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Porygon-Z suspect test thread


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The Tier Council has re-evaluated the Borderline 1 Pokemon and have decided to drop Porygon-Z and test it in the Underused tier. This will be a suspect test which will occur over an undecided period of time. Through a prolonged discussion and majority vote, we have decided that Haxorus and Lucario will not be tested at this time. 

 

Porygon-Z is a natural stallbreaker, which means it specializes in breaking stall. As such, its counters are very limited, and in UU they usually only take the form of Bronzong and, although in a lesser scale, Porygon2, Snorlax and/or Dusclops. Note, however, that Gigalith is able to safely counter any set, only fearing the eventual Trick to Choice Scarf play.

 

Arguably Porygon-Z's biggest advantage is being able to spam stab Tri-Attack, boosted by either Adaptability or Download, and in fact, this move is able to break almost anything in the tier when you consider its secondary ability (to burn, freeze, or paralyze at around a 20% chance).

Does this make it broken? Not necessarily, hence why the need to retest it.

 

On the other hand, Porygon-z isn't without flaws. First, it possesses a mediocre speed base stat of 90 that makes it vulnerable to many faster offensive threats in the tier. Second, its pure normal typing hinders Porygon-z defensively, not allowing it to take any resisted type, besides Ghost-immunity. Plus, Porygon-z is also prone to virtually every priority move commonly used, as well as every hazard and status. In other words, Porygon-z has little to no switch-ins and more often than not should only enter the field after something previously fainted or after good prediction, which in and of itself is a gamble. Lastly, Porygon-z is also pressured by Pursuit users, most notably Bisharp, Krookodile, and Metagross, especially a choice set.

 

Overall, we have decided that Porygon-Z is at the very least, worthy of being suspect tested in UU. We cannot safely guarantee it will not be broken after the testing period, but we believe it has a chance of fitting in the tier and possibly even improving upon what has become a tier with little variability.

 

Please discuss.

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On 4/1/2021 at 4:24 PM, Stokes said:

i think is a good idea porygonz in uu, this tier has lot of walls, users cant play 6 walls if the oponent has pz

This isn't actually a good argument to make PoryZ stay in UU. If one pokemon singlehandely lays down an entire playstyle (even as obscure as stall) then it deserves to be banned.

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From the first few days of laddering and tournaments, PZ is fair at what it can do and can't do.

 

Saying that as a player of offense of course, even tho I have yet to test PZ in my own builds (couldn't fit it in ...). But from those I faced and what I saw in tournaments, it is quite simple to deal with even without a dedicated check/counter. The mon most likely won't do more than 1 kill in the whole game vs offense unless it runs a scarf (in which case it does what any other scarf does)

 

The reasoning is similar to Mamoswine actually, his type and speed won't allow him to come freely on much, even tho it has incredible power. 

Example with common walls : 

0 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 84-99 (52.5 - 61.8%)
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Porygon-Z: 61-73 (38.1 - 45.6%) 
0 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 88-105 (55 - 65.6%) 
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (114 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 78-93 (48.7 - 58.1%)
+1 0 SpA Porygon2 Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Porygon-Z: 88-105 (55 - 65.6%) 

 

And even after that if you managed to break a wall, you're in range of any other move (including prios) and an easy pray to revenge kill. Recover can't even be pointed as an argument since most moves do over 50% to it

 

If you use something like specs or nasty plot, you will indeed beat stall (it's not like that would be the first mon that beats stall with specific sets) but it won't be unhealthy for the tier as long as the mon is pressured into not using that set by more offensive builds.

 

And as a scarf it doesn't straight up OHKO any offensive mon with a neutral stab hit 

252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 112-134 (67.8 - 81.2%)
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 90-108 (66.6 - 80%) 
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 90-106 (72 - 84.8%) 
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 100-118 (64.5 - 76.1%)
252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hitmonchan: 88-104 (70.4 - 83.2%)
 

Again the point is not to just do nothing and eat those neutral stab hits, but what I mean is that the mon won't straight up OHKO everything so you most of the time got an escape door. It has no solid moves to hit steel and rock besides Hidden Power, it has shadow ball tho so you might have to outplay with ghosts (not with Spiritomb tho) 

 

For me the major impact of pZ is it changed the way people build teams. That's another "big" threat to the table that balanced and stall need to deal with. Quite similarly to Swampert, it does nothing but add diversity in the tier. More options meaning some mons become obviously less viable, but that's part of the game 

 

About its strenghts, obviously great movepool but somewhat irrelevant given you'll want it to hit stabs as much as you can.

What could be scary is greedy sets like double dance in screens, but I tend to think people who are able to set those up deserve to win because you let them

Edited by TohnR
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6 hours ago, RysPicz said:

This isn't actually a good argument to make PoryZ stay in UU. If one pokemon singlehandely lays down an entire playstyle (even as obscure as stall) then it deserves to be banned.

Thats the thing, pz doesnt singlehandedly lays down stall. Yes, its strong vs it, but in practice, even against stall, p-z is only taking down 1-2 things maximum, before being worn up to death, assuming there is no gigalith.

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4 minutes ago, pachima said:

Thats the thing, pz doesnt singlehandedly lays down stall. Yes, its strong vs it, but in practice, even against stall, p-z is only taking down 1-2 things maximum, before being worn up to death, assuming there is no gigalith.

That, I don't know- I don't play often enough to provide any argument pro or against the ban. Just pointed out that if mon disables entire stall, it's banworthy

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@Munya Uh I expected it would be easy to revenge kill, especially since I use a lot of priorities in my teams

However, I expected people wouldn't build SO MUCH around it, like if you watch all these gigalith + spedef bronzong in UU seasonal, that was crazy

Did anyone reach top4 using PZ in round 4 (the decisive one) ? I'm not even sure

People almost forgot other threats exist in the tier ahah

 

Also @RysPicz then Marrowak is banworthy ???

If a set fails to accomplish anything vs balanced/offense but destroys stall it's super fine

Even tho that it isn't as polarized for PZ, I think calcs always be inducing us to have the wrong idea and testing is much more relevant sometimes 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

if mon disables entire stall, it's banworthy

 

6 minutes ago, TohnR said:

then Marrowak is banworthy ???

Marrowak disables entire stall, that's the idea, yet it's still bad and will never be played enough to be relevant

Just an example

PZ sets that would disable entire stall are not gonna be used because bad so irrelevant

Apologies if the comparison doesn't make sense to you

Edited by TohnR
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  • 1 month later...

I think players are getting more comfortable with the presence of Porygon-Z, but it still makes me nervous. Right now, I view it as being very similar to Hydreigon in OU. It's got great coverage, insane power, and can set-up a devastating Nasty Plot. What sets Porygon-Z apart though is its STAB Tri-Attack, which has the chance to para/freeze/burn. One RNG roll has proven to really make a difference in matches, as even counters really get punished from coming and getting haxed.

 

We'll keep looking at Porygon-Z. I'm still on the fence.  

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Comparing P-Z to Hydreigon and then saying 'what sets PZ apart' is kind of misleadingJJ. It's one of the better comparisons overall, I would agree with that. But Hydrei had far more switch in opportunities in the tier than Pz has. It had some great resistances that let it come in on very common OU mons, basically for free. Which is part of the reason why it was so strong. Pz on the other hand, isn't as easy to bring and doesn't have the longevity of Hydrei. Tri Attack is more spammable, but also has more resistances and is in some ways riskier to click than Draco Meteor. Not really pushing for ban or keep, just expanding on your points.

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10 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

Comparing P-Z to Hydreigon and then saying 'what sets PZ apart' is kind of misleadingJJ. It's one of the better comparisons overall, I would agree with that. But Hydrei had far more switch in opportunities in the tier than Pz has. It had some great resistances that let it come in on very common OU mons, basically for free. Which is part of the reason why it was so strong. Pz on the other hand, isn't as easy to bring and doesn't have the longevity of Hydrei. Tri Attack is more spammable, but also has more resistances and is in some ways riskier to click than Draco Meteor. Not really pushing for ban or keep, just expanding on your points.

Appreciate it. There are many glaring differences, but it's used in a very similar way, especially from my observation of our player base. 

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Tbh I'd keep it. Used it- it's truly good but 95% of playerbase is prepared for it and it has difficult time switching in. Played against it- it's totally manage-able. It does not have impressive defensive stats which makes it weak to priority, has no hazard immunity or resistance and it's speed allows the two common scarf users of the tier (Flygon/ Raptor) to outspeed and usually KO the mon itself. It surely is one of the reasons of Gigalith's spike in usage and we will probably start seeing some other mons pulled out to make P-Z's existence more miserable if it will become a more dominant threat.

For now and current metagame state, I think it's fine.

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2 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Tbh I'd keep it. Used it- it's truly good but 95% of playerbase is prepared for it and it has difficult time switching in. Played against it- it's totally manage-able. It does not have impressive defensive stats which makes it weak to priority, has no hazard immunity or resistance and it's speed allows the two common scarf users of the tier (Flygon/ Raptor) to outspeed and usually KO the mon itself. It surely is one of the reasons of Gigalith's spike in usage and we will probably start seeing some other mons pulled out to make P-Z's existence more miserable if it will become a more dominant threat.

For now and current metagame state, I think it's fine.

I am not sure that 95% of players are prepared for it, it is still easy for me to see teams where just seeing it is a put pz enter and hit triattack until it drops to 6, what I will say is that compared to when it just fell , increased the players wearing something to avoid the spam of the triattack, I would take as a point the final of UU of a few minutes ago, but that final was a real meme and disaster, so I can not use it as a reference

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i had previously said that it seems to centralise the meta around it and that might become a problem. after experiencing a bunch more battles from the receiving side(not using it) and never overly preparing for it i gotta say that its the way most people play that makes them scared so much for it. in my opinion porygon-z is a much greater danger to defensive playstyles and while still remaining a danger to offense, offense has the ability to pressure a lot so it never comes in for free.. most ppl i have encountered with pz against me usually lead with it cause honestly it wont get many chances to get in the battle apart from a position to revenge kill.. scarf set can be good against offense but it really lacks the power however surprising that may be.. example my sigilyph taking around 75% health from a scarf shadown ball porygon-z. what annoys me about it is that it restricts me from using some mons that i would like to use because they clearly struggle in the current meta so i have to build my teams around having one resistance for it and pressure it to not come in freely but honestly there are ways to deal with it. that being said i come to the conclussion that it should stay in the tier, the fact that it is a threat doesnt mean that it has to be banned and that mentality needs to be shaken off and a meta shifting and being a little bit more centralised around one pokemon isnt exactly news. other threats in the past have centralised the meta around them aswell but ultimately got handled one way or another. maybe gigalith will become an actual UU mon now and not an elevator and thats not nessecarily bad. UU has a huge variety of mons that can work with gigalith. in my opinion the pokemon had place in the tier before porygon-z arived. along with spiritomb which is used to stop the tri attack spam. so yea, i say keep PorygonZ in UU

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Sondear y analizar mejores duelos de porygon z, no parece digno de ban (analizaré el conjunto de especificaciones, lo desagradable es difícil de configurar, la agilidad igual y la bufanda carece de potencia, así que directamente solo analizaré las más útiles / used), aquí están mis puntos:

1-. Está hecho de papel jejeje, no puedes ponerlo tan tranquilo contra nada, ni siquiera contra mons defensivos (que no sea Dusclops) porque con daño previo al cambio es capaz de perder el 1vs1 contra las paredes, ya que recibe 2- 3 golpes de ellos

(Don't forget all priority excepto shadow sneak)

 

2- Su velocidad no es la mejor para el nivel, muchos atacantes lo superan, y pueden tomar revancha, entre los atacantes

importante que supere y pueda golpearlos ko, son Medicham

mamoswine rotom ataca y Heracross, pero oh sorpresa, 3 de ellos son bufandas viables, y si pory z no lleva una bufanda no puede derribarlos con 1 golpe, mamoswine usualmente toma fajín, pero no es algo que yo haré tener en cuenta

3-.2 mons más rápidos son capaces de hacerle huir, mientras que otro es inmune a su spam y hace lo mismo, pegándole una buena persecución que por sus bajas defensas será algo que lo dejará en la mierda, Krooko cb y weavile , ambos pudiendo ingresar a especificaciones de pulso oscuro, el otro es Spiritomb, ya que ingresa al triattack y es capaz de dañarlo con persecución / golpe de ventosa, otro a mencionar es dugtrio, que borra pZ

4-. Todavía tiene cosas que no están muertas de 2hit, además de que algunas pueden controlarlo en cierto punto, empoleon o evitar el spam triattack.

/ Gigalithh / p2 / Snorlax / Umbreon / Bronzong / Spiritomb / Dusclops / Metagross Bulky / rhyperior bulk

------------------

Sé que algunos dirán que el problema es tener que usar solo 2 movimientos para complicar tanto, pero es un wallbreaker, su obligación es golpear fuerte contra todo lo que ve y así abrir espacio entre las paredes, yanmega es otro spammer de solo 2movs La mayoría de las veces, obviamente tiene el problema del stealth rock, pero en cambio tiene más velocidad, defensa, pero su typing es el hecho de poder ingresar algunos ataques, con lo cual tampoco tiene la habilidad de pivotar con un turno

Siento que porygon Z es solo algo que debes tener en cuenta al construir, la misma amenaza que podría ser yanmega / mamoswime heracross y más, solo algo a tener en cuenta al construir debido a lo peligroso que puede ser, fuera de eso yo no No creo que valga la pena prohibirlo.

Edited by Huargensy
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