February-Movement Discussion Thread

[Munya]

Cutoffs this month are 6.7% to move up, 1.7% to move down, nothing changes this month based off usage. Any problems in the tiers that need discussing?  Have at it below.

[FC]

Ban Conkeldurr or Conkeldurr with Flame Orb. 

[ThinkNicer]

So how has Trode and Trio been in NU?

[Makarovs]

I forgot that the 4.36% thing was over, I was curious how Swampert was going to do in the UU this month. Isn't 1.7% too low?

Edited January 29, 2021 by Makarovs

[Quinn010]

free swampert

[Imperial]

4 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

So how has Trode and Trio been in NU?

Electrode isn't much of an issue and can be dealt with to a certain extent, Dugtrio is the issue as @TohnR explained a while back.

 

I also don't think Machamp has been that bad either.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Imperial

[Munya]

8 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

So how has Trode and Trio been in NU?

10-11% usage, less than 50% win rate in total usage, just barely over 50% in tournaments only.  For dug that is trode is worse.

[xMago]

I don't know if it will be too late to give my opinion, but for many people Dugtrio is an excruciating headache when it comes to building different teams ... or teams are copied, or little new things have been seen this month in the tier of NU.

 

Electrode if dugtrio is banned, i not see problem for keep in NU.

 

On 1/29/2021 at 3:20 PM, Makarovs said:

I forgot that the 4.36% thing was over, I was curious how Swampert was going to do in the UU this month. Isn't 1.7% too low?

Swampert i guess will go down next month for use if it continues to have the same use as this month...
I do not see that it is a great danger to the tier UU

[DoubleJ]

Overall, Dugtrio seems to have found a decent home in NU. Having done away with the attack buff that came with Gen 7 we no longer have the raw power to OHKO some of the elite threats in either OU and UU, and thus its usage dropped significantly. Add in the fact that Memento boosted hyper offense is seen less and less, and sash sets are readily thwarted by our game's tendency to rely on hazards.

 

Now, having seen NU evolve it seems while Dugtrio is getting usage it really isn't making that much of an impact. Is it limiting teambuilding? Certainly. Gone are the days when you could simply use a hit-and-run strategy with Nukes like Specs Overheat Houndoom or Blaziken. You even have to be somewhat mindful with your Drapion as it Taunts its way through the tier, and with Steelix and Nidoqueen as they take chip damage from a variety of mons.

 

Overall though, Dugtrio has not broken NU. Dugtrio is not slaying every special attacker known to man. While it could be played better and could still prove to be a menace, right now it looks right at home in the Wild, Wild West of Neverused.

[TohnR]

Ue JJ talking on tiers he doesn't play again c:

What was it in the TC podcast ? Something like "Umbreon has a major role to play in UU" ? Lmao

 

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Dugtrio is not slaying every special attacker known to man.

And now you're saying Dugtrio doesn't OHKO everything, thank god it doesn't imagine if it did ...

Also, why special attacker especially ? Is Dugtrio known for trapping only special attackers ? I don't understand are you just adding words to make it look cool ?

 

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

You even have to be somewhat mindful with your Drapion as it Taunts its way through the tier, and with Steelix and Nidoqueen as they take chip damage from a variety of mons.

Also Drapion doesn't need to be mindful, Drapion is just dead, unless you set it on sub. Drapion doesn't use taunt either, on most of what people use, don't see how this is relevant ? Nidoqueen is also dead by the way, chipped or not, unless people start running it with defense nature and evs which wasn't the main nature as of lately.

I wish these 3 were the only main things that became unviable due to Dugtrio existing, if you have any doubts refer to my post on January Tier Discussion.

 

TC keeps being delusional, the usual, all I see is now most teams are bad and rely on having 0 mons being trapped, either that or abusing weathers since Gigalith is gone or straight up trap stall with Wobby or Dug. Then they will say "b-but Dugtrio has only 10% usage" yea that's a lot, for a mon that requires to build on abusing your opponent, many people won't want to use it in the first place.

Give me a list of mons who ain't trapped by any set of Dugtrio and can pass Bronzor + Mantine (bold), let's see how limited this metagame is now

 

We reached a point where people host tournaments with a Dugtrio clause, any friendly match I've had in NU was using that too since the drop.

TLDR; TC is doing a good job as per usual

 

Spoiler

About Swampert in UU, considering there is already a consensus of spamming 3 waters per team due to grass having no strong presence in the tier, I don't think that would be a good idea. Maybe worth testing tho, see where this meta goes if it ever was to drop

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by TohnR

[gbwead]

Dugtrio's usage and win rate have dropped considerably compared to the beginning of the month. Let's just hope this trend continues. I agree that 10% usage is too much for a cancerous mon like Dugtrio and, long term if it stays used as much as it is now, there is no doubt in my mind that Dugtrio would need to be banned. I'm personally surprised Dugtrio is used as much as it is now. I feel people might have hyped Dugtrio a little bit too much and, now that the hype is fading, NU will go back to normal hopefully.

[Azphiel]

Swampert would be really cool in UU as it would be an additional tool to deal with the extremely annoying Rotom-H

[Limbow]

maaan no slapping monkey back in NU? lame

[DoubleJ]

@TohnR I don't mean to sound petty but is your argument that you're bad? Cuz not being able to handle something with little usage and a shit win % kinda sounds like it. 

 

We refer to competitive play as a "metagame" where things are dynamic. We can't reliably predict what is considered good or what is considered bad, we just adapt as tier shifts happen. 

 

It does suck that we have to invest defensive ev's on nidoqueen now, and can't just let Steelix take endless damage, or just let Drapion come in and out without consequence. It also sucks we have to tip toe with Manetric, Magneton, and Espeon. Or pray our Blaziken and Houndoom don't get rk'd. 

 

I'm sorry you have to be more creative and play better because a pokemon that is so bad it fell to NU where it's finally getting played 10% of the time. 

 

We don't ban just because something forces change. Oh and your posts in January were largely based on my own argument that it would be broken, but hey, I was wrong. 

 

Viva la Dugtrio

[Quinn010]

11 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

because a pokemon that is so bad it fell to NU where it's finally getting played 10% of the time. 

why does it matter that a pokemon suck in a other tier lol 

[DoubleJ]

16 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

why does it matter that a pokemon suck in a other tier lol 

It doesn't. 

[ThinkNicer]

Disclaimer: I know shit all about NU

 

In general I wouldn't be happy to see a mon with such a bs ability to be anywhere near 10% usage. A pokemon gthat forces a metagame to adapt is not a bad thing at all. The bad thing would be if the adaptation itself forces the meta to become stagnant or exploitable by use of uncompetitive methods (aka Arena Trap). Maybe Doom has to run blackglasses with Sucker Punch now. Maybe Blaziken is almost forced to run Scarf. All in all it's probably too little time to tell if Dugtrio is really bad for NU, or if NU now just looks different.

[Kupokun]

In the very limited matches I've had in NU so far this season, including friendly matches i've found using Custap Berry Steelix when facing Dugtrio tends to work nicely. 
If sash, Dugtrio doesn't 2HKO so if he doubles EQ i'm in Custap range & if they're banded they knock me down to Custap range which is where i can kill it. 
That's all i have to say. ^^ 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Kupokun

[TohnR]

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

I don't mean to sound petty but is your argument that you're bad? Cuz not being able to handle something with little usage and a shit win % kinda sounds like it. 

No my only argument is the calcs I provided in January, while you are trying to talk about something you have absolutely no knowledge of

I never said that I can't win cause Dugtrio exists, I'm saying I won't play cause the tier is uninteresting if Dugtrio exists

And why is that ? Because we have to use a limited pool of mons who aren't weak to Dugtrio when building, unless accepting to die to dug teams which is taking 10% of loses for free :) I'm sure nobody would want that r-right

 

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

It does suck that we have to invest defensive ev's on nidoqueen now, and can't just let Steelix take endless damage, or just let Drapion come in and out without consequence. It also sucks we have to tip toe with Manetric, Magneton, and Espeon. Or pray our Blaziken and Houndoom don't get rk'd. 

You're only referring to those 3 mons when the list contains 80% of the NU Metagame from December usages (before it dropped) as stated earlier

 

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

I'm sorry you have to be more creative and play better because a pokemon that is so bad it fell to NU where it's finally getting played 10% of the time. 

I really like how your only arguments is if you don't want to play a broken tier then you're bad. I'm assuming you're also bad since you can't play in NU either ? I ranked Dugtrio B- in the viability ranklists while it was still in UU, I know it was bad there, that's not making a point.

Do I have to spam dugtrio stall in ladder for people to get it ? Well even if I did TC wouldn't realize cause they don't play :)

 

2 hours ago, DoubleJ said:

Oh and your posts in January were largely based on my own argument that it would be broken, but hey, I was wrong. 

How could you know if my post was based on your argument or not ? Lmao

I've provided an argument because I thought Dug was broken, I don't even know what was your argument back then. By the way, you don't have to keep answering, I've gotten your point and opinion, you've gotten mine, I think we are done here, I'm not gonna be a gb and argue for 25 pages

Edited February 1, 2021 by TohnR

[DoubleJ]

16 minutes ago, TohnR said:

No my only argument is the calcs I provided in January, while you are trying to talk about something you have absolutely no knowledge of

I never said that I can't win cause Dugtrio exists, I'm saying I won't play cause the tier is uninteresting if Dugtrio exists

And why is that ? Because we have to use a limited pool of mons who aren't weak to Dugtrio when building, unless accepting to die to dug teams which is taking 10% of loses for free :) I'm sure nobody would want that r-right

It now sounds like you're so bad you refuse to play because Dug scares you so much. 

 

NU players are supposed to be some of the most creative with the biggest pool of viable mons in any tier. Come back with a better argument than I can't use my usual teams. 

[TohnR]

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

It now sounds like you're so bad you refuse to play because Dug scares you so much. 

 

NU players are supposed to be some of the most creative with the biggest pool of viable mons in any tier. Come back with a better argument than I can't use my usual teams. 

Yea that's really your only argument "oh you bad" kk 

Edited February 1, 2021 by TohnR

[DoubleJ]

55 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Yea that's really your only argument "oh you bad" kk 

It wasn't but "kk"

 

Feel free to spam Dugtrio in the ladder as you had mentioned though. If it's objectively broken or unhealthy, we as the TC would be happy to make a move to ban. It just isn't at this point. 

[Munya]

1 hour ago, TohnR said:

And why is that ? Because we have to use a limited pool of mons who aren't weak to Dugtrio when building, unless accepting to die to dug teams which is taking 10% of loses for free :) I'm sure nobody would want that r-right

 

5%, it lost 50% of the time.

[MiraiZura]

Imagine thinking that nu players are creative, when they only spam leads and 5 randoms sweepers

[Haxeado]

is there any way to nerf the climates in any way? I can not stop finding this garbage in pvp.