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June-Movement Discussion Thread


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Imperial said:

And once again the seasonal tournaments will be played after the tier changes kick in

give them time bro it's only been 6 whole months since this was first acknowledged

 

to tag onto the rest of your comment: i agree with it entirely, and i particularly relate to the part about players migrating away from the tier - it has always been my favourite tier but i just grew progressively more tired of the constant drastic meta shifts and lack of stability. having said that, it must also be acknowledged that nu is a tier centralised around usage movements, but it certainly wouldn't be as big of a mess as it is if there were....

 

wait for it

 

brace yourself

 

dedicated tier councils for each tier!!

 

it's a crazy idea i know. i saw it on some other small pokemon forum called smogno and i definitely think it could work here. maybe we should make a formal suggestion or something

Edited by Zymogen
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14 minutes ago, Zymogen said:

to tag onto the rest of your comment: i agree with it entirely, and i particularly relate to the part about players migrating away from the tier - it has always been my favourite tier but i just grew progressively more tired of the constant drastic meta shifts and lack of stability. having said that, nu is a tier centralised around usage movements

 

I completely agree, but it's notably been the last few months that the Pokemon which have dropped into NU being hugely problematic and have completely destabilised the tier.

 

It was a strong Pokemon, but they banned Roserade from NU but yet keeping Dugtrio? 

 

13 minutes ago, Zymogen said:

wait for it

 

brace yourself

 

dedicated tier councils for each tier!!

 

If only in an ideal world... XD

 

(+1 from me)

 

 

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I am on the fence about Lucario, so I can understand both sides. Haxorus, however, is a) harder to revenge kill due to pure dragon typing and above average physical bulk, and b) Had, in UU, literally 1 answer, in the past, in the form of Mandibuzz, that currently is OU. There are both no answers to Haxorus, and 97 base speed in UU is actually absurd, outspeeding grand majority of the metagame. Whatever the consensus about Lucario is, I will stick to the opinion Haxorus is just much worse and has no place in our UU metagame.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Imperial said:

I completely agree, but it's notably been the last few months that the Pokemon which have dropped into NU being hugely problematic and have completely destabilised the tier.

Yes and no. Season 1 saw Rhyperior and Roserade drop down and totally destroy the existing tier (especially Rhyp was problematic) then Season 2 was Dugtrio and Electrode and ladder was filled of people abusing screens and now Electrode is gone but Azumarill dropped without a single proper defensive answer for it in the tier (faster mons who can tank jets has been the favored option, so offensive answers) that somewhat reminds me of pre-sinnoh days when people complained about Bibarel and Linoone there X D

 

I agree with all of what was said tho, even if I'm not gonna vouch for any NU bans as I've not been playing for 2 whole seasons now. I also join Zymo in saying dedicated TC would be good to have, especially since current structure will explain their NU tiering decisions with sentences such as : (quoting) "You can't adapt to the tier"  "NU has to be fucked by design"

This tier doesn't have to be the trash bin of OU/UU and if you think otherwise please leave on your own as you're clueless of what's TC role.

 

Edited by TohnR
EDIT : To SweetForU don't worry we gotchu Gigalith and Azu will rise :)
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The only way to fix NU is to have a better usage movements system. Every three months, NU gets a reset and everything changes drastically to the point where a good amount of NU comps become outdated. It takes way more resources to play NU for that reason and that's why people are usually more attracted to OU/UU that are way more stable and evolve in a more linear fashion.

 

TC should not work agaisnt the current system and prevent meta defining threats from dropping or moving up, that's just a recipe for disaster. I really believe our system is just bad by design for NU and should be changed. It may be really nice to have one singular usage movements system for all tiers that coincide perfectly with PokeMMO seasons, but in reality it just doesn't work and that's why NU will always be ruined over and over. 

 

Why would NU players bother to test sets and be creative when the reward of all these efforts is a massive tier shift that makes everything obsolete? They really shouldn't and that's why NU players tend to simply copy "what works" and we end up with very generic NU teams being spammed every month. 

 

Imo, we need either more rigid usage movements cutoff points or a movement cycle with more usage barriers, so that NU can evolve more naturally and players are encourage to try new stuff.

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Am I the only one who sees Gyarados + Power whip as a threat? I am aware that pokémon like Ferrothorn, Rotom scarf and Mandibuzz can stop it, but as for architectures that do not use these 3, it seems somewhat difficult to stop it, I have used Magnezone trying to stop it but I have to literally walk praying that it does not go back at the first waterfall ...
As for other physical walls like Cofagrigus ... Gyarados accesses Taunt, so we would only have to do Hex or Shadow ball (Doing 20% maximum damage with Hex and 30.5% maximum with Shadow Ball, while we throws dd in the face without the possibility of using mist).
Good offensive Pokémon like Dragonite don't stand a chance against the Ice Fang either ... Gyarados jolly has a 56% chance of being ohko with this move, and personally I'm seeing quite a few Gyarados adamant from Jolteon's low usage, and they ohko Ice Fang Dragonite without having to be +1 ... In fact, the Jolly would already blow up Nite if +1 is increased beforehand or if there are rocks on the field and I have no chance to clear.
And another example like rotom wash bold, which is a pokémon that slows down Gyarados in the Gen5 meta (And yes, I know that the meta of Gen5 and MMO are different, but I see it as the best benchmark), it has an 81% chance of fainted from adamant power whip gyarados to +1, and Gyarados being a pokémon that at a minimum spam dd, seems quite limiting.

 

My suggestion here is to ban the Gyarados + Power whip test, I know it's not an impossible pokémon to take down at all, but it makes team building somewhat monotonous and repetitive, I don't know what the rest of the community will think so II I would like to read them too nn

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Posted (edited)

Since they touched on the subject of lowering and raising levels, I have "a suggestion" It is always seen that usually the third month is the one of significant changes, while in the other two, absolutely nothing happens, it is only 'Fill' and something that displeases me is that, because it is as if those 2 months did not exist , because the rate of use and download is very high / low, then, Mons who had low standard use in the first and second month, and out of nowhere has good use in the third must stay, an example seems to me Ambipom, what I saw 2 months below 3% or hovering around it, but magically in the third it rises and must stay, and then it goes back down and up. I suggest eliminating the changes of each month, and only making one every 3 months,

but not only taking that month into account, if not the 3 that have been played, taking a base average of x mon use in those 3 months

Example: Month 1: 3% Month 2: 2% Month 3: 5% Which would give an average of 10/3 = 3.33%, which would mean going down in the third month, despite the fact that in the latter it had a high use.

Edited by Huargensy
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3 minutes ago, Huargensy said:

Since they touched on the subject of lowering and raising levels, I have "a suggestion" It is always seen that usually the third month is the one of significant changes, while in the other two, absolutely nothing happens, it is only 'Fill' and something that displeases me is that, because it is as if those 2 months did not exist , because the rate of use and download is very high / low, then, Mons who had low standard use in the first and second month, and out of nowhere has good use in the third must stay, an example seems to me Ambipom, what I saw 2 months below 3% or hovering around it, but magically in the third it rises and must stay, and then it goes back down and up. I suggest eliminating the changes of each month, and only making one every 3 months, but not only taking that month into account, if not the 3 that have been played, taking a base average of x mon use in those 3 months Example: Month 1: 3% Month 2: 2% Month 3: 5% Which would give an average of 10/3 = 3.33%, which would mean going down in the third month, despite the fact that in the latter it had a high use.

I think staff wants to avoid any changes during PvP seasons, so that there is no disruptions during the season itself. The cutoff points for the first 2 months of each cycle make it nearly impossible for anything to drop or rise and, when it comes to tests, they pretty much always last 3 months for that reason as well. I guess it looks more "clean" and simple that way. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I think staff wants to avoid any changes during PvP seasons, so that there is no disruptions during the season itself. The cutoff points for the first 2 months of each cycle make it nearly impossible for anything to drop or rise and, when it comes to tests, they pretty much always last 3 months for that reason as well. I guess it looks more "clean" and simple that way. 

In the same way there will be changes at the end of the 3 months, and the other 2 will be filled, the difference is that with what I say, it will make those 2 months go from filling, to data for the final decision in the third month, because in the The current mode does not matter the use it has in those 2 months, it is as if they did not exist and the 3rd month yes, another case that I noticed was that of azumarill, the first month had 5% the second 6% and the 3rd 4% despite Of the use of the other 2 months low because only the third one matters, I do not ask for tier changes every month, only that at the end of the third, take into account the data of the other 2 previous, so there will only be a tier change in the 3rd month, but taking the use of the 3

 

Eliminate the tier changes the first 2 months and the 3rd make it but with the  average of use of the 3 months played

Edited by Huargensy
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Still early days and things can change, but looking at the current % statistics this is what looks like will be dropping down to NU next month:

 

image.png.cf585d35f6643b35eac4548e8fb65869.png

 

I can't see a problem with these personally, and despite Bisharp having high attack I see it on a similar level to Absol/Honchkrow to an extent.

 

The one I would have an issue with in the tier is this:

 

image.png.60fb32f8fb2c2d81458d5911b8c4d6b6.png

 

Before I get the usual "just try it in NU" - will Durant be suspect tested? Before thinking of any justifications, I'm curious to hear people's thoughts as I wouldn't have been playing comp the last time it may have been in the tier.

 

I'm aware we have Typhlosion and a few others which could handle this.

 

Also looks like Ambipom and Electrode will be back in NU uwu @hernjet@Quinn010

 

 

 

Edited by Imperial
rip gigalith & azumarill?
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6 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Still early days and things can change, but looking at the current % statistics this is what looks like will be dropping down to NU next month:

 

image.png.cf585d35f6643b35eac4548e8fb65869.png

 

I can't see a problem with these personally, and despite Bisharp having high attack I see it on a similar level to Absol/Honchkrow to an extent.

 

The one I would have an issue with in the tier is this:

 

image.png.60fb32f8fb2c2d81458d5911b8c4d6b6.png

 

Before I get the usual "just try it in NU" - will Durant be suspect tested? Before thinking of any justifications, I'm curious to hear people's thoughts as I wouldn't have been playing comp the last time it may have been in the tier.

 

I'm aware we have Typhlosion and a few others which could handle this.

 

Also looks like Ambipom and Electrode will be back in NU uwu @hernjet@Quinn010

 

 

 

Durant is BL , it will never get back NU

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1 hour ago, Imperial said:

Still early days and things can change, but looking at the current % statistics this is what looks like will be dropping down to NU next month:

 

image.png.cf585d35f6643b35eac4548e8fb65869.png

 

I can't see a problem with these personally, and despite Bisharp having high attack I see it on a similar level to Absol/Honchkrow to an extent.

 

The one I would have an issue with in the tier is this:

 

image.png.60fb32f8fb2c2d81458d5911b8c4d6b6.png

 

Before I get the usual "just try it in NU" - will Durant be suspect tested? Before thinking of any justifications, I'm curious to hear people's thoughts as I wouldn't have been playing comp the last time it may have been in the tier.

 

I'm aware we have Typhlosion and a few others which could handle this.

 

Also looks like Ambipom and Electrode will be back in NU uwu @hernjet@Quinn010

 

 

 

Durant is BL, it won't go down unless the tcs do a suspect test, which is done when new mons are introduced, mechanics or the meta changes drastically Regarding Bisharp, I doubt that it will go down, that 0.6% to go down seems enough for only 10 days, although who knows.

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Unfortunately I cannot prevent that from happening, that has to be done on a dev level due to the fact the new season starts before those tournaments, and I cannot put season changes off that long.

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1 hour ago, Munya said:

Unfortunately I cannot prevent that from happening, that has to be done on a dev level due to the fact the new season starts before those tournaments, and I cannot put season changes off that long.

How can you not move seasonals UU/NU to the OU/Doubles time slot since those don't have any tier changes ? 

That's ridiculously dumb

Edited by TohnR
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