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What are your thoughts on these 'raffles'?


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So @CHUCKunso did a meme thread about this a few days ago which gave me a good laugh, but I wanted to have a more serious discussion about this.

 

Just before I start - I've hosted a few raffles in the past so I can see the strengths to hosting one, but...

 

Surely lately these raffles have become out of control? The number of raffles dominating the Trade Corner is ridiculous and lately several ones appearing recently are just abusing the system.

 

I apologise for the name and shame but wanted to show a perfect example below:

 

 

This raffle is for 2 shiny Pokemon - this sounds good at first glance. But each ticket is 35k with 200 tickets available - meaning that the person will receive 7m once all tickets have been sold. On the top of my head, these 2 Shiny Pokemon would probably sell for around 4m on GTL, meaning this person has made 3m profit. The fact that there are 200 tickets as well mean that players (their choice of course) may have to buy several tickets for a higher chance of winning - potentially spending as much money as it would've cost them to purchase the shiny from GTL / Trade chat itself.

 

Now once this raffle has been sold, the same person can buy some low priced / undesired shinies the next day and use them as 'raffles', hence repeating the process.

 

Another issue I've noticed is people are asking their team mates to buy the majority of tickets, which of course is their choice, but can ultimately influence the winner of the raffle, especially for those which can be expensive to buy tickets.

 

I remember there was a period when the demand for raffles had dropped and therefore people stopped hosting them, but now as more and more people can see how easy and convenient this method is to make easy $$$ and people are still buying all the tickets, more and more people are hosting their own raffles, with less quality shinies.

 

What I propose:

  • Limiting the number of raffles which one person can host (e.g. Once you've hosted one raffle you need to wait 1-2 months before hosting another)
  • Limiting the number of raffles which are active at one time
  • Ensuring that raffles reflect the market value to avoid people only hosting them to make 2-3m profit on rubbish shinies
  • Putting a limit on the maximum price charged for each ticket based on the intended number of tickets made available
  • Limiting the number of tickets a person can buy depending on the prize and the ticket price

 

Benefits:

  • Stops people from abusing the system to profit millions on rubbish shinies which would hardly sell otherwise
  • Stops the Trade Corner from being flooded with countless raffles (Quality > Quantity)

 

Of course this is just my opinion, and may not reflect the communities as a whole - therefore I wanted to create this thread to see what other people think, potentially I'm in the minority.

Edited by Imperial
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So @CHUCKunso did a meme thread about this a few days ago which gave me a good laugh, but I wanted to have a more serious discussion about this.   Just before I start - I've hosted a few raf

I'm just amazed that people participate in raffles from shines that were obviously bought from gtl 2 minutes before and now are sold in tickets for double the price 

We have came to decision to change raffle system to new rules: - Only 1 item/ 1 pokemon can be put on a raffle. - A limit of 1 raffle per user will be allowed.    This changes do not apply

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Good post but in my opinion you should consider the time and effort it actually takes to sell these tickets along with the fact that not everyone is going to sell the entirety of their tickets in the first place as well as the true profit one will make (after possibly over paying for the shinies which I do quite often). I may have sold tickets rather 'fast' with my first raffle but I've had a lot of extra time lately to do so. The amount of time and effort mentioned above to run my first raffle which sold 150 tickets to win the Shiny Marowak @ 20k each was quite exhausting. The time investment alone (advertising your raffle, convincing people to buy tickets, teaching people about the system, helping new players aquire tickets, keeping track of tickets) makes me less likely to do this consecutively. Also, take a look at the hardcore players who grow berries on 4 or 5 accounts. Do you think they should be limited as well? 

 

 

Edited by Reckless
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Also, if you'd like to single me out - take a look at this Raffle by Blue. These shinies aren't worth much. Let's say they're worth about 10m for the 5 of them. 100 Tickets at 350k a piece? Think before you single out one person.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Reckless said:

Also, if you'd like to single me out - take a look at this Raffle by Blue. These shinies aren't worth much. Let's say they're worth about 10m for the 5 of them. 100 Tickets at 350k a piece? Think before you single out one person.

 

 

Damn! you got me. Time to find some other mareep and houndour and buy them for 10m.....

You people should stop messing with this gentleman and start shit with me. Clearly, like he implied before, he payed 10m for each garbage common shiny he raffles so leave him alone.

 

 

 

Edited by Blue
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Also, I'm sure a lot of you guys watch the Shiny Market....

How many times have you bought undervauled Shinies and relisted them or Raffled them off?

How about we ask EVERY single person how much they paid for the shinies they're raffling off and see how UNFAIR I'm being.

Oh and what about the person who wins the Raffle? Are they making too much profit?

Edited by Reckless
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29 minutes ago, Reckless said:

Also, if you'd like to single me out - take a look at this Raffle by Blue. These shinies aren't worth much. Let's say they're worth about 10m for the 5 of them. 100 Tickets at 350k a piece? Think before you single out one person.

 

 

don't know how you enough stupid you are but  that raffle was kinda worth after blue added 2 more shiny. just you should  calc the value of mareep and houndour only that goes over 10m at least for mareep since its female and good start ivs to make it competitive. before saying stupid things, please be informed on some things, at least i repeat, that raffle was worth, than your one that you was trying to scam people by doing a 4m profit. Don't be so jelosus :* peace.

 

also anyway i would agree with @Imperial posts uwu

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46 minutes ago, Reckless said:

Also, if you'd like to single me out - take a look at this Raffle by Blue. These shinies aren't worth much. Let's say they're worth about 10m for the 5 of them. 100 Tickets at 350k a piece? Think before you single out one person.

 

 

Well I haven't bought any ticket from it but I can assure you this raffle is very decent.

I agree with imperial. There are some shit raffles with 2-3.5m Profit than regular.. 

Big F

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Well, they can be fun if bored but, definition of a pyramid scheme like Mary Kay + Poke’Mon. I say simply don’t buy a ticket then. I’ve been thinking of trying a raffle, but I know the time & effort to sell tickets doesn’t match the enormous profit some of these raffles create. 
 

Edit: as a new player with about 140 hours, (I think that’s considered new) I have asked myself why doesn’t everyone do this? First raffle I saw I did the math and was pretty baffled.

Edited by TheyCALLmeONIX
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Also, what is stopping someone from having their teammates buy tickets or buying tickets on their alts in hopes of showing "more action" and making money by shady ways like that?

 

Definitely should be a dedicated forum and maybe like X raffles per month per user. As Quakkz just said, a lot of these are just random ass shinies bought off GTL and being auctioned for 2x what they bought it for. While that's not inherently wrong, it just clogs the forums.

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Yeah the current state of raffles is kinda ridiculous. I think some restrictions need to be implemented, such as having a limit as to how many raffles are being held at once and how many times per month a player can hold a raffle. Although, I still think that there should be some form of profit allowed as this is what makes raffles lucrative in the first place, there's a benefit for both the holder and the winner which is (in my opinion) the way it should be. At the end of the day people can decide whether they believe that a raffle is overpriced or not and buy tickets based on their best judgement. As we can see raffles currently have huge popularity and it'd be a shame to let that die down due to there being way too many restrictions.

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3 hours ago, CHUCKunso said:

Oh boy you missed out as it seems.

Just saw your meme thread. Why was the money sent back? You advertised properly and there was no bamboozle. 

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7 hours ago, BaliAds said:

Yeah the current state of raffles is kinda ridiculous. I think some restrictions need to be implemented, such as having a limit as to how many raffles are being held at once and how many times per month a player can hold a raffle. Although, I still think that there should be some form of profit allowed as this is what makes raffles lucrative in the first place, there's a benefit for both the holder and the winner which is (in my opinion) the way it should be. At the end of the day people can decide whether they believe that a raffle is overpriced or not and buy tickets based on their best judgement. As we can see raffles currently have huge popularity and it'd be a shame to let that die down due to there being way too many restrictions.

I definitely agree that profits should still be encouraged and raffles to go ahead, but there's a difference between the two following scenarios:

 

Scenario 1: Buying a Shiny Houndour for 5m on GTL, raffling 100 tickets for 60k each (6m - 1m profit)

Scenario 2: Buying a 1x31 Shiny Tentacool for 800k on GTL, raffling 200 tickets for 15k each (3m - 2.2m profit)

 

Scenario 1 gives you profit, but for a more rarer and desired shiny. Scenario 2 gives you double the profit compared to Scenario 1, for a very common shiny which pops up on GTL every few hours.

 

We're seeing scenario 2 a lot more recently than with scenario 1, and this is encouraging more and more to do the same with less quality shinies, which is where the problem is.

 

If raffles are only seen as a way to remove your worst shinies / make massive profit for undesired ones instead of raffling shinies which the community previously would usually benefit from (e.g. A semi comp shiny or a slightly rare one) whilst the host still makes a decent profit then there shouldn't be raffles hosted in the first place.

 

A few years ago there were more higher quality raffles, and that's how it should be (although demand had stopped).

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Limit on player for hosting raffle will be hard to trace (for ticket buyers). One can simply use alts.

 

If limit is imposed on player (including alts), will there be limitations on players who grows berries/gym/e4 runs or any other activities?

 

From what I have seen from Chinese community, it is common for

1) farmers to have at least 10 alts

2) e4 runners running e4 with at least 2 characters on 2 devices at same time (pro runs 4 on 4 devices)

3) same goes for gym runners

 

The problem is, limitations like this (or nerfs) will not limit veterans, but newcomers will be suffering from such changes

 

Raffle do have its problem, but I couldn't think of anyway to improve for now

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I feel like the more there will be raffles, the less there will be players buying tickets. If we look at the last ones, 60-70% of tickets are bought by 2-3 players. I feel that the economy of that won't be as problematic, since it would only be a gamble by rich players ; but it would sure change the spirit of raffles. 

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On 3/25/2021 at 9:49 PM, Imperial said:

 

Another issue I've noticed is people are asking their team mates to buy the majority of tickets, which of course is their choice, but can ultimately influence the winner of the raffle, especially for those which can be expensive to buy tickets.

 

 

What I propose:

  • Limiting the number of raffles which one person can host (e.g. Once you've hosted one raffle you need to wait 1-2 months before hosting another)
  • Limiting the number of raffles which are active at one time
  • Ensuring that raffles reflect the market value to avoid people only hosting them to make 2-3m profit on rubbish shinies
  • Putting a limit on the maximum price charged for each ticket based on the intended number of tickets made available
  • Limiting the number of tickets a person can buy depending on the prize and the ticket price

there is nothing wrong at your team mates buying raffle tickets, it is by their own volition to do so. (i consider them more like friends than team mates)

 

raffle limitations you suggested are good though. 

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  • Limiting the number of raffles which one person can host (e.g. Once you've hosted one raffle you need to wait 1-2 months before hosting another)

Only possible solution most likely^

 

  • Limiting the number of raffles which are active at one time

It turns into "who will be first to contact us" and "but I sent a message on forum and he sent on discord"

 

  • Ensuring that raffles reflect the market value to avoid people only hosting them to make 2-3m profit on rubbish shinies

Can't happen, value is subjective and we will not put a solid prize tag on any shiny

 

  • Putting a limit on the maximum price charged for each ticket based on the intended number of tickets made available

That would kill the biggest raffles and isn't good imo. 

 

  • Limiting the number of tickets a person can buy depending on the prize and the ticket price

Would also potentially kill raffles, and imo not good solution.

 

 

 

 

 

Lately raffles do sell, but it isn't always the case. Sometimes hosts were at lost, losing a lot of money. If the "overprized" raffle sells its because players want to buy tickets obviously- they want to pay for that chance of getting prize for low cost.

You are losing small portion of money when you can win big profit for yourself, while host gets a profit for his time put into the raffle- it's win-win situation.


Perhaps limit or subforum can be solutions but dunno, wonder how long situation with raffles will stay as it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that its just my point of view, not our discussed statement or anything so far, Im curious about reading opinions

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Limiting time between raffles per person, with a way to check for Alts will be ideal. A lot will be against it however and it could kill future raffles.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bearminator said:

 

  • Limiting the number of raffles which are active at one time

It turns into "who will be first to contact us" and "but I sent a message on forum and he sent on discord"

This sounds easy in theory, but probably harder to implement in practice, but:

 

Creating a sub-section on the Forums where each staff member posts the raffles they're helping to host alongside the deadline - each staff member is able to host a certain number of raffles, and only a certain number of staff can help with hosting the raffle. This will be updated accordingly based on when each raffle begins/ends.

 

2 hours ago, Bearminator said:

Can't happen, value is subjective and we will not put a solid prize tag on any shiny

That's true to an extent, but you can't say 3m for a 1x31 Shiny Tentacool or any other very common shiny is subjective - you can say this for the more rarer / desired shinies.

 

2 hours ago, Bearminator said:

That would kill the biggest raffles and isn't good imo. 

It depends, would you want someone to host a raffle for 500k per ticket for 100 tickets (unless the shiny is extremely rare such as a starter). I acknowledge this may be the least possible solution.

 

2 hours ago, Bearminator said:
  • Limiting the number of tickets a person can buy depending on the prize and the ticket price

Would also potentially kill raffles, and imo not good solution.

 

It enables more people to purchase tickets for a raffle and stops an individual from potentially influencing the results of the raffle, (e.g. Hey friend - please buy 60 tickets from my raffle). Potentially you can remove any restrictions on the number of tickets bought if there was less than a week remaining and there were still a significant number of tickets still to be sold, but then that shows a negative reflection on the raffle and emphasises that there was something wrong with it in the first place.

 

2 hours ago, Bearminator said:

 

Lately raffles do sell, but it isn't always the case. Sometimes hosts were at lost, losing a lot of money. If the "overprized" raffle sells its because players want to buy tickets obviously- they want to pay for that chance of getting prize for low cost.

You are losing small portion of money when you can win big profit for yourself, while host gets a profit for his time put into the raffle- it's win-win situation.

But this is the problem and the reason I created this thread in the first place - raffles are selling (which is good) but people are abusing this by selling very stupid shinies for very stupid prices. There are a only a few exceptions where I saw decent prized raffles and even then they could be questionable. 

 

I understand that GTL is a huge factor, but when the Trade Corner is pretty much 20% breeding/EV shops and 80% raffles, there's a problem.

 

I'd be interested to know what the staff members who regularly host these raffles think too.

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5 minutes ago, Imperial said:

 

That's true to an extent, but you can't say 3m for a 1x31 Shiny Tentacool or any other very common shiny is subjective - you can say this for the more rarer / desired shinies.

Alright, but where do you draw a line? Tentacools for 3m no, but oddish for 2.5? Prices change and this would create a problem that would require a lot of moderation to watch a subject we don't really need rn.

 

5 minutes ago, Imperial said:

It depends, would you want someone to host a raffle for 500k per ticket for 100 tickets (unless the shiny is extremely rare such as a starter). I acknowledge this may be the least possible solution.

Yeah kinda meant - sure those are rare, but also limit of price makes little sense because if someone wants to sell huge value shiny he will have to ask for exceptions- and exceptions are bad for set of rules like this.

 

5 minutes ago, Imperial said:

 

It enables more people to purchase tickets for a raffle and stops an individual from potentially influencing the results of the raffle, (e.g. Hey friend - please buy 60 tickets from my raffle). Potentially you can remove any restrictions on the number of tickets bought if there was less than a week remaining and there were still a significant number of tickets still to be sold, but then that shows a negative reflection on the raffle and emphasises that there was something wrong with it in the first place.

 

Ye but as long as tickets are sold (legit way)- I don't see much problem here. It's still a money that someone has to lose, if you ask your teammates to buy tickets for 500k, and they will win- its them who has shiny, but if they lose, they lose money in your place.

Its kinda like advertising your raffle amongs friends, I personally don't see big issue as long as tickets are sold and paid for. 

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