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May-Movement Discussion Thread


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7 minutes ago, Azphiel said:

But in a scenario where P2 is your switch in to Specs PZ, you tank a tri attack and you're forced to recover, you can't afford to tri attack once or you might die, so the PZ can freely spam Tri attack and wait for a status

Also on Thenavarro's calc it is a scenario where the adaptability PZ isn't even +1 speatk, I suppose a max spedef P2 would get 2hko'd after rocks in that case

Why would adaptability specs be +1 special attack? It has 2 abilities? 

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I vote to ban P-Z from UU.

With our current usage right now, P-Z outspeeds 2/3 of the tier. The 12 mons that outspeed P-Z all get OHKO by Spec Tri Attack from P-Z and less than half of them have access to a move that can OHKO P

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3 minutes ago, Makarovs said:

You're missing the point. Rng alone is not a problem, but the whole set is. Few months ago, Sand veil was removed from competitive, but was actualy broken? not really, Garchomp was to blame because he was broken by itself. I fell like P-Z its the same thing, a very strong mon without rng factor, with it the problem is even bigger. I'm still not sure if a ban is necessary, thats why i asked what TC's think in the first place, but from what I've been reading,it seems so.

And yes p-z is strong as a wallbreaker should be. And it also has some checks. Also the example u gave was a desperate action from devs and tc to keep garchomp from getting banned because pokemmo obeys a "no uber policy". Thats why now they removed swords dance from it. So it stays in OU. Sand veil itself was never a problem so the ban was a mistake. As i said in my first comment im not sure if p-z requires a ban or not. But in the case a ban would happen it should never be because it is offensively uber because it isnt. It is strong and it has checks, its tough to play around also. If a ban would happen should be judged on how centralising it is for the tier and if it makes the overall uu meta unhealthy with its presence. And personally i think this part is too early to be decided

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13 minutes ago, Umbramol said:

And yes p-z is strong as a wallbreaker should be

that's what i said.

 

14 minutes ago, Umbramol said:

Sand veil itself was never a problem so the ban was a mistake

Again, what i said. Desesperate or not, mistake or not, my point is that when a strong mon can also """abuse""" rng, its starts to be a probem.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that Pory-Z didnt even need those 20% status to be a great mon, but he has.

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3 hours ago, Umbramol said:

Why would adaptability specs be +1 special attack? It has 2 abilities? 

Sorry I meant in the case where PZ is download, anyway the point stands, tri attack can easily be spammable and the status will happen sooner or later

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10 minutes ago, Azphiel said:

Sorry I meant in the case where PZ is download, anyway the point stands, tri attack can easily be spammable and the status will happen sooner or later

Thats a guess. Its not an actual argument. Status might come or not. It is rng. And to answer your question download choice specs porygonz doesnt 2hko porygon2

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Some fair arguments, I shall just note that Spiritomb doesn't need to be sassy or whatever other shit nature to switch in and force PoryZ out. About spedef empoleon, I believe it was already a standard in the previous meta, nothing new here. I agree with the argument that PZ isn't that fast but is quite fast compared to the other wallbreakers in the tier and that it has some great capabilities.

 

From my 180ish ladder games, I've not found it to be unreasonable, even tho I've found the mon was doing well in the tier. However I can hear the arguments of some people who want it banned as it anihilates their playstyle (stallish) and they can't deal with it. I feel your pain because that's how I've felt about Porygon2 on my side.

 

I think that there's not enough relevant usage and teambuildings to decide anything yet, banning PZ would almost seem as if you unbanned it without considering all this previously. Not like you guys at TC couldn't see PoryZ moveset and base stats and run calcs before deciding to drop it or not, amirite ? If you drop it, test it properly instead of barking like Gbwead (:

Edited by TohnR
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5 minutes ago, TohnR said:

However I can hear the arguments of some people who want it banned as it anihilates their playstyle (stallish) and they can't deal with it. I feel your pain because that's how I've felt about Porygon2 on my side.

This has nothing to do with stall. A lot of people in this very thread that do not play stall have claimed that P-Z should be banned. Those P2 vs PZ analogies need to stop. They are so wrong. PZ ruins all playstyles. P2 ruins only Offense. There is a huge difference. 

 

8 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I think that there's not enough relevant usage and teambuildings to decide anything yet, banning PZ would almost seem as if you unbanned it without considering all this previously. Not like you guys at TC couldn't see PoryZ moveset and base stats and run calcs before deciding to drop it or not, amirite ? If you drop it, test it properly instead of barking like Gbwead (:

PZ has been tested twice already. Enough is enough. UU has been completly deserted and no one cares to compete in that format anymore. 

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Man gbwead pulling data out of his mind that are hella untrue.. Thats just missleading.. Who deserted uu? Who doesnt care about it anymore? P-z doesnt ruin every playstyle. Actually all playstyles have ways to manage it. Stall itself doesnt get destroyed by it while it certaintly can open holes into it and offense doesnt really allow it to come in many times in a game. Maybe balance struggles the most against it but thats how balance does in uu in general. Gets easily overwhelmed by offense and doesnt have the ability to break through stall most of the times. 

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1 hour ago, Umbramol said:

Thats a guess. Its not an actual argument. Status might come or not. It is rng. And to answer your question download choice specs porygonz doesnt 2hko porygon2

You need to do 4 recover to get out of the 3HKO from Tri Attack and 6 recover to get back to full HP. The odds of getting a status from Tri Attack are extremely high. 1 -(0.8x0.8x0.8x0.8x0.8x0.8) = 74% chance to status 

 

When the odds of getting a status are that high with 0 risk involved, I would not say: "Hey status might come or not. It is RNG." This is not binary RNG with 50/50 odds, maybe yes, maybe no. We're talking about Tri Attack spam which breaks through P2 most of the time, that's not a guess, it's an expectation based on odds.

 

56 minutes ago, Umbramol said:

Man gbwead pulling data out of his mind that are hella untrue.. Thats just missleading.. Who deserted uu?

UU Season 4 has the weakest leaderboard of all 4 seasons. That should be pretty big red sign. 

 

56 minutes ago, Umbramol said:

P-z doesnt ruin every playstyle. Actually all playstyles have ways to manage it. Stall itself doesnt get destroyed by it while it certaintly can open holes into it and offense doesnt really allow it to come in many times in a game. Maybe balance struggles the most against it but thats how balance does in uu in general. Gets easily overwhelmed by offense and doesnt have the ability to break through stall most of the times. 

If TohnR claims P-Z is the equivalent for stall to P2 for offense and you claim that stall doesn't get destroyed by PZ that means you are contradicting each other. You don't have to agree on anything, but you need to realise that I was responding to TohnR based on his PZ/P2 analogy.

 

P2 doesn't just ruin offense. There are some grey areas and exception that need to be mentionned as ways to manage P2 on offense. The same way I can say PZ ruins everything, but there are obviously also some grey areas and exception that need to be mentionned. Mentionning them like you said doesn't take anything away from my claim that PZ ruins everything because all the ways of managing PZ that you mentionned I have already talked about in my first post on this thread. 

 

I'm obviously not going to give a extensive reply to every single post on this thread. Sometimes I will do exactly like what others are doing and summarize my thoughts by excluding the grey areas and exception from my statements for the sake of simplicity. 

 

Edited by gbwead
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On 28/4/2021 at 10:02, Munya said:

Parece que la prueba PZ se extenderá un mes. En el futuro, 2 meses será la duración de la prueba de referencia, a menos que una cantidad abrumadora de TC vote lo contrario (% de votos exactos en la atmósfera insegura). Sin embargo, este mes se dividieron en partes iguales.

Ambipom Nu GoGoGo!!!

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On 27/4/2021 at 4:59, pachima said:

, ¿Porygon-z es fuerte frente a ofensiva? No, la ofensiva es el peor enfrentamiento para Porygon-z en realidad, principalmente por lo que dije en mi párrafo. 

 

Tldr; Por favor, dale tiempo.

Choice scarf not is bad set, is good vs offense.

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On 5/2/2021 at 11:26 AM, Stokes said:

   i want to vote ban PZ from UU

This vote could have changed the outcome of PZ staying for another month, but you're 3 days too late.

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