Jump to content

Rate My Team (Doubles)


Recommended Posts

Hey everyone! It's been a while since I've played PokeMMO, and the doubles metagame has shifted about quite a lot in the time I've been away, so I'd really appreciate some help in finalizing some of my team ideas. 

 

Updated Team: https://pokepast.es/d954aeaa3b93df37 

 

The Team

 

Garchomp  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & WhiteMetagross  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & WhiteCrobat  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & WhiteRotom  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & WhiteTyranitar  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & WhiteSalamence  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Since I was last active, Garchomp has been hit HARD - no swords dance means it is now intimidate bait. This is where Crobat comes in. With a Swagger+Lum Berry combo, Crobat enables both Garchomp and Metagross to deal vast amounts of damage in a single turn, whilst simultaneously putting pressure on Hitmontop, the most common intimidate user. Taunt+Tailwind also makes for a great speed control option, with the rest of the team benefiting from this also. 

 

In Depth

 

Garchomp  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Garchomp @ Lum Berry  
Ability: Sand Veil  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
IVs: 25 Def / 9 SpA / 26 SpD  
- Dragon Claw  
- Earthquake  
- Substitute  
- Protect  

 

A reasonably standard set, apart from Substitute and Lum Berry. This allows Garchomp to somewhat avoid getting intimidated or burned after an attack boost, although it comes with the added downside of disabling the effect of Swagger. Quite an interesting tech, although I wonder if it could be replaced with something less passive, such as Rock Slide. Lum Berry can also be used to deal with the likes of Rotom-Wash if the option to use Swagger is unavailable. The IVs, as with all team members, are simply reflective of what I currently possess in-game.

 

Metagross  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Metagross @ Lum Berry  
Ability: Clear Body  
Level: 50  
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
IVs: 26 HP / 26 Def / 9 SpA / 27 SpD  
- Meteor Mash  
- Zen Headbutt  
- Earthquake / Bullet Punch 
- Protect  

 

After spending some time playing VGC Series 7 (which to be honest, I felt quite disappointed with - hence the return to PokeMMO!), I've found Metagross+Tornadus to be quite a popular combo. The basic premise, as I'm sure you're aware, is that Tornadus uses brutal swing to proc Metagross' Weakness Policy, raising its attack by 2 stages (notice any similarities?), as well as boosting Metagross' mediocre speed with Prankster Tailwind+Taunt. The same principle applies here. Meteor Mash adds to this, raising Metagross' already fantastic attack even further 20% of the time. The speed investment means that Metagross can outspeed 0 Spe Rotom-W in order to avoid getting burned by Will-O-Wisp.

 

Crobat  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Crobat @ Flying Gem  
Ability: Inner Focus  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
IVs: 27 HP / 25 Def / 19 SpA / 27 SpD  
- Acrobatics  
- Tailwind  
- Taunt  
- Swagger  

 

The crux of the team. Crobat has seen a new lease of life in the update, with both Inner Focus effectively shutting down Hitmontop (blocking intimidate and fake out), as well as the new speed control mechanics allowing Tailwind's speed boost to apply immediately. I'm a little at odds with Flying Gem+Acrobatics however, as although it provides a brilliant source of offense against the various fighting and grass types which threaten the team, Crobat doesn't have the best defensive capabilities. Would, say, Focus Sash+Brave Bird provide a better means of survivability? Or would it sacrifice too much offensive potential? For example, with Brave Bird, Crobat can only OHKO 252 HP Hariyama 75% of the time, which is not great, but it may allow Crobat to taunt the trick room user Hariyama would be supporting with relative impunity if, say, a Reuniclus were to use Psychic instead of Trick Room expecting a Taunt to come out, and then after Flame Orb recoil, Hariyama would be an easy KO, etc etc - you get the gist. 

 

Rotom  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry  
Ability: Levitate  
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 4 SpA / 140 SpD / 20 Spe  
Calm Nature  
IVs: 14 Atk  
- Thunderbolt  
- Hydro Pump  
- Will-O-Wisp  
- Ally Switch  

 

Rotom-Wash remains the annoying little washing machine it always has been. Resisting some of the most common moves thrown at Garchomp and Metagross, it's a great support Pokemon, and with Will-O-Wisp and Ally Switch can provide some excellent damage-reducing options, especially under Tailwind. The EVs, as far as I can remember, allow Rotom to survive a Life Orb Ludicolo's Energy Ball, whilst making Salamence's Dragon Claw, Tyranitar's Crunch, as well as some other important physical moves into a 3HKO, without taking Sitrus Berry into account - with the remaining EVs dumped in speed to creep other Rotom formes. One of the most common obstacles to a self-swagger combo is redirection, so having a strong Electric type Pokemon on the team to hit Togekiss and Blastoise for Super Effective damage is quite useful. 

 

Tyranitar  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Tyranitar @ Choice Band  
Ability: Sand Stream  
Level: 50  
EVs: 240 HP / 200 Atk / 40 Def / 30 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 12 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe  
- Rock Slide  
- Crunch  
- Superpower  
- Fire Punch / Earthquake / Ice Punch 

 

Banded Tyranitar. Need I say much more? The main reason I've opted to run a banded set is that most dark-weak Trick Room users can survive a Crunch or two, so Choice Band pushes the goal post just that little bit further. Garchomp is supremely weak to Rain teams, so Tyranitar is here to patch up that weakness a little, although it has to be very careful not to be hit by too many super effective water moves. I can't remember exactly what the EV spread does, it's been a while since I came up with it, but it provides a decent amount of bulk whilst underspeeding 0 Spe Pelipper by one point outside of Tailwind in order to win the weather war, whilst speed creeping other Tyranitars. The last move I'm a little stuck on, as Salamence already provides fire coverage, so any help here would be much appreciated. 

 

Salamence  sprite from Black 2 & White 2 & Black & White

 

Salamence @ Life Orb  
Ability: Intimidate  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  

IVs: 13 Atk
- Draco Meteor  
- Air Slash  
- Heat Wave  
- Tailwind  

 

FINALLY, Salamence gets some decent special flying type attacks! Air Slash and Hurricane are excellent options, but I've chosen Air Slash here for spammability, as well as that juicy 30% flinch chance, stacking with Rock Slide and Zen Headbutt - and even the occasional cheeky Swagger... Salamence is great as a late-game option, with tailwind to bolster the team's speed control options, a great ability in Intimidate to put a stop to any significant physical threats, and of course, Life Orb Draco Meteor to nuke anything that doesn't resist it. It also has beautiful type synergy with Metagross, resisting the other's weaknesses perfectly, whilst simultaneously being Hoenn's two pseudo-legendaries. Coincidence? I think not...

 

Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed reading, and I'm really looking forward to your feedback :))

 

Importable

 

Spoiler

Garchomp @ Lum Berry  
Ability: Sand Veil  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
IVs: 25 Def / 9 SpA / 26 SpD  
- Dragon Claw  
- Earthquake  
- Substitute  
- Protect  

 

Metagross @ Lum Berry  
Ability: Clear Body  
Level: 50  
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
IVs: 26 HP / 26 Def / 9 SpA / 27 SpD  
- Meteor Mash  
- Zen Headbutt  
- Earthquake  
- Protect  

 

Crobat @ Flying Gem  
Ability: Inner Focus  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
IVs: 27 HP / 25 Def / 19 SpA / 27 SpD  
- Acrobatics  
- Tailwind  
- Taunt  
- Swagger  

 

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry  
Ability: Levitate  
Level: 50  
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 4 SpA / 140 SpD / 20 Spe  
Calm Nature  
IVs: 14 Atk  
- Thunderbolt  
- Hydro Pump  
- Will-O-Wisp  
- Ally Switch  

 

Tyranitar @ Choice Band  
Ability: Sand Stream  
Level: 50  
EVs: 240 HP / 200 Atk / 40 Def / 30 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Atk / 30 Def / 12 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe  
- Rock Slide  
- Crunch  
- Superpower  
- Fire Punch  

 

Salamence @ Life Orb  
Ability: Intimidate  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  

IVs: 13 Atk
- Draco Meteor  
- Air Slash  
- Heat Wave  
- Tailwind  

 

Edited by Rakhmaninov
Link to post

At a glance it looks like a standard Tailwind team. But there are a lot of interesting choices. I think you should still opt for Fire Punch on Ttar, or maybe Hammer Arm on Meta to hit stuff like Bronzong and Ferrothorn. Not many people will allow Salamence to hit those steel types. Hammer Arm also improves your matchup against TR somewhat as you can start lowering your speed. 

Link to post
5 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

At a glance it looks like a standard Tailwind team. But there are a lot of interesting choices. I think you should still opt for Fire Punch on Ttar, or maybe Hammer Arm on Meta to hit stuff like Bronzong and Ferrothorn. Not many people will allow Salamence to hit those steel types. Hammer Arm also improves your matchup against TR somewhat as you can start lowering your speed. 

Ah you're right, Mental Herb Bronzong would be a pretty big threat to the team, I'll have a think, thanks!! :)

Link to post
5 minutes ago, MegaBladers said:

I personally think it is a more than interesting team.

What do you think of putting Electroweb on rotom? for extra speed control when you can't set Tailwind with crobat

Thank you very much! I'll consider electroweb, that's quite a nice tech especially against togekiss/blastoise+kingdra :)

Link to post

You only have two protects in your entire team.

 

I like the pokemon's synergies but I dont agree on some movesets. not the biggest fan of orbed mence because it gets chipped down really fast in combination with sand. It also misses a couple important KOs if it is not running a gem. If you really want to get those 0hkos on tr weak darktypes I would run dark gem instead of band, but even then, I really like running berries (sitrus/chople) on my ttars. If you plan on using it on tailwind I would probably want more speed on it.

 

Besides that, this is a bit of a more personal take but I dont love garchomp in our current meta (I think it has its place but its not that splasheable of a mon anymore) specially when paired with salamence for the double 4x weakness to ice. with your metagross not being that bulky and lacking recovery abomasnow could very realistically find its way to a sweep vs your team.

 

Love the idea of swagger bat + lum met though. I might toy around with it myself!

Edited by iJulian
Link to post
7 minutes ago, iJulian said:

You only have two protects in your entire team.

 

I like the pokemon's synergies but I dont agree on some movesets. not the biggest fan of orbed mence because it gets chipped down really fast in combination with sand. It also misses a couple important KOs if it is not running a gem. If you really want to get those 0hkos on tr weak darktypes I would run dark gem instead of band, but even then, I really like running berries (sitrus/chople) on my ttars. If you plan on using it on tailwind I would probably want more speed on it.

 

Besides that, this is a bit of a more personal take but I dont love garchomp in our current meta (I think it has its place but its not that splasheable of a mon anymore) specially when paired with salamence for the double 4x weakness to ice. with your metagross not being that bulky and lacking recovery abomasnow could very realistically find its way to a sweep vs your team.

 

Love the idea of swagger bat + lum met though. I might toy around with it myself!

Thank you mate, you've pointed out some key weaknesses. And I'm glad you like the lum+swagger! I think Togekiss is also a nice mon to run it with too if crobat doesn't quite fit the team composition, as it can outspeed metagross by one point with 60 EVs to ensure that swagger has an immediate effect, as well as providing redirection support+bulk :)

Link to post
6 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Thank you mate, you've pointed out some key weaknesses. And I'm glad you like the lum+swagger! I think Togekiss is also a nice mon to run it with too if crobat doesn't quite fit the team composition, as it can outspeed metagross by one point with 60 EVs to ensure that swagger has an immediate effect, as well as providing redirection support+bulk :)

Ye, I had used lum + swagger in the past with cofag but that was mostly relegated to tr teams. Now we have even more viable recievers thanks to the new intimidate immunities. Mamoswine for instance could be really scary at +2 and in tailwind!, im excited to build around this idea.

Edited by iJulian
Link to post
1 minute ago, iJulian said:

Ye, I had used lum + swagger in the past with cofag but that was mostly relegated to tr teams. Now we have even more viable recievers thanks to the new intimidate immunities. Mamoswine for instance, im excited to build around this idea in tailwind.

Oooo Mamoswine sounds like it could put in a lot of work - do you think Mamoswine>Garchomp might have a place on this team? Mamoswine+Crobat is kinda reminiscent of Arash Omati's VGC 2013 Worlds team...

Link to post
3 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Oooo Mamoswine sounds like it could put in a lot of work - do you think Mamoswine>Garchomp might have a place on this team? Mamoswine+Crobat is kinda reminiscent of Arash Omati's VGC 2013 Worlds team...

Yes, mamoswine over chomp in your team sounds great actually! with 3 intimidate inmunities, 2 of which are capable of recieveing swaggers boost. offensive ttar, tailwind speed control and potentially dragon gem mence for the nuke I can see your team being able to overwhelm opposing builds quite nicely.

Link to post
Just now, iJulian said:

Yes, mamoswine over chomp in your team sounds great actually! with 3 intimidate inmunities, 2 of which are capable of recieveing swaggers boost. offensive ttar, tailwind speed control and potentially dragon gem mence for the nuke I can see your team being able to overwhelm opposing builds quite nicely.

How would that affect the Abomasnow matchup? Would Hitmontop be viable option over Salamence for wide guard/fighting STAB or would that risk sacrificing too much offensive presence?

Link to post
5 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said:

How would that affect the Abomasnow matchup? Would Hitmontop be viable option over Salamence for wide guard/fighting STAB or would that risk sacrificing too much offensive presence?

It makes the matchup much more playeable. it can take one blizzard and hit back hard which can be clutch in offensive matchups. You can also opt to run a bit of bulk to have a better chance of living giga drain and some other strong hits since you are forgoing focus sash. A spread of 92 hp / 236 atk / 180 spe with an adamant nature allows you to outspeed up to neutral base 70s and have an 88% chance of surviving abomasnow's orbed giga drain. It also allows you to lead better vs trick room teams that like leading with nuke mence. Finally, a better secondary stab, intimidate inmunity and priority give mamoswine an edge in punching bigger holes on the opposing team as they are trying to set abomasnows trick room up or after you stall it out.

 

Link to post
2 minutes ago, iJulian said:

It makes the matchup much more playeable. it can take one blizzard and hit back hard which can be clutch in offensive matchups. You can also opt to run a bit of bulk to have a better chance of living giga drain and some other strong hits since you are forgoing focus sash. A spread of 92 hp / 236 atk / 180 spe with an adamant nature allows you to outspeed up to neutral base 70s and have an 88% chance of surviving abomasnow's orbed giga drain. It also allows you to lead better vs trick room teams that like leading with nuke mence. Finally, a better secondary stab, intimidate inmunity and priority give mamoswine an edge in punching bigger holes on the opposing team as they are trying to set abomasnows trick room up or after you stall it out.

 

Beautiful! Thanks so much, I really appreciate it :)

Link to post

I agree that the lack of Protects in that team is rather problematic. Not only is it a great positioning move but also specifically helps to buy turns against opposing Trick Room teams. I think that team can be rather difficult to play against Trick Room teams. A simple Taunt usually isn't enough to keep Trick Room from happening over the course of a long Doubles game. I think it's a great toolbox against everything else, but I might improve the TR matchup a little bit. So at the very least I'd add Protects to everything that could carry it in their moveset. (So everything except Crobat, really). It's a solid 6 in my opinion but if I'd replace anything it would probably be an anti-Trick Room mon, like adding Amoonguss or even your own Reuniclus with Shadow Ball/Signal Beam to pressurize TR cores (which usually is Reuniclus + Fighting-type).

 

Air Slash on Mence isn't really useful imo, also band Tyranitar to me doesn't achieve a lot. So I'd start from adding Protects there.

Link to post
36 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I agree that the lack of Protects in that team is rather problematic. Not only is it a great positioning move but also specifically helps to buy turns against opposing Trick Room teams. I think that team can be rather difficult to play against Trick Room teams. A simple Taunt usually isn't enough to keep Trick Room from happening over the course of a long Doubles game. I think it's a great toolbox against everything else, but I might improve the TR matchup a little bit. So at the very least I'd add Protects to everything that could carry it in their moveset. (So everything except Crobat, really). It's a solid 6 in my opinion but if I'd replace anything it would probably be an anti-Trick Room mon, like adding Amoonguss or even your own Reuniclus with Shadow Ball/Signal Beam to pressurize TR cores (which usually is Reuniclus + Fighting-type).

 

Air Slash on Mence isn't really useful imo, also band Tyranitar to me doesn't achieve a lot. So I'd start from adding Protects there.

Thank you mate, lots to consider here! You mentioned an anti TR mon - which slot do you envision swapping out for this? 

Link to post
2 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Thank you mate, lots to consider here! You mentioned an anti TR mon - which slot do you envision swapping out for this? 

Well, let me put it this way:

Crobat - needed for Tailwind (the very idea of this team)

Tyranitar - needed for weather (to counter opposing weather strategies)
Metagross - extremely strong mon overall, also additional check to standard TR cores

Salamence - Provides Intimidate to the team, which can be a saving force in many positions. Mence is a great mon in general, Draco Meteor is amazing lead to set up positioning.

Rotom - Will-o-Wisp is very strong to win any kinds of mirror matches or especially sand teams.

 

To me, Garchomp is the most replaceable. It's not really improving any specific matchup in Doubles. It's a strong Pokemon on its own, kinda has synergies with Tyranitar thanks to Sand Veil. However, it makes your team triple weak to Ice so also in that sense I don't think it's that great or that needed compared to rest of the team.

Link to post
9 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

Well, let me put it this way:

Crobat - needed for Tailwind (the very idea of this team)

Tyranitar - needed for weather (to counter opposing weather strategies)
Metagross - extremely strong mon overall, also additional check to standard TR cores

Salamence - Provides Intimidate to the team, which can be a saving force in many positions. Mence is a great mon in general, Draco Meteor is amazing lead to set up positioning.

Rotom - Will-o-Wisp is very strong to win any kinds of mirror matches or especially sand teams.

 

To me, Garchomp is the most replaceable. It's not really improving any specific matchup in Doubles. It's a strong Pokemon on its own, kinda has synergies with Tyranitar thanks to Sand Veil. However, it makes your team triple weak to Ice so also in that sense I don't think it's that great or that needed compared to rest of the team.

As I suspected. However, I'm already considering having Oblivious Mamoswine over Garchomp thanks to @iJulian's rate, so it's a bit of a toss-up. Any ideas here? Having Mamoswine as an extra answer to Togekiss leads is also a very attractive prospect...  

Link to post
9 minutes ago, Rakhmaninov said:

As I suspected. However, I'm already considering having Oblivious Mamoswine over Garchomp thanks to @iJulian's rate, so it's a bit of a toss-up. Any ideas here? Having Mamoswine as an extra answer to Togekiss leads is also a very attractive prospect...  

Mamoswine is very interchangeable with Garchomp. I feel like they share a lot of the same positive and negative traits. Main trade-off is a nice priority move + Intimidate immunity compared to higher speed. 

Link to post
1 minute ago, OrangeManiac said:

Mamoswine is very interchangeable with Garchomp. I feel like they share a lot of the same positive and negative traits. Main trade-off is a nice priority move + Intimidate immunity compared to higher speed. 

Agreed. My main question was if you have any ideas of how to improve the matchup with TR leads if there aren't many swappable slots?

Link to post
1 minute ago, Rakhmaninov said:

Agreed. My main question was if you have any ideas of how to improve the matchup with TR leads if there aren't many swappable slots?

I think your team does okay against common TR leads but a late game Trick Room might become very difficult. That's why I was suggesting a Pokemon that would make your opponent think twice before trying to even set up Trick Room. I think Reuniclus/Amoonguss are the best at this role. Reuniclus I like the most because even though you have a Tailwind team, in lots of matches you could end up finding out that the best way to win the endgame is to set up your own Trick Room.

Link to post
13 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

I think your team does okay against common TR leads but a late game Trick Room might become very difficult. That's why I was suggesting a Pokemon that would make your opponent think twice before trying to even set up Trick Room. I think Reuniclus/Amoonguss are the best at this role. Reuniclus I like the most because even though you have a Tailwind team, in lots of matches you could end up finding out that the best way to win the endgame is to set up your own Trick Room.

Ah okay, I'll have a think about alternating between Mamoswine/Amoonguss/Reuniclus and see which I like best :)

Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.