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Move Usage Statistics


Zymogen

Question

The statistics tab of the matchmaking signup UI is a fantastic resource for analysing meta trends for teambuilding purposes, but one thing that I think would improve it even further would be to add statistics for moves used on each Pokemon too, in the same way that there are columns for Natures & Items. 

 

Not a necessary function by any means but it'd certainly be a very helpful addition, particularly for those who are branching out into new tiers, as there are lots of Pokemon that have several viable sets and it can be difficult to gauge which is the most common when building teams. This can of course be accomplished by simply playing matchmaking and making your own observations, but it would be a welcome QoL update nonetheless.

Edited by Zymogen
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I believe that there would need to be a limit on how many moves will be showed, just for simple UI reasons, cos that would take a lot of place. Otherwise I agree :D 

Smogon is a good resource for that, but being 1. out of the game and 2. not always relevant to MMO meta, it's always better to rely on something in-game, and I believe that"s what MMO lacks a lot, relying on forum and things like this. 

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49 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

I believe that there would need to be a limit on how many moves will be showed, just for simple UI reasons, cos that would take a lot of place.

A few ways to handle that are to either have it laid out like the GTL where the statistics are paged, or they can have a minimum usage score required before a move will show up in the statistics. Perhaps a combination of both would work, though infinite scrolling can be an option if it is viable in this context.

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I kinda believe this gives too much information and wouldn't want that in the tiers I play.

 

Let me explain : say I'm the only player to use Basculin in NU ranked this season (wouldn't be surprised if that was the case)

Anyone can already just open a PVP tab and see what my nature and item is, imagine now if they could know my full moveset too 

 

I mean while in ladder, any player can just ask a friend to check out pvp tab and tell them what my moveset is

Then what ?

Makes original builds and tech moves like HP electric I run on my Bascu be totally irrelevant because people wouldn't take the bait and send Mantine on it, see what I mean ?

 

Eitherway, could be a good idea, but fucks up original mons, and promotes theorymon rather than playing to experiment and see what other people use, I rather have people need to play to be relevant and know what the others use as a moveset ^^

Natures is different because it's harder to guess and it provides important information for your EV spreads and stuff

 

 

PS : On a side note, sure many people would benefit from the information on moves most common mons use to get in the tier, as many NU mons moveset are quite typical to our meta and nothing alike smogon's, maybe it would be more appropriate to get seasonal data about each mons outside of the game, like smogon does, that we could convert into possible forum guides and such ?

Edited by TohnR
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3 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I kinda believe this gives too much information and wouldn't want that in the tiers I play.

 

Let me explain : say I'm the only player to use Basculin in NU ranked this season (wouldn't be surprised if that was the case)

Anyone can already just open a PVP tab and see what my nature and item is, imagine now if they could know my full moveset too 

 

I mean while in ladder, any player can just ask a friend to check out pvp tab and tell them what my moveset is

Then what ?

Makes original builds and tech moves like HP electric I run on my Bascu be totally irrelevant because people wouldn't take the bait and send Mantine on it, see what I mean ?

 

Eitherway, could be a good idea, but fucks up original mons, and promotes theorymon rather than playing to experiment and see what other people use, I rather have people need to play to be relevant and know what the others use as a moveset ^^

Natures is different because it's harder to guess and it provides important information for your EV spreads and stuff

Yeah, I see what you mean. It would make unique sets slightly more identifiable if you truly were the only person to use them. But realistically, what are the chances that you'll be a) the only person to use one particular mon in an entire season, and b) the only person to use that particular set on that particular mon? Either way, in my eyes Smogon does the exact same thing, except that it would be more accurate to his metagame if it came straight from our statistics.

 

Having said that, if it was that ground-breaking of a set that people immediately recognised you as the only person who used it and therefore knew to look out for the set on the statistics, then imo it would naturally catch on regardless of whether the stats are freely available. This is something that happens all the time with players who regularly use unconventional sets and it comes inherently as part of the risk of using unique strategies, seeing as we have the ability to spectate matchmaking and access to permanent tournament replays. I suppose if there was a usage cut-off for moves listed on the database then that would at least help to attenuate this, though

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Top movesets should be listed only if a certain threshold of users employ them, this gets rid of the scouting problem. Also movesets should be listed instead of moves so nobs don't go random picking the top moves even if they are from different builds.

Add a search function while you are at it.

Edited by axx
typo'nt
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Infinite scrolls are, imo, a big no, because original builds will get rendered useless, via extra and outside of battle available information a player should have either way. However, listing only the most common moves is alright, or something like listing only the upper half of the most common moves or whatever (so it also doesnt give the full info about an abysmal used pokemon).

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Something like a usage limit to be displayed would totally solve the deep scouting issue

 

And what you say about people being able to watch your ladder battles and know the set anyway, that's absolutely wrong unless you're paranoid about it.

That'd be true if you were spamming that special set&mon, but that's fine, what I wanna avoid is playing just a few games is enough to fuck you up for the whole season ^^

It's typically easy to check the statistics pane in here during tournament games via a team mate :)

 

Eitherway, Smogon might have moveset usage statistics but there's :

1 - Much more players

2 - Much more tiers (so less viable but unused mons in the bottom tiers)

3 - And the data requires more effort to be found when in a game (I'm sure no-one even checks that during games besides the scouting tool that doesn't work anymore)

So that problem is imo limited to our untiered mons usage in NU

 

Anyways, I could definitely see the benefits outbalancing the flaws for the overall community

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