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Lets talk about matchmaking


Parke

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9 minutes ago, pachima said:

we would have a more balanced flux of players in each tier cause every tier has similar rewards.

That's the exact opposite of the reason. 90% of people are introduced to OU as their first tier, and because rewards are similar for every tier, they have no reason to venture out & try anything new. 

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13 minutes ago, Paul said:

That's the exact opposite of the reason. 90% of people are introduced to OU as their first tier, and because rewards are similar for every tier, they have no reason to venture out & try anything new. 

Yes, 100% agree, now we are getting somewhere. But here is the thing. (Note I said "we would", meaning that its something that isnt happening, because of what I stated earlier)

If they boost every reward in every tier, like plebs above are suggesting, then the same happens, full stop.

If devs simply boost lower tiers rewards, then they would have to deal, not with 50 ppl that play lower tiers, but with 4000 that play OU and consider that boost unfair to them. That's something they shouldnt' do and won't do, for obvious purposes.

Different timewindows is still the only fair way to fix this issue at some extent.

 

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26 minutes ago, pachima said:

Yes, 100% agree, now we are getting somewhere. But here is the thing. (Note I said "we would", meaning that its something that isnt happening, because of what I stated earlier)

If they boost every reward in every tier, like plebs above are suggesting, then the same happens, full stop.

If devs simply boost lower tiers rewards, then they would have to deal, not with 50 ppl that play lower tiers, but with 4000 that play OU and consider that boost unfair to them. That's something they shouldnt' do and won't do, for obvious purposes.

Different timewindows is still the only fair way to fix this issue at some extent.

 

Calling people who disagree with you plebs, and repeatedly calling the issue "simple" doesn't automatically make your opinion correct, pachima. You're speaking with a lot of arrogance and certainty so I'd like to see where you're getting your "definitive" solutions from. 

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20 minutes ago, Zymogen said:

Calling people who disagree with you plebs, and repeatedly calling the issue "simple" doesn't automatically make your opinion correct, pachima. You're speaking with a lot of arrogance and certainty so I'd like to see where you're getting your "definitive" solutions from. 

Feel free to call me arrogant, if you think that helps you nonarguments.

The issue is simple, people are just overcomplicating it for no reason. People don't pick lower tiers cause they can pick OU in the same timeframe, its as simple as that. 

How do you fix that? Create different timewindows for OU and lower tiers. See? Also simple. is it good? No. Is it simple? Yes. Does it make sense? Yes.

All I see is people using this thread as an excuse to boost rewards, and as a result we derailed to the point of, for the 500th time, claiming tours have bad rewards. Why? Because people don't care about lower tiers, they care about rewards more than that, and this isn't the thread for that. 

If you still cannot understand, let me rephrase it simply, what some of ppl's arguments in here hare.

- All tiers have similar rewards, but people pick OU nevertheless.

But wait, if we boost all rewards in all tiers, then we would have (magically):

- All tiers have similar rewards, but fear not cause people would also pick other tiers nevertheless.

Does it fix the issue? No, unless you only boost lower tiers, which they cant do as stated above. Is it good? Yes, it is. Does it make sense? No.

Do I like it? No. Would I want better rewards? Yes, but its pointless to the thread in question so please for the love of God stop claiming it in here. If you want better rewards, go create yet another thread. 

 

Edited by pachima
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Having limited time windows to play in other tiers will not fix anything. I came back to this game with nothing. Now I'm in like 4 months later and I have almost 30 OU ready comps to my name. Many of these are 4x25 1x31 non PP maxed mons. 

 

And I'm a person who is fortunate enough to have a lot of old connections that don't mind making me some stuff (for free) and letting me borrow multiple mons for weeks. Seriously I've been using Orange his C team for months in Doubles. I also have amazing teammates that help me out with mons a lot. And even I, with all of those external resources. Have to focus all my energy on having multiple workable OU comps. I literally don't have the resources to get into other tiers. 

 

THAT is the 'simple problem' and why nothing will matter, except if rewards get better and comp players can actually start experimenting more, because they have more resources. I'm a guy with so many people helping me out and I already have trouble keeping up with one tier, which is the most stable one of all. How do you expect newer players to get into lower tiers if I'm already struggling lol

 

Edit: granted i do keep throwing millions into tournies, so i couldve had a lot more comps woopsie

Edited by ThinkNicer
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8 minutes ago, pachima said:

How do you fix that? Create different timewindows for OU and lower tiers. See? Also simple.

If I'm someone who only plays OU, how does this incentivize me to play other tiers? We have already established you can earn more money playing PvE, so why wouldn't I use this time to do my gym runs & berry farm so I can make more OU teams? This doesn't promote other tiers or make them any more appealing to OU players. 

 

We need to find unique ways to make these tiers stand out & reward players for investing millions & learning a completely new tier. As an OU player there is literally no reason to try anything else.

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30 minutes ago, pachima said:

As I said and will repeat, no matter if people believe in it or not, while we have OU + UU/NU MM ranked at the same time, the vast majority of players will queue to OU, period. 

Rewards are irrelevant, cause if they were not, we wouldn't have active lower tiers in the beginning in the first place, and we would have a more balanced flux of players in each tier cause every tier has similar rewards. 

So, the only surefire way to fix the low flux in lower tiers is creating timewindows separately, for OU and lower tiers, simple as that.

Nobody ever argued about OU always having the majority of the playerbase backing it up with all tiers being up at the same time and that isnt the issue to begin with. 

 

If there was an insane reward for finishing the 10k mark in UU/NU naturally people would get into these tiers, or at least have the interest getting into those, so prizes arent completely irrelevant. In fact how equally bad they are is a problem - you cant give people hats every single season. Similar rewards further nurtures keeping player distribution the way it is. An imbalance of reward value could be a way to get people curious.

 

I am also gonna repeat this and maybe im overlooking an obvious flaw; but the proper way to sell B and C isnt to take A out of your sortiment, but to make B and C appealing to people, because ideally you want people to consume A, B and C, because of all these demand multiple people consuming them in order to be attractive. The solution to this is figuring out why people dont buy B and C and taking proper steps to make them attractive enough for a wide mass of players to want to consume/buy them - all of them; at any time, because availability makes a good product.

 

 

 

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On 12/7/2020 at 1:27 PM, Zymogen said:

The prize boost could be centralised around UU and NU, but it doesn't have to be exclusive to them - it could be a system that rotates and promotes 2 of the 4 tiers per week, but each week would always include at least one of either UU or NU. 

 

I keep finding myself referring back to it, but the Call to Arms system [...]

 

36 minutes ago, pachima said:

How do you fix that? Create different timewindows for OU and lower tiers.

Me: "We could create a system of alternating time windows within which 2 of the 4 tiers have a prize buff per week"

Pachima: "No, that's a bad idea. How about this: why don't we do the exact same thing, but without the prize buff?"

 

Both of our arguments are the same, except yours omits an aspect that is desired by several players.

Edited by Zymogen
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This MM system is really good in my opinion, and we saw lower tiers receiving a lot more love during season 1. But when you have squirrel headbands as the grand prize of investing a few million on teams & hours of playing every day, it completely ruins a good system. 

 

I built 4 different UU teams a few months ago, with the intention of learning the tier & making it my main. Then I see Season 1's reward is a Sylveon hat, and season 2 is a copy/paste of the Pig Hood but without the ears. I sold those teams and instead bred more rain teams for OU, and put the rest of the money into the Halloween event. 

 

You cannot tell me the way to solve this is not directly tied to the fact that GymRunner556 is making more money per hour than someone who invests all of their time/money into a competitive game. 

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12 minutes ago, YourAngst said:

Yo so like why we don t think about makeing uu and nu more appealing by just buffing and/or nerfing some of the mons base stats?Again they did the same to dugtrio and also give us HA that will also make nu and uu more nice to play.

lol , this is not a game where you can buff or nerf a pokemon like a OP champ in league of legend . If a pokemon is too strong for a tier he will go to the tier above and same for a weak pokemon he will go in the tier below.

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15 minutes ago, YourAngst said:

Yo so like why we don t think about makeing uu and nu more appealing by just buffing and/or nerfing some of the mons base stats?Again they did the same to dugtrio and also give us HA that will also make nu and uu more nice to play.

ye my comp magikarp cant sweep give it 900 total base stats 

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Was just thinking about this, but what if there's an automated system that if a tier has less than X players queue'ing over a certain period of time, lets say 20-30 minutes, they increase the rewards? This way there's more incentives for people to join lower tiers and try to farm with this system.

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3 hours ago, razimove said:

Was just thinking about this, but what if there's an automated system that if a tier has less than X players queue'ing over a certain period of time, lets say 20-30 minutes, they increase the rewards? This way there's more incentives for people to join lower tiers and try to farm with this system.

Something like this was what I was originally thinking. But I dunno how it'd work because it may encourage people to just not queue for X amount of time. So there'd have to be a way for the system to detect if people are queueing or not I guess. Idk

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