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January-Movement Discussion Thread


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8 hours ago, xMago said:

Electrode no, same problem with screeners team in uu, but in nu u not have so much pokes for count it in NU.

In UU u have krooko, rotom scarf and so much more.

i think electrodes role in nu and uu is the same in both tiers you cant outspeed .taunt or defog wont work you just need some random brickbreak user or prio moves/haze or trick users that  works great vs screens ,scarf rotom you also have in nu , you just need to restrict youre teambuild cuz this mon is broken 

Edited by Quinn010
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4 hours ago, pachima said:

Porygon isnt a new problem. 

lmao,

nothing litterly nothing comes in into porygon.

even when ppl who use lileep , (little they know icebeam destroy lileep hard and they are forced to toxic)

heatproof bronzor, ( nice in meta with onix also getting spammed i doubt ppl take the risk to use heatproof

 

idk how mienfoo gets banned when its easily getting walled by mons like trubbish, grimer etc

meanwhile porygon sweeps the entire tier and nothing can stop him

 

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29 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

heatproof bronzor, ( nice in meta with onix also getting spammed i doubt ppl take the risk to use heatproof

I mean, cranidos is already a thing and so is smack down onix, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Lileep can answer pory more or less can't it, and well they only have 4mss still, so can't carry coverage for everything

Edited by razimove
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6 minutes ago, razimove said:

I mean, cranidos is already a thing and so is smack down onix, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Lileep can answer pory more or less can't it, and well they only have 4mss still, so can't carry coverage for everything

problem is with scarf cranidos, u are stuck with 1 move and have to 50/50 every turn

u can safely go to ferroseed, vullaby, onix and whatever u have in ur team

 

lifeorb crani dies way to quick especially if u keep mispredicting and get recoil for nothing + lifeorb

 

smackdown onix have to waste a turn meanwhile the bronzor can strock (remove ur sturdy for the next turn) or toxic u 

 

And what u said about porygon having only 4mss that is true but in the time u see all the moves u already have alot of fainted mons to actually counter it

 

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18 hours ago, BurntZebra said:

Mienfoo is important glue for LC and has caused people to shift away from playing LC.

What ? Do we play the same game ?

 

5 hours ago, pachima said:

Porygon isnt a new problem. Mienfoo couldn't switch at all into the offensive version, and couldnt even revenge kill agility versions of it as well. If porygon is considered broken now, it should be considered broken in the past and Mienfoo has nothing to do with it, which is interesting cause offensive porygon had little usage in that same past.

At least Mienfoo prevented Porygon leads that doesn't forgive any non-threathening lead you can have. Especially since there aren't that many mons with more sp def than def, scary wise. So (almost) every switches at +1 are fucked. And Mienfoo usually had more sp def than def too. It was also a better revenge killer than Timburr. Imo saying Mienfoo ban didn't affect Porygon strenght is wrong. 

 

I think the tier is more fun to play without Mienfoo. I don't think it was really unhealthy with him. I just enjoy more to play cos people try out different things. Since fun is a subjective argument, welp. There were many arguments behind his ban though, and we will never really know about majority, so it's not really a reason aswell to get him back for that. But I do hear other legits reasons to bring it back. 

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6 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

What ? Do we play the same game ?

 

At least Mienfoo prevented Porygon leads that doesn't forgive any non-threathening lead you can have. Especially since there aren't that many mons with more sp def than def, scary wise. So (almost) every switches at +1 are fucked. And Mienfoo usually had more sp def than def too. It was also a better revenge killer than Timburr. Imo saying Mienfoo ban didn't affect Porygon strenght is wrong. 

 

I think the tier is more fun to play without Mienfoo. I don't think it was really unhealthy with him. I just enjoy more to play cos people try out different things. Since fun is a subjective argument, welp. There were many arguments behind his ban though, and we will never really know about majority, so it's not really a reason aswell to get him back for that. But I do hear other legits reasons to bring it back. 

The tier is so much a mess without mienfoo. 
You can test a lot of thing with mienfoo in the tier, saying you can't need you to say which mon you can't bring with mienfoo in the tier.
But I do agree that fun is sujective also. 

Edited by Stelian
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10 minutes ago, Poufilou said:

At least Mienfoo prevented Porygon leads that doesn't forgive any non-threathening lead you can have. Especially since there aren't that many mons with more sp def than def, scary wise. So (almost) every switches at +1 are fucked. And Mienfoo usually had more sp def than def too. It was also a better revenge killer than Timburr. Imo saying Mienfoo ban didn't affect Porygon strenght is wrong. 

On the contrary, a lot of stuff has the same def and spdef, and since LC allows for extra investment on defensive stats, you can most of the time trigger a physical boost on an enemy's download.

About Porygon having no switches:
1- Porygon getting +1 spatk isnt that easy, considering what I said above, unless ppl dont know how to ev.
2- If Porygon has no switches now at +1, then it also had no switches prior to mienfoo ban, simply because mienfoo doesn't switch at all. So it doesn't make sense to me that suddenly Porygon is broken by having no switches.

Regarding Mienfoo:
- Mienfoo was banned by unhealthy purposes, and its ban aimed to see how it affected the tier. However, in 2 months we had a grand total of 398 LC played games, which is, imo, far from enough for a tier to adapt. If we want to see how Mienfoo affects the tier properly we should wait longer. (As a comparison, LC had, in 2 months 5,15% of the matches played in NU in a single month. Yes- we don't have LC matchmaking, which heavily affects these numbers, but that doesn't mean we should consider the testbanning done, and conclude it's not banworthy or not unhealthily, because we simply can not see how much it affected properly)

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Porygon is too op for our current meta, bronzor heatproof still fears +1 discharge, while Munchlax is forced to recycle till it gets crit'd / status'd. Timid eviolite Download Pory can come onto 85% HP Timbur like a champ, and spam Psychic/ Tri atk, while Timburr must either mach punch and sac itself, or switch to something else that will probably get destroyed by +1 pory.

And No, unbanning the most centralizing poke ( Mienfoo ) won't do the meta any good, unless it is restricted from Regenerator.

Certainly Trubbish walls Timburr, but in the event of Uturn, Mienfoo heals hp while gaining momentum and bringing in something that can deal with Trubbish, Mankey can uturn but it doesn't heal from hazards next turn while switching out. Mienfoo on the other hand has the speed, the bulk, can heal by switching out, can get momentum with uturn, can setup with SD or Bulk up, can run knock off, etc.

Maybe Mienfoo will be less annoying the day we have hidden abilities.

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the excuse for banning Foo from LC is "maybe we'll see something new in the level" and "You have to build something fixed to counter Foo" however when you build in any level you always have to have something to counter the modes used games. Without going any further, currently in LC you have to have ways to stop recycle users, I think that giving Mienfoo a new chance would be good, Porygon download is very driven by this, we also remember that Foo was banned at the same time as sand trap, and all LC players know how Foo benefited from that ability to get rid of checks and counters like Trubbish or Grimer, for example.

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Machamp is very annoying to deal with but is far from banworthy.

While Dugtrio and Electrode are sort of bad in UU, I could definitely see them being a problem in NU.

Most notably because the Dugtrio targets in UU were very limited (Lanturn, Empoleon, Heracross, Metagross & Bisharp with def invest, some Arcanines) when it has much more potential in NU metagame.

About Electrode I think the problem is the lack of sheer power to kill and prevent the setting of both screen UU has in Mamo/Medicham (or am I under rating the NU grounds ?)

 

TLDR Wouldn't be shocked if TC banned Electrode and Dugtrio from NU. Rest is fine

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1 hour ago, GasaiYunoSan said:

Spiritomb would be forced to use Psychic only for machamp (Or other fighting Mon), but if a Calm Mind or Foul Play Set, rest, wow and Sucker Punch or Sleep Talk Spiritomb not have opportunity vs Machamp

What set of Machamp is problematic?

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And I think lowering Gligar to NU would be good to balance the level a bit, this would also force Machamp Guts to bring Ice Punch and run out of Thunder Punch for Slowking or others.

It will also be useful against the Dark Mons of NU.

Edited by GasaiYunoSan
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I just laugh at yall think Machamp is a problem. Yall said the same thing last time and it didn't even do anything special when it dropped the first time . What makes you think it will be different this time?  

Not to mention, its usage wasn't even that much. 

 

 

Edited by xStarr
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7 minutes ago, xStarr said:

I just laugh at yall think Machamp is a problem. Yall said the same thing last time and it didn't even do anything special when it dropped the first time . What makes you think it will be different this time?  

Not to mention, its usage wasn't even that much. 

 

 

I agree with him

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