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What are your thoughts on these 'raffles'?


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9 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

Alright, but where do you draw a line? Tentacools for 3m no, but oddish for 2.5? Prices change and this would create a problem that would require a lot of moderation to watch a subject we don't really need rn.

 

Yeah kinda meant - sure those are rare, but also limit of price makes little sense because if someone wants to sell huge value shiny he will have to ask for exceptions- and exceptions are bad for set of rules like this.

 

 

Ye but as long as tickets are sold (legit way)- I don't see much problem here. It's still a money that someone has to lose, if you ask your teammates to buy tickets for 500k, and they will win- its them who has shiny, but if they lose, they lose money in your place.

Its kinda like advertising your raffle amongs friends, I personally don't see big issue as long as tickets are sold and paid for. 

Fair points, regarding where we draw the line, I'm not sure, but I think for at least 3-4 of the shinies we can safely say we can safely put limits, (Tentacool/cruel, Klink, Lunatone, Solrock, etc)

 

I think a cooldown on raffles are the best solution IMO, as it's also been the same people who are hosting the raffles.

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1 minute ago, Imperial said:

Fair points, regarding where we draw the line, I'm not sure, but I think for at least 3-4 of the shinies we can safely say we can safely put limits, (Tentacool/cruel, Klink, Lunatone, Solrock, etc)

 

I think a cooldown on raffles are the best solution IMO, as it's also been the same people who are hosting the raffles.

That's why I am against a line anywhere, if players will see a tentacruel they think is overpriced, they can just ignore- some are worth some (31 iv ones for breeding) some no, it just gives a lot of new rules to obey and uh, idk it doesn't really make much sense for me to restrict it this way.

Cooldown, mhm. That's different discussion

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8 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

Cooldown, mhm. That's different discussion

For sure, and this will reduce any abuse which people make from these raffles despite any potential time constraints from getting tickets sold.

 

P.S. I do love our conversations - just want to help address any potential issues which are occurring.

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1 hour ago, Archiver said:

If the problem is players buying cheap shinies in the GTL and using them as raffle prizes, why not just say you can't raffle them out unless they have their OT?

Some get tired of having a poke and would rather raffle it instead of use the GTL for it.

 

Really hard to come up with a ruleset for this, other than a cap on how many raffles can be done per player per time period.

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1 hour ago, Imperial said:

Looks like the number of raffles keep on increasing - but as long as people are buying and the same staff are happy to hold the prizes, nothing will change.

 

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HI! I feel I can contribute here:

 

Raffles are a buy in event based Gambling Mechanic in my opinion. There are many events similar to this that I have seen for buy in competitions and Fundraisers.

If I understand correctly you believe people are being exploited and others are making easy money while cluttering up everything else due to their ease of creation?

Well I personally don't see raffles as an individual issue just a part of a different larger problem of luck based buy in events.

 

My assertion that there is a larger problem could be argued but as I'm new to this forum one of the first things I stumbled on in the trade corner was a lottery event and it looked fun. I participated spending 40k and won the event with a single ticket this is luck and a gamble. These luck based buy in events already require staff to supervise them for legitimacy reasons and I don't believe these events will go away unless banned by staff (Which I don't want to see happen). Buy ins are a problem that can be solved pretty easily (IMO). Make a new section in General

 

Buy In events are their own separate thing that already require staff attention. I believe it would be far more beneficial to have these events all in one place and be easily manageable. Additionally it won't dilute the Trading Corner. If I have gone this far and you are still listening TY, I may lack the knowledge to add more nuanced information/ideas but this is what I see cheers!

 

(P.S.: I'm not great about naming things so you don't need to name a new Section Buy Ins. You can name it Gamblers Ally or Payed events whatever you like , TY )

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MrMalz said:

  

HI! I feel I can contribute here:

 

Raffles are a buy in event based Gambling Mechanic in my opinion. There are many events similar to this that I have seen for buy in competitions and Fundraisers.

If I understand correctly you believe people are being exploited and others are making easy money while cluttering up everything else due to their ease of creation?

Well I personally don't see raffles as an individual issue just a part of a different larger problem of luck based buy in events.

 

My assertion that there is a larger problem could be argued but as I'm new to this forum one of the first things I stumbled on in the trade corner was a lottery event and it looked fun. I participated spending 40k and won the event with a single ticket this is luck and a gamble. These luck based buy in events already require staff to supervise them for legitimacy reasons and I don't believe these events will go away unless banned by staff (Which I don't want to see happen). Buy ins are a problem that can be solved pretty easily (IMO). Make a new section in General

 

Buy In events are their own separate thing that already require staff attention. I believe it would be far more beneficial to have these events all in one place and be easily manageable. Additionally it won't dilute the Trading Corner. If I have gone this far and you are still listening TY, I may lack the knowledge to add more nuanced information/ideas but this is what I see cheers!

 

(P.S.: I'm not great about naming things so you don't need to name a new Section Buy Ins. You can name it Gamblers Ally or Payed events whatever you like , TY )

Hey there! Thanks for giving your opinion, all feedback is valued.

 

The issue wasn't with raffles generally, but rather the quality of the raffle and the amount of profit which people are making, (there's profit and then there's pure taking advantage). Also there seems to be a raffle being created every 1-2 hours, a lot of these for very similar prizes.

 

I have emphasised that a lack of content in the Trade corner is now due to the implementation of GTL, but that still shouldn't mean the Trade corner gets spammed with all of these raffles.

 

When it gets to the point that someone can't sell their shiny on GTL and Trade chat and decides, 'I know, I'll raffle this off because I know everyone will buy them' - that's when it becomes an issue.

 

Generally we shouldn't be encouraging gambling in the first place, I saw on another thread someone complaining that newer players are poor, but these raffles don't help their cause when they spend all of their money on them (this is a generalisation).

 

 

Edited by Imperial
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57 minutes ago, BryanTroya said:

TLDR I think these raffles are a scam and especially unethical since hosts are taking advantage of the lack of knowledge of minors and are at the same time introducing them to gambling. If raffles are here to stay someone should at least warn them about gambling addiction and how they will end up losing money. Although it is not real money, you are making them build a bad habit that may have repercussions in their future.

 

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I think this is just how business works. These people found that raffles are a very profitable business opportunity and decided to exploit it before it gets flooded (which I can see from your last post that it is already happening). Since this is a low entry barrier market (just get any shiny and message a staff for approval) I expect it to go even crazier in the next days or weeks, and this is why I started hiding (blocking?) those hosts from the in-game chat.they are so annoying

 

To answer your original question, in my opinion this is absolutely fine and I don't see anything harm to the community. I also don't know if I got your point right: are you against raffles because some hosts get a huge return on investment from basically rubbish? I am not against raffles but I do think that all of them are a big scam, not only the ones in pokemmo but in general (except, of course, fundrising raffles). Any raffle whose purpose is wholly and exclusively for private profit. Statistically, people that buy raffle tickets will be always losing money in the long run. And I think this is may be one of the reasons why raffles are such a big market in this game: many people don't understand the maths behind, which makes me wonder if most of the player base are under 16 and still in high school (I don't know if there is an age restriction. Most likely not).

 

If that is the case, I consider these raffles an unethical practice and should be forbidden since first, hosts are taking advantage on their lack of knowledge; and second, minors are most likely to develop gambling addiction (although I am not the one to state this and this should be definitely referenced by a relevant research).

 

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At this point, I think I should have explained why I believe these raffles are a scam, but I am not sure how to put it in words. I will try to be as simple as possible:

 

Imagine a raffle whose prize has a market value of $2.5m. The host is selling 100 tickets at $50k each. Why buyers will end up losing in the long run?

 

Now imagine that someone buys 10 tickets for a total value of $500k. He has, therefore, a 10% chance of winning. This means that 1 out of 10 raffles that person will win the lottery (10 tickets out of 100 = 10/100 = 1/10) and this is where I think some people don't analyse further. This implies that after spending $5m (10 times $500k) that person will only win $2.5m.

 

Note that this applies to any amount of tickets bought, it doesn't matter whether one or 50 tickets, you will always end up losing. If you find a raffle where the prize is $2m and there are 100 tickets at $10k, the host is not a great businessman (total value of tickets is less than the prize).

 

This assumes that the buyer plays raffles on a consistent basis (in the long run) and that the prize has a market value (if it doesn't because is unique, congratulations, you found yourself what I consider a real raffle).

 

Anyways, I was only going to send the first paragraph but the idea of minors came to my mind because something similar happened to CSGO (the gambling scandal). Basically, there was a vast amount of gambling sites where they allowed minors to gamble (because legally it wasn't considered gambling). I forgot all the details but my point is that these games introduced minors to gambling (including me with CSGO), and may have future consequences on them.

 

In my case, I started playing poker because of that FPS game. It was fine because it was not real money just like our shiny raffles. However, this had an impact in my life since I started playing real poker in Hippodrome casino here in London. Was that a bad impact? Maybe not. I was getting good at it because I started to study probabilities and odds. I did, in fact, win £1,000 in just two hours. Then why are you telling us this? Because as I said earlier, statistically, you will always end up losing in the long run. I lost all that profit in a matter of weeks. I probably had a minor gambling addiction.

 

In conclusion, I did change my mind while writing this long post. I think raffles should be totally forbidden since there are probably many minors involved in the player base. If you just want to regulate raffles I don't think limiting hosts is necessary. People will still buy from them. Someone should pin a post in the trade section explaining how playing raffles loses you money. This way people will be more aware of rip offs and hosts will have to make fairer deals, indirectly regulating raffles without any kind of management. Of course this is hard to do. Who will be willing to read that? Besides, that is the job of their school.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

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4 hours ago, razimove said:

I hosted some raffles in the past aswell, but it gets to a point where the staff is allowing gambling on a kids game. Idk how this is good for their image or the pokemmo image itself.

Should the game corner be cut out then? RNG in tournies with pretty serious prizes? Shiny rates?

I know this reply of mine is kind of dweebish, but there are plenty of examples that are pretty ingrained into Pokemmo that rely on random chance, be it if it comes to the PVP scene/battles, shiny hunting, etc. A raffle is certainly a pretty direct type of gambling but I don't think it's too egregious compared to what's present already in the game itself.

 

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I have never participated in a raffle, but if anyone is complaining about someone raffling off a 'mon with their profits netting them a million or two more than the market value of the raffled off 'mon... why not just refuse to participate in those kind of raffles? People refuse to buy the 1x31 shiny tentacruel for 10 mil all the time, raffles should be no different.

 

 

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I've also wanted to do a fun raffle for a shiny. 200 tickets, max 1 ticket per user, entry fee of a Lava Cookie and was told it can't be an item, so I then asked about a $1 entry fee, and the raffle was declined since they should be for "serious raffles".

 

I guess using the raffle as a fun 'giveaway' for everyone is different than charging 3x the price for a shiny in total fees. =\

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On 3/25/2021 at 7:35 PM, Reckless said:

you should consider the time and effort it actually takes to sell these tickets

I just saw this. Lmao what effort it takes, the shiny some people raffling are straight took from gtl for 2m-2.5m. In the time of ticket selling you can just go gym run and make another rubbish raffle one after another.

Only the raffle value should be limited cause it make no sense on making 3m more than market in some common shiny pokes.

The staff said it's good... Then what.. just kill the economy which is already super broken.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Raichuforyou said:

Should the game corner be cut out then? RNG in tournies with pretty serious prizes? Shiny rates?

I know this reply of mine is kind of dweebish, but there are plenty of examples that are pretty ingrained into Pokemmo that rely on random chance, be it if it comes to the PVP scene/battles, shiny hunting, etc. A raffle is certainly a pretty direct type of gambling but I don't think it's too egregious compared to what's present already in the game itself.

 

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I have never participated in a raffle, but if anyone is complaining about someone raffling off a 'mon with their profits netting them a million or two more than the market value of the raffled off 'mon... why not just refuse to participate in those kind of raffles? People refuse to buy the 1x31 shiny tentacruel for 10 mil all the time, raffles should be no different.

 

 

Fun fact, casinos were cut off pokemon games shortly after gen3 or 4. And you dont really gamble much on them. Plus there is a big difference between staff encouraging them, and them existing as a game mechanic that is completely obsolete and nobody uses.

 

There is a very fine line that shouldnt be crossed, while im not against raffles on its own, just like there is psl bets etc, staff encouraging them shouldnt be a thing imo.

Edited by razimove
And trust me, I do my fair share of gambling outside, 1 week ago 130 csgo keys burned sadly.
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Food for thought.

 

What's the difference between people doing this on forums through raffles with ridiculous prices vs. "well known and respected" members of the community lowballing and deceiving noobs to get their shinies for cheap? A lot of these ridiculous raffles are by newer or less-wealthy players who are upsetting the game.

 

I'd actually say the overpriced raffles are significantly less scummy and infinitely more respectable than deceiving and lying to noobs to (in my own opinion) scam them out of their Pokemon.

 

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The fact you think trying to "pull one over" on a noob is a respectable thing is honestly... well.... pretty scummy ngl. 

 

Also, that's done behind closed doors where a raffle is fully public. 

 

Edit:

 

Honestly, a lot of this just seems like people are pissed that noobs are using other noobs and some vets to generate a lot of money in a short period of time, and acquiring too much wealth. While the auctions are ridiculous, this just seems like jealousy at this point. Nobody is actually worried about gambling, they're worried about others amassing money. Just my 2 cents. 

Edited by EssDeeCee
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, EssDeeCee said:

Honestly, a lot of this just seems like people are pissed that noobs are using other noobs and some vets to generate a lot of money in a short period of time, and acquiring too much wealth. While the auctions are ridiculous, this just seems like jealousy at this point. Nobody is actually worried about gambling, they're worried about others amassing money. Just my 2 cents. 

Personally I'm not jealous at all, I've been profiting naturally and have been experienced in the trading business on games for a number of years.

 

My main issue has been and is the quality of raffles are decreasing, while the total number of tickets and ticket costs are going up - also the number of raffles being hosted in such a short space of time.

 

The main solution I want is to limit the number of raffles one individual can host - not to stop raffles overall. It also gives players more incentive and more creativity to earn money, not immediately raffling the first shiny they've bought from GTL.

Edited by Imperial
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5 minutes ago, Imperial said:

Personally I'm not jealous at all, I've been profiting naturally and have been experienced in the trading business on games for a number of years.

 

My main issue has been and is the quality of raffles are decreasing, while the total number of tickets and ticket costs are going up - also the number of raffles being hosted in such a short space of time.

 

The main solution I want is to limit the number of raffles one individual can host - not to stop raffles overall. It also gives players more incentive and more creativity to earn money, not immediately raffling the first shiny they've bought from GTL.

I agree the raffles are pretty crappy and too numerous, and there should be some limit of X per month per user. It's just a crapshoot currently. 

 

Many here are arguing it from idk what standpoint about the pricing. I mean, 2 users agreed to the price... That's their defense for lowballing and deceiving others. 

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I honestly feel an overpriced raffle is better than deceiving people and being a con artist, but I appear to be a minority here. 

 

One is done publicly, fully disclosed, and you know what's happening, the other is done shadily behind closed doors with someone lying to you about how much it's worth.

 

Comparing a raffle with ridiculous pricing to being a con artist, and saying the raffle is worse, is very telling. 

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I feel like a lot of people are losing grasp of the concept of this just being a 'game'. C'mon people.. This isn't REAL money. In regards to minors buying tickets and not understanding how they could lose money - well, that is the minority. Most of them who are participating I'm sure are well aware of how lotteries work. It isn't that hard to figure out, really. If someone asks me, 'How does the raffle work'? I always take the time out to explain it to them to the best of my ability. People that buy my tickets understand there is risk involved and because the price of winning a shiny is considerably cheap - they take the risk over hunting for hours/days/weeks for a shiny they may want. The time some of you spend complaining about people making money off of raffles can be better spent making possibly the same amount of money OR MORE doing gym runs/trainer runs/flipping pokemon in the GTL. 

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