver abaixo na Pokédex:

 

 (Vermelho= Pokemons Ofensivos, Azul=Pokémons Defensivos, Roxo= Pokemons Ofensivos mas que possuem sets Defensivos)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Mesmo estando em número menor, é facil ver a dominancia das Walls  em Over Used, onde os Pokémons Ofensivos são facilmente cobertos por Cores simples de Walls.

 

-Combos como Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom conseguem com facilidade cubrir totalmente os Pokemon ofensivo do Meta game, e não são as unicas formas defensivas não, existem várias... Chansey+Coffa, Ferrothorn+Blissey+Milotic e por ai vai.

 

-Por causa da falta dos Lendários e Hidden Abilitys, comum em outros meta games o jogo se tornou extremamente defensivo, Isso tudo junto a também a falta de formas de punir trocas do oponente já que Knock Off e Outrage são golpes tao nerfados no Pokemmo, resulta nesse spam de partidas cansativas. 

 

-Como eu havia dito antes o Kings Rock Cloyster nasce pra ter alguma chance de lidar contra todas essas Walls, nós jogadores Ofensivos dependemos de 50% de chance de Fllinch, pra ter chance de vencer uma partida, isso tudo depois de conseguir a oportunidade perfeita de usar Shell Smash com o Cloyster, é muito ganancioso da parte dos jogadores com times mais Defensivos, querer negar toda essa estratégia com uma simples troca pra uma Wall, Sem Kings Rock o Cloyster nao vai conseguir fazer praticamente nada nesse meta game infestado de Pokemon Tank, isso é muito frustrante pra quem gastou dinheiro, tempo e dedicação com seu Cloyster.

 

-Maioria dos Nerfs no PokeMMO são em Pokemons Ofensivos (SD+Garchomp,Draco Meteor+Hydreigon...), Continuar nerfando Pokemons Ofensivos, só desanima mais ainda quem gosta de jogar dessa forma, e deixa as partidas cada vez mais longas e massantes.

 

-Também existem formas Ofensivas de Lidar com essa estratégia, entao tentem sair da zona de conforto de vocês e achar que tudo se defende tankando. 


 

Eu concordo com você.

35 minutes ago, YoungRo said:
Hello dear friend! Want to know what's really frustrating?

PVP Metagame is broken, but not because of the Shell Smash+Kings Rock, i agree with you, it's very uncomfortable to lose the game because of RNG Flinch, although, the

Cloyster with Kings Rock is not a problem, but a symptom of it.

 

The PokeMMO PVP Metagame is totally dominates by Walls (Red= Offensive Pokémon, Blue=Defensive Pokémon, Purple= Offensive Pokémon with Defensive Set's)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Even in smaller numbers , Offensive Pokemon can easily be covered by simple core of Walls.

 

-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed.

 

-Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom-> This core is so fucking famous and is in most balance teams in pvp.

 

-The Kings Rock Cloyster was bron just to have some a offensive chance of dealing with all these Walls that dominate the Over Used meta game without this item he's pratically lost in the middle of so many Defensive Pokémon.

 

-The vast majority of nerfs in PVP are Offensive Pokemon, such as Swords Dance+Garchomp and Draco Meteor+Hydreigon, so i think if the keep nerfing it the meta game will just get slower and boring


 

This is true. I agree with you

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i need to agree. the most part of players at trainer or novice trainer don't are competitive players. Walls make this players with angry, like that players don't have a solid team, and lose easy to plaers that keep holding game.

It is boring, and it is the best way to farm bp, once time that battle frontier don't give too much BP, and legendarys, thanks to Brazilian team Toca, don't give much bp.
It is descomfortable you are playing, and façe a wall team, keep 30 minutes in match, and in end, doesn't receive too much BP and Matchmaking points.

 

 

On 6/28/2021 at 3:26 PM, YoungRo said:
Olá caro amigo! Você quer saber o que é realmente frustrante?

O metagame do PVP atualmente está quebrado, e não é por causa do Cloyster+Kings Rock, eu concordo que deve ser chato perder por causa de RNG Flinch, porém, O Cloyster de Kings Rocks é apenas um sintoma de uma doença chamada Excesso de Walls.

 

O PVP do PokeMMO é totalmente dominado por Walls, basta ver abaixo na Pokédex:

 

 (Vermelho= Pokemons Ofensivos, Azul=Pokémons Defensivos, Roxo= Pokemons Ofensivos mas que possuem sets Defensivos)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Mesmo estando em número menor, é facil ver a dominancia das Walls  em Over Used, onde os Pokémons Ofensivos são facilmente cobertos por Cores simples de Walls.

 

-Combos como Skarmory+Blissey+Rotom conseguem com facilidade cubrir totalmente os Pokemon ofensivo do Meta game, e não são as unicas formas defensivas não, existem várias... Chansey+Coffa, Ferrothorn+Blissey+Milotic e por ai vai.

 

-Por causa da falta dos Lendários e Hidden Abilitys, comum em outros meta games o jogo se tornou extremamente defensivo, Isso tudo junto a também a falta de formas de punir trocas do oponente já que Knock Off e Outrage são golpes tao nerfados no Pokemmo, resulta nesse spam de partidas cansativas. 

 

-Como eu havia dito antes o Kings Rock Cloyster nasce pra ter alguma chance de lidar contra todas essas Walls, nós jogadores Ofensivos dependemos de 50% de chance de Fllinch, pra ter chance de vencer uma partida, isso tudo depois de conseguir a oportunidade perfeita de usar Shell Smash com o Cloyster, é muito ganancioso da parte dos jogadores com times mais Defensivos, querer negar toda essa estratégia com uma simples troca pra uma Wall, Sem Kings Rock o Cloyster nao vai conseguir fazer praticamente nada nesse meta game infestado de Pokemon Tank, isso é muito frustrante pra quem gastou dinheiro, tempo e dedicação com seu Cloyster.

 

-Maioria dos Nerfs no PokeMMO são em Pokemons Ofensivos (SD+Garchomp,Draco Meteor+Hydreigon...), Continuar nerfando Pokemons Ofensivos, só desanima mais ainda quem gosta de jogar dessa forma, e deixa as partidas cada vez mais longas e massantes.

 

-Também existem formas Ofensivas de Lidar com essa estratégia, entao tentem sair da zona de conforto de vocês e achar que tudo se defende tankando. 

 

Conkeldur(Presente em maioria dos times) :

image.thumb.png.b52e2b600396bfc87666b9d91e514ce8.png

 

Rotom W (Presente em maioria dos times, e o Rotom usado no calculo, nem era defensivo, se for é pior ainda pro Cloyster)

image.png.e1847829e7ed006eccd6e8a0dd8cdd4c.png

 

Magnezone:

image.png.dc0cff02408d5e1d13ed123753db3711.png

 

Set Special do Lucario é 100% Counter de Cloyster que possui baixa Defesa Special (Principalmente depois de Shell Smash), Vacuum Wave mata Cloyster em qualquer situação.

 

-De qualquer forma, vários motivos mostram, que o Set do Cloyster nao é tão abusivo assim(Pelomenos nao tao abusivo quanto Chansey's e Blisseys ganhando jogos sozinhas, apenas por você nao conseguir mata-las), os jogadores precisam entender que conhecimento é uma arma muito importante no jogo, da mesma forma que nós jogadores ofensivos criamos sets pra lidar com essa supremacia de Walls que estamos vivendo no jogo, os mais defensivos podem fazer o mesmo, Nem tudo se resolve com ban, a falta das Hidden Ability já restringem e muito a vida de ambos os players, tanto ofensivo quanto defensivos, e deveria ser por isso que todos os jogadores deveria estar clamando, e não pra banir uma estratégia que você não consegue lidar. É muito provavél que a Staff acabe banindo Kings rock do PVP, como já foi banido em outras temporadas, porém quando existe uma parcialidade nos banimentos já que raras as vezes são banidas estratégias defensivas, a cada dia jogadores ofensivos desistem do jogo, por que percebem que existe uma preferencia pela parte da organização do jogo, a respeito do que é considerado Over Power ou não.

 

Obrigado por ler! Juntos por um PokeMMO melhor.

 

Eu tenho que concordar. A maior parte dos jogadores no elo Treinador/Treinador Novato são jogadores casuais. Não são competitivos. E ficam com raiva porque encaram um time comum de achar, daonde dos 6 pokemons, 4 ou mais são Walls. Dá raiva, afinal a maioria dos jogadores so tá lá pra farmar BP, afinal graças ao time brasileiro conhecido como Toca , os lendarios dão uma quantidade limitada de BP, e a Battle Frontier já não dá muitos tambem, so é usada mesmo pra upar nivel de pokemon.
Ja jogar sem hidden ou sem lendarios é pro jogo ser dificil e eu entendo, Mas tem que fazer algo contra essa supremacia dos jogadores defensivos.

A maioria dos nerfs que a staff faz são pateticos, tipo, pra que nerfar o drop rate dos itens duas vezes e o frisk? Pra que tirar o swords dance do garchomp? Os itens tavam ficando inflacionados, mas tem item que não mereçe valor mesmo por ser de compra unica, tipo, é justo $3k numa damp's rock? a quesão do swords dance é que é overpowered, como se não existisse will-o-wisp, haze... fora que a chansey eviolite, que é o pokemon que mais frustra jogadores em pvp, deixam quieto?

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8 hours ago, YoungRo said:
Hello dear friend! Want to know what's really frustrating?

PVP Metagame is broken, but not because of the Shell Smash+Kings Rock, i agree with you, it's very uncomfortable to lose the game because of RNG Flinch, although, the

Cloyster with Kings Rock is not a problem, but a symptom of it.

 

The PokeMMO PVP Metagame is totally dominates by Walls (Red= Offensive Pokémon, Blue=Defensive Pokémon, Purple= Offensive Pokémon with Defensive Set's)

image.png.2ac7611a53980f974f11262ab0cc2c33.png

 

Even in smaller numbers , Offensive Pokemon can easily be covered by simple core of Walls.

 

-Because of the lack of Hidden Ability's and Legendary, the meta game has become very defensive, There aren't many ways to punish opponent switches other than Pursuit and Stealth Rocks, as moves like Knock Off and Outrage have been heavily nerfed.

 

-Skarmory + Blissey + Rotom-> Este núcleo es tan jodidamente famoso y está en la mayoría de los equipos de equilibrio en pvp.

 

-El Kings Rock Cloyster fue tan solo para tener una oportunidad ofensiva de lidiar con todos estos Muros que dominan el metajuego Over Used sin este elemento que prácticamente perdió en medio de tantos Pokémon Defensivos.

 

-La gran mayoría de los nerfs en PVP son Pokémon ofensivos, como Swords Dance + Garchomp y Draco Meteor + Hydreigon, así que creo que si sigues nerfing, el metajuego se volverá más lento y aburrido.

 

- Hay formas ofensivas de lidiar con esta estrategia, como: 

Conkeldur :

image.thumb.png.b52e2b600396bfc87666b9d91e514ce8.png

 

Rotom W (este ni siquiera necesita inversión en defensa):

image.png.e1847829e7ed006eccd6e8a0dd8cdd4c.png

 

Magnezone:

image.png.dc0cff02408d5e1d13ed123753db3711.png

 

Vacuum Wave + Lucario mata a Cloyster independientemente de la situación.

 

-De todos modos, varias razones muestran que quizás solo falte conocimiento a los jugadores que están sufriendo por esta estrategia; no todo se resuelve con un baneo, siempre que se banea algo ofensivo, muchos jugadores a los que les gusta y disfrutan jugar de esta forma se sienten aún menos dispuestos a jugar, y para que el metajuego se mantenga sano, es ideal buscar viabilidad para todos los estilos de juego, lo que actualmente no sucede. Probablemente el Staff te escuchará y prohibirá Kings rock en el pvp, ya que claramente favorecen el estilo de juego defensivo (o no saben qué están haciendo con el pvp).

 

¡Gracias por leer! por un mejor PokeMMO para todos.

 

Are you really telling me that Kings rock is only allowed because walls are played in OU? I hope it's a joke, on the other hand, ladder usually plays more offensive side and balance, I have had the opportunity to watch games and only 1-3 of 10 teams are played stall / semi stall, even if it is the case, this It is not a reason to allow it, the item can be activated as it cannot, why adding an item that in quotes solves the stall issue if it depends on your luck to activate it? I know perfectly well that new players hate the stall, but that is no reason to be on the wrong and wrong side and want us all to get complicated by a wrong idea, kings rock not only affects defensive players, but also offensive players and not only to OU, in other countries I have also seen him and in the same way complicating duels.

The stall does not break with lucky items, it is not difficult to have the head to play and build something with a wallbreak.

Edited by Huargensy
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On 6/28/2021 at 11:10 PM, Huargensy said:

Are you really telling me that Kings rock is only allowed because walls are played in OU? I hope it's a joke, on the other hand, ladder usually plays more offensive side and balance, I have had the opportunity to watch games and only 1-3 of 10 teams are played stall / semi stall, even if it is the case, this It is not a reason to allow it, the item can be activated as it cannot, why adding an item that in quotes solves the stall issue if it depends on your luck to activate it? I know perfectly well that new players hate the stall, but that is no reason to be on the wrong and wrong side and want us all to get complicated by a wrong idea, kings rock not only affects defensive players, but also offensive players and not only to OU, in other countries I have also seen him and in the same way complicating duels.

The stall does not break with lucky items, it is not difficult to have the head to play and build something with a wallbreak.

 

image.png

 image.png.011acea2a6f4a0699eeef6732a55a94a.png
PvP metagame is so boring...

If you think that walls only appear in OU, you're wrong.Check this set of umbreon, a UU wall that has been used in OU image.png.83bcafaa0d0074cab1fca32f009f47b9.png 
It is boring this, players create strategy to win those walls supremacy, and if succeds, wall players make a appeal to ban this.

 

 

Translated to PT-BR/Traduzido Para o PT-BR

On 6/29/2021 at 8:30 AM, caioxlive13 said:
 

image.png

image.png.2fc4402875666e1c20f2f896b894b548.png
 image.png.011acea2a6f4a0699eeef6732a55a94a.png
Meta Gaming do PvP está bem chato.
Se acha que so tem wall na OU, você não viu a UU, olha esse set de umbreon, Wall da UU, bem usado na OU
image.png.83bcafaa0d0074cab1fca32f009f47b9.png
é Chato isso, players criam estrategias pra ganhar da supremacia de walls, e quando conseguem, jogadores de walls pedem pra banir a estrategia. e na maioria das vezes, banem mesmo , como Draco Meteor Hydreigon, walls fisicos não tinham chance , mas um knock off acabava com isso, tirando a Choice specs do Hydreigon, item mais usado nesse set, e Swords Dance Garchomp, que apesar de cofagrigus Haze ou Will-o-Wisp resolver, que nem faz com scizor, quiseram banir mesmo assim

 

On 6/23/2021 at 5:03 AM, RysPicz said:

Honestly, I'd be totally fine if King's Rock would activate only on the first hit when a multi-hit move is used- I would see that as a permanent fix for this particular item

Wall Lover

 

 

Edited by caioxlive13
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4 hours ago, caioxlive13 said:
 

image.png

 image.png.011acea2a6f4a0699eeef6732a55a94a.png
PvP metagame is so boring...

If you think that walls only appear in OU, you're wrong.Check this set of umbreon, a UU wall that has been used in OU image.png.83bcafaa0d0074cab1fca32f009f47b9.png 
It is boring this, players create strategy to win those walls supremacy, and if succeds, wall players make a appeal to ban this.

 

It does not matter if you bring walls from NU or wherever you want, a hax item will not solve the problem of walleo, even so, you also harm the issue of other mons that are not wall, if you depend on luck to stop a defensive team you go for evil On the other hand, chomp banned himself using offensive and defensive calculations, it was not something like "I feel like banning chomp and now" you don't have a goal with legendary or pokes with hidden hab to be able to better counter it, I won't talk about hydreigon, no I was in it, even so, you do not always find a full defensive team, I say that I usually see rank duels, offensive ones to a greater extent and that is fine, I feel that a correct goal is where you can play a variety of archetypes, on the other hand, kings rock not only complicates defensive teams, offensive teams suffer in the same way, rotom and magnezone can get the recoil and you directly lost your only control, this is something that affects everything.

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14 hours ago, RysPicz said:

No, I enjoy a healthy competitive metagame.

No such thing ever existed in Pokemon, sorry, as long as Ice Beam will freeze, crits exist and Meteor Mash can raise your attack 3 times in a row, this can't be neither healthy nor competitive. However no reasons for us to fuck the game even more in adding RNG in the items (here I meant Quick Claw and King's Rock), that I can't disagree

Edited by TohnR
Precisions :)
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27 minutes ago, TohnR said:

No such thing ever existed in Pokemon, sorry, as long as Ice Beam will freeze, crits exist and Meteor Mash can raise your attack 3 times in a row, this can't be neither healthy nor competitive. However no reasons for us to fuck the game even more in adding RNG in the items, that I can't disagree

*As healthy as possible I guess, this is what I should've written. We detour anyway from the main topic and the main topic is King's Rock which should be banned and I believe we do agree on that?

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17 hours ago, Huargensy said:

Are you really telling me that Kings rock is only allowed because walls are played in OU? I hope it's a joke, on the other hand, ladder usually plays more offensive side and balance, I have had the opportunity to watch games and only 1-3 of 10 teams are played stall / semi stall, even if it is the case, this It is not a reason to allow it, the item can be activated as it cannot, why adding an item that in quotes solves the stall issue if it depends on your luck to activate it? I know perfectly well that new players hate the stall, but that is no reason to be on the wrong and wrong side and want us all to get complicated by a wrong idea, kings rock not only affects defensive players, but also offensive players and not only to OU, in other countries I have also seen him and in the same way complicating duels.

The stall does not break with lucky items, it is not difficult to have the head to play and build something with a wallbreak.

I agree that RNG shouldn't be the only solution for offensive players, porém however, the meta game became so abusive to offensive pokemon, that it was the only
 way we found to deal with it. Why instead of just wishing for the item's banishment, you don't try to build a Hyper Offense team, and achieve high ranks?
Below is my team suggestion, it's a Hyper Offense assembled and used, by great OU players, The challenge is for you to achieve the same win rate as 
the top ranked and their powerful Walls.  All team archetypes should be viable but it's much easier to play with multiple walls these days.
Spoiler

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash  
Ability: Rock Head  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Taunt  
- Stealth Rock  
- Sunny Day  
- Earthquake  

Electrode @ Light Clay  
Ability: Static  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Light Screen  
- Reflect  
- Taunt  
- Teleport  

Cloyster @ White Herb  
Ability: Skill Link  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Shell Smash  
- Icicle Spear  
- Rock Blast  
- Ice Shard  

Volcarona @ Leftovers  
Ability: Flame Body  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Quiver Dance  
- Fiery Dance  
- Giga Drain  
- Safeguard  

Reuniclus  
Ability: Magic Guard  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA  
Bold Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Acid Armor  
- Calm Mind  
- Recover  
- Stored Power  

Dragonite @ Haban Berry  
Ability: Inner Focus  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Dragon Dance  
- Dragon Claw  
- Fire Punch  
- Extreme Speed  

 

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1 hour ago, YoungRo said:
I agree that RNG shouldn't be the only solution for offensive players, porém however, the meta game became so abusive to offensive pokemon, that it was the only
 way we found to deal with it. Why instead of just wishing for the item's banishment, you don't try to build a Hyper Offense team, and achieve high ranks?
Below is my team suggestion, it's a Hyper Offense assembled and used, by great OU players, The challenge is for you to achieve the same win rate as 
the top ranked and their powerful Walls.  All team archetypes should be viable but it's much easier to play with multiple walls these days.
  Reveal hidden contents

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash  
Ability: Rock Head  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Taunt  
- Stealth Rock  
- Sunny Day  
- Earthquake  

Electrode @ Light Clay  
Ability: Static  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Light Screen  
- Reflect  
- Taunt  
- Teleport  

Cloyster @ White Herb  
Ability: Skill Link  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Shell Smash  
- Icicle Spear  
- Rock Blast  
- Ice Shard  

Volcarona @ Leftovers  
Ability: Flame Body  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Quiver Dance  
- Fiery Dance  
- Giga Drain  
- Safeguard  

Reuniclus  
Ability: Magic Guard  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA  
Bold Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Acid Armor  
- Calm Mind  
- Recover  
- Stored Power  

Dragonite @ Haban Berry  
Ability: Inner Focus  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Dragon Dance  
- Dragon Claw  
- Fire Punch  
- Extreme Speed  

 

Friend, you did not understand anything, but I will tell you last time, the offensive game is viable, it is very good, and it is more seen than the 6 defensive ones, another thing, what does your team have to do here? I already told you that Kings rock punishes all types of game, it does not matter if it is defensive or offensive, it complicates them with just having a little luck, you can play 6 offensive rotom Wash if you want, that will not save you from having the bad luck that rock blast set you back.

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On 6/29/2021 at 2:32 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Translated to PT-BR/Traduzido Para o PT-BR

image.png.2fc4402875666e1c20f2f896b894b548.png
 image.png.011acea2a6f4a0699eeef6732a55a94a.png
Meta Gaming do PvP está bem chato.
Se acha que so tem wall na OU, você não viu a UU, olha esse set de umbreon, Wall da UU, bem usado na OU
image.png.83bcafaa0d0074cab1fca32f009f47b9.png
é Chato isso, players criam estrategias pra ganhar da supremacia de walls, e quando conseguem, jogadores de walls pedem pra banir a estrategia. e na maioria das vezes, banem mesmo , como Draco Meteor Hydreigon, walls fisicos não tinham chance , mas um knock off acabava com isso, tirando a Choice specs do Hydreigon, item mais usado nesse set, e Swords Dance Garchomp, que apesar de cofagrigus Haze ou Will-o-Wisp resolver, que nem faz com scizor, quiseram banir mesmo assim

tl;dr; you're bad and can't teambuild.

imagine thinking draco hydra is healthy.

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On 6/29/2021 at 3:12 PM, RysPicz said:

*As healthy as possible I guess, this is what I should've written. We detour anyway from the main topic and the main topic is King's Rock which should be banned and I believe we do agree on that?

"Healty" Are you kidding me? Use a 3, 4 5 or 6-Wall team and win matchs in forfeit is Healty? 

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 10:35 AM, razimove said:

tl;dr; you're bad and can't teambuild.

imagine thinking draco hydra is healthy.

More healty that reuniclus Calm Mind, Acid Armor, Stored Power and Recover ; Cofagrius Haze, Will-o-Wisp, hex, Pain Split; And Chansey Eviolite and Blissey with SoftBoiled, Toxic, Teleport, and seismic toss ; All in the Same team.

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 10:35 AM, razimove said:

tl;dr; you're bad and can't teambuild.

imagine thinking draco hydra is healthy.

Draco Meteor Hydreigon is not healthy
Team of Razimove: Reuniclus, Cofagrigus, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Rotom and Chansey Eviolite
i don't teambuild?

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:13 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Draco Meteor Hydreigon is not healthy
Team of Razimove: Reuniclus, Cofagrigus, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Rotom and Chansey Eviolite
i don't teambuild?

 

This Wall-Lovers is a joke. King's rock is only a trouble to players that pick 3 Physical Walls, 3 Special walls, and play pvp. Offensive players don't have problem with it, once time that we have STRATEGY to play, and can counter with a priority special move or Fake Out + Close Combat, that break Sash Cloysters and King's Rock Cloyster Without problem. Defensive players don't use strategy, only spam Toxic and a recover move, some times moves to buff your own defense and/or Special Defense.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:22 PM, caioxlive13 said:

This Wall-Lovers is a joke. King's rock is only a trouble to players that pick 3 Physical Walls, 3 Special walls, and play pvp. Offensive players don't have problem with it, once time that we have STRATEGY to play, and can counter with a priority special move or Fake Out + Close Combat, that break Sash Cloysters and King's Rock Cloyster Without problem. Defensive players don't use strategy, only spam Toxic and a recover move, some times moves to buff your own defense and/or Special Defense.

Translated to PT-BR/Traduzido para o PT-BR
Esses Amadoes de Walls são uma piada. King's Rock é apenas problema pra quem pega 3 walls fisicos e 3 walls specials, e jogam pvp. Jogadores com times mais Ofensivos não tem problema quanto a isso, ja que eles jogam com ESTRATEGIA, e counteram usando um move special com prioridade ou Fake Out + Close Combat, que quebra Cloyster com King's rock ou sash sem problema. Jogadores que jogam com times mais Defensivos não usam Estrategia, apenas espammam Toxic, Recover, e as vezes alguns moves pra Buffar defesa e/ou special defense.
 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:22 PM, caioxlive13 said:

This Wall-Lovers is a joke. King's rock is only a trouble to players that pick 3 Physical Walls, 3 Special walls, and play pvp. Offensive players don't have problem with it, once time that we have STRATEGY to play, and can counter with a priority special move or Fake Out + Close Combat, that break Sash Cloysters and King's Rock Cloyster Without problem. Defensive players don't use strategy, only spam Toxic and a recover move, some times moves to buff your own defense and/or Special Defense.

Play with offense team needs strategy. King's rock help Cloyster, but need a perfect time to activate shell smash and don't receive toxic or combo using Fake out and a offense 90+ Power move that are supereffective, like close combat. If you miss one stept, you lose 1 pokemon free.
Defense teams don't require strategy, only spam toxic, recover, Up your defense and/or special defense, and win with forfeit. Blissey and chansey eviolite use this, Calm Mind to up Special defense, use toxic, and cures itself with softboiled.

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 1:44 PM, caioxlive13 said:

Play with offense team needs strategy. King's rock help Cloyster, but need a perfect time to activate shell smash and don't receive toxic or combo using Fake out and a offense 90+ Power move that are supereffective, like close combat. If you miss one stept, you lose 1 pokemon free.
Defense teams don't require strategy, only spam toxic, recover, Up your defense and/or special defense, and win with forfeit. Blissey and chansey eviolite use this, Calm Mind to up Special defense, use toxic, and cures itself with softboiled.

 


Translated(PT-BR)
Jogar com times Ofensivos requer estrategia. King's rock ajuda Cloyster, mas precisa de uma chance pra ativar o shell smash e contar de não receber Toxic, ou um combo counter usando Fake Out e um move supereficaz de 90 power ou mais, como o Close Combat. Se errar um passo, perde um pokemon de Graça.
Times Defensivos não requerem estrategia, so espammar toxic, um move pra recuperar HP, se possivel um move pra buffar defesa ou special defense, e ganhe com desistencias do oponente. Blissey e Chansey Eviolite usam isso. Calm Mind pra buffar sp. def, usam toxic, e ficam se curando com Softboiled.

 

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https://clips.twitch.tv/PlayfulExcitedGrouseArsonNoSexy-0LCeGLSuf6aNX0jA

 

Look how pretentious Mr JorgeFireBolt is, look at his team and you will understand why he wants a cloyster ban, see if this match is fair, look how much easier it is to play with his team than to play with cloyster kings rock

 

Olhem como o Senhor JorgeFireBolt é espertinho, ele só quer banir as coisas que atrapalham o time dele, olhem como o Pagui, jogando com um Hyper Offense tem problemas pra lidar com jogadas simples do JorgeFireBolt, é sobre isso guys, Se ninguem começar a dar sua opniao aqui no forum, os caras vão manipular o meta pra q fique melhor pra eles sempre, Covarde do caralho.

 

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1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

"Healty" Are you kidding me? Use a 3, 4 5 or 6-Wall team and win matchs in forfeit is Healty? 

You are directing your missed arguments towards a person who pretty much does not use any walls. Stall is a legit playstyle but this is not the case- the case is, King's Rock is an item that is unhealthy, uncompetitive and heavily impacts the competitive society by adding an unnecessary element of RNG, not skill, to the game. If you persist on keeping king's rock in the game then you either are a total no-skill that has to abuse RNG in order to try and win or you are a competitive ignorant that has no idea about a healthy metagame where skill should prevail over luck.

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1 hour ago, caioxlive13 said:

Draco Meteor Hydreigon is not healthy
Team of Razimove: Reuniclus, Cofagrigus, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Rotom and Chansey Eviolite
i don't teambuild?

 

Sounds like a very poor stall teambuild right there, when all of those lose to taunt hydra tbh, but please amuse us more lmao

 

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On 6/23/2021 at 3:28 AM, FighterChamp said:

Another thread which will be ignored by staffs.

And fair ignored, staffs don't ban this by this only is a good idea for Defensive and Hold-Game players.

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 2:48 PM, RysPicz said:

  

You are directing your missed arguments towards a person who pretty much does not use any walls. Stall is a legit playstyle but this is not the case- the case is, King's Rock is an item that is unhealthy, uncompetitive and heavily impacts the competitive society by adding an unnecessary element of RNG, not skill, to the game. If you persist on keeping king's rock in the game then you either are a total no-skill that has to abuse RNG in order to try and win or you are a competitive ignorant that has no idea about a healthy metagame where skill should prevail over luck.

Don't need hability to play holding game, only buffs itself and cures. And, some walls, like slowbro, are immune to taunt. King's rock cloyster is only way to kill 3,4 ,5 or 6 team wall, and use taunt is not a option against him, because Switch end taunt, and wall players abuse that to make the player Run out of taunt PP

I don't think is's fair win match in forfeit, only hold the gaming and waiting oponent forfeit

 

 

On 6/30/2021 at 2:48 PM, RysPicz said:

  

You are directing your missed arguments towards a person who pretty much does not use any walls. Stall is a legit playstyle but this is not the case- the case is, King's Rock is an item that is unhealthy, uncompetitive and heavily impacts the competitive society by adding an unnecessary element of RNG, not skill, to the game. If you persist on keeping king's rock in the game then you either are a total no-skill that has to abuse RNG in order to try and win or you are a competitive ignorant that has no idea about a healthy metagame where skill should prevail over luck.

You don't know how is Attack pokemon? You only defend? king's rock is only a 50% percent flinch, we need to remember, Togekiss is a 60% flinch. You can solve your problem with inner focus pokemon,, or with moves that eliminates skill link's ability. and you with simple offense combos, counters focus sash or king's rock closyter
And, i don't see skill in only defend, and i only see skill in build a offense or balanced team.

 

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