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Lets talk about matchmaking


Parke

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3 minutes ago, AwaXGoku said:

i dont think you should blame someone because he is playing a lot the game he likes. It has nothing to do in a topic like that

I dont see how its irrelevant to say you gotta compete with someone who plays 1k games in 2 months, which you obviously cant, when you have a life after someone says its not very attractive to grind hundreds of games to compete for #1.

 

Spoiler

I didnt blame anybody for playing ranked tho. Namedrop wasnt necessary, but If someone drops out of psl, because he has no time to play, but then grinds 1000+ rankeds in such a short period of time, i dont see a reason to not call of em out whenever i feel like it. 

 

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33 minutes ago, NOREButler said:

  

I dont see how its irrelevant to say you gotta compete with someone who plays 1k games in 2 months, which you obviously cant, when you have a life after someone says its not very attractive to grind hundreds of games to compete for #1.

 

It's a kind of investment, while you decide to invest in your life to get a job and/or make fun with friend, he decided to fully invest his time in this game (and got rewarded if his goal was to be in top of the ladder). 

How can you make difference between 2 differents player in the same ladder while they dont face the same opponent ? imo that's normal that the guy with 1000w/750l is better ranked than a player with 100w/75l, i hope you understand that point ! 

 

Spoiler

lmao yeah i heard that but that's not the only guy who played 1000+ game xD

 

Edited by AwaXGoku
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4 hours ago, Zymogen said:

I keep finding myself referring back to it, but the Call to Arms system in World of Warcraft dungeon finders is a great example of this kind of thing. Historically you could easily wait 30min for a tank, but because the Call to Arms offers bonus loot to people who queue as a tank within a certain timeframe, the average wait time (anecdotally) is at least 50% less. This system isn't directly applicable because it dynamically assesses and incentivises whichever role is the least represented at any given time, but I definitely think the concept is transferrable.

Honestly completely agree with this take. In WoW this system has made a drastic difference and is unanimously a good change and I haven't ever seen a single person complain about it. Obviously this isn't quite a 1 to 1 with mmo but it is pretty close and I can't think of a single reason for someone to want to push back on this suggestion other than trying to be a contrarian.

 

The issue with mm in lower tiers is that it seems to be a circular problem. If a tier loses traction towards the end of a season or for a different reason then with less people queuing it becomes more stale because you keep playing the sane players and longer queue times. This then makes people become even less likely to put their limited time and resources into these lower tiers and thus making the problem even worse and just causes everyone to default back to OU for faster queue times to get the same rewards in a fraction the time. 

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4 hours ago, Paul said:

Maybe this is a hot take, but I'm not going to spend millions building teams & hours grinding lower tiers for a squirrel headband. This is something I'd expect to see in a PokeMart for $2500, not a 'reward' for grinding the ladder.

 tJFKXJE.png

 

Until we stop seeing things like this, lower tiers will never have a chance to succeed. 

Agreed and the fact that the item is untradeable makes the grind even more worthless.

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Yo so i don t play neither uu or nu but trust me i can feel your pain not to be abel to play a specific tier or your favorite tier

Most of you say is the community fault for just not wanting to play those tiers but is it tho? In my opinnion(yes i know is very dangerous to have one those days) we need more fun mons to play for nu and uu don t get me wrong i don t say the mons that are in uu or nu are bad (or at least 98% of them are not)

I could see myself playing some uu has a lot of mons that i like and enjoy like mamoswine,kroko,rotom-heat,scrafty,hera,weavile and many more so maybe in the future uu will get more players

but nu is another problem and maybe here others will see what i mean so for a bit of back story:

I was about a month ago or two watching an nu tour mostly cause i got to it while it was live the point is some guy had a feraligatr (is true i don t know the evs and the nature it had) so the guy goes for a sd and also had a life orb and he aqa jet to other mon(wich i don t remember i know is very important for my point but you will stel get it) and my bros and gals it dealt zero and i mean 0 dmg like wtf is this? +2 atk and life orb and stab and 0 dmg? That is not what i payd for if you get what im sain

Not to be mean if feraligatr is your favorite mon but affter seeing that i can only say is fukin trash ,idk if fera is meta in nu ritgh now or if its decent but aftter seeing that i can only say the mon is fukin trash and maybe this is why players don t play nu or uu ,maybe they see mons that i like in uu like hera and kroko the smae way i see fera in nu

So one thing devs can do is just buff mons the same way they nerffd dugtrio lowering its atk from 100 to 80.

I am sure they can do the same for mons like fera and ppl will start playing more nu and uu

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1 hour ago, YourAngst said:

Yo so i don t play neither uu or nu but trust me i can feel your pain not to be abel to play a specific tier or your favorite tier

Most of you say is the community fault for just not wanting to play those tiers but is it tho? In my opinnion(yes i know is very dangerous to have one those days) we need more fun mons to play for nu and uu don t get me wrong i don t say the mons that are in uu or nu are bad (or at least 98% of them are not)

I could see myself playing some uu has a lot of mons that i like and enjoy like mamoswine,kroko,rotom-heat,scrafty,hera,weavile and many more so maybe in the future uu will get more players

but nu is another problem and maybe here others will see what i mean so for a bit of back story:

I was about a month ago or two watching an nu tour mostly cause i got to it while it was live the point is some guy had a feraligatr (is true i don t know the evs and the nature it had) so the guy goes for a sd and also had a life orb and he aqa jet to other mon(wich i don t remember i know is very important for my point but you will stel get it) and my bros and gals it dealt zero and i mean 0 dmg like wtf is this? +2 atk and life orb and stab and 0 dmg? That is not what i payd for if you get what im sain

Not to be mean if feraligatr is your favorite mon but affter seeing that i can only say is fukin trash ,idk if fera is meta in nu ritgh now or if its decent but aftter seeing that i can only say the mon is fukin trash and maybe this is why players don t play nu or uu ,maybe they see mons that i like in uu like hera and kroko the smae way i see fera in nu

So one thing devs can do is just buff mons the same way they nerffd dugtrio lowering its atk from 100 to 80.

I am sure they can do the same for mons like fera and ppl will start playing more nu and uu

Basically Feraligatr got hard-checked by another mon - Sceptile, Ferroseed, Golbat and Mantine to name a few can handle a +2 Aqua Jet.

 

But Feraligatr can easily take down many Pokemon and is commonly used as a 'late sweeper' if set up correctly and is most definitely a threat - the same with Drapion, Gallade, Toxicroak and other late game sweepers. You're supposed to ensure that it's used when all its potential threats are no longer in the field.

 

Aqua jet only has a base attack of 40, even with STAB and LO that's hardly enough to 1 KO a mon unless the opposing mon has a very weak defence and / or has already lost significant HP from rocks / spikes set up.

 

Generally all Pokemon can be / are a threat and there's always a way to counter it, (if a Pokemon's stats or ability is too powerful in the general metagame they're considered an uber). They can also be considered 'trash' if it's not been used correctly by the player.

 

People don't purely use Pokemon just because it's their 'favourite', they use it if they think it can be a threat in the respective tier and win them games. They also consider any counter-checks to that Pokemon used, using support Pokemon to help ensure that their 'threat' can be used effectively.

 

Like you said, EVs and nature play a part massively - but you're too vague with your example.

Edited by Imperial
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Developers are afraid to give pvp players any real awards for some reason. End of season you get a lame ass crown for being top 3, and a ticket to a tournament basically anyone can enter because the sign up system is broken. That has to be the shittiest 'reward' for the extreme grind it takes to get to the top spot (at least in OU, and somewhat in Doubles). On top of tHat you get an untradeable hat.... untradeable what??? For WINNING 250 games in a season. For someone with a 70% winrate which is average that is like 350 games. For a HAT you can't do shit with. It has literally no value. People can be like 'oh cool where did you get that from?'. 'Well its an exclusive reward for ranked season 1.' OH IT MUST BE WORTH A LOT. Nope it's utter trash, it has literally 0 value.

 

This system might work for a few seasons, especially OU will stay populated. But people will see through the utter shallowness of the rewards that these ranked seasons offer. The best reward is the freaking pvp box.

 

Seems like I'm being harsh and I don't mean any disrespect to the people that make the hats. They look fun and effort went into them. But they are a total waste of time, theu don't promote any kind of matchmaking. I think they even actively discourage it. Which is kinda sad because I can see devs put time and effort into the system. But then don't be afraid to actually reward people that put time and effort into the system as well.

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29 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

Developers are afraid to give pvp players any real awards for some reason. End of season you get a lame ass crown for being top 3, and a ticket to a tournament basically anyone can enter because the sign up system is broken. That has to be the shittiest 'reward' for the extreme grind it takes to get to the top spot (at least in OU, and somewhat in Doubles). On top of tHat you get an untradeable hat.... untradeable what??? For WINNING 250 games in a season. For someone with a 70% winrate which is average that is like 350 games. For a HAT you can't do shit with. It has literally no value. People can be like 'oh cool where did you get that from?'. 'Well its an exclusive reward for ranked season 1.' OH IT MUST BE WORTH A LOT. Nope it's utter trash, it has literally 0 value.

 

This system might work for a few seasons, especially OU will stay populated. But people will see through the utter shallowness of the rewards that these ranked seasons offer. The best reward is the freaking pvp box.

 

Seems like I'm being harsh and I don't mean any disrespect to the people that make the hats. They look fun and effort went into them. But they are a total waste of time, theu don't promote any kind of matchmaking. I think they even actively discourage it. Which is kinda sad because I can see devs put time and effort into the system. But then don't be afraid to actually reward people that put time and effort into the system as well.

Agreed, if the grind should stay then the rewards should be more valuable - but I remember the excuse about the economy being ruined as a reason not to implement this in the past.

 

Throughout the years we've seen a decline in rewards for PvP players -

  • 2013 - Shiny comps which were tradeable
  • 2015 - Untradeable Shiny comps, but seasonal tournaments with a choice of an epic tradeable comp shiny (e.g. Shiny Tyranitar, Charizard, etc)

Even with regular matchmaking, most of the prizes (except for smaller items and the PvP boxes) are untradeable anyway.

 

What's weird is that at a time when a lot of people have money now (due to older vanities, shiny pokemon, grinding etc), the prizes are generally becoming more and more worthless.

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There's pretty much no reason to play matchmaking, besides the occasional teambuild testing.

 

New tournament system basically turned tournaments into enhanced matchmaking, with less time invest and better rewards. Why would I play 300 blind matches for untradable hat when I can play 6 blind matches for a shiny Comp and RP? 

> "Oh b-but you can place yourself in the rankings and grab a spot in a seasonal for 10k RP"

Yeah well I played like 30 ladder matches to get in one of those and then swept a bunch of dudes that had 500 matches in the same season. So RIP their efforts lol. 

 

There should be actual rewards for placing high on the ladder, it doesn't even have to be money, but imagine like Top3 in OU get a Shiny Tyra/Milotic/Mence. Top 3 NU Shiny Kanga/Houndoom/Poliwrath. Etc. Maybe more people would actually have a reason to bother queueing up. But nah that will never happen cuz we still pretending shiny economy is a thing and that it matters for whatever reason. 

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I get that there's only so much the devs can/want to do to reward us. Giving UU/NU better prizes than OU makes no sense, you're right. Which is why I made a discussion here to see if anyone has any ideas that could work with the system.

 

I'm just worried we're going to go back to how it was before where the only active MM'ing is OU because not enough people play the lower tiers. I guess we wait and see though, sucks but nothing else we can do.

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7 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

New tournament system basically turned tournaments into enhanced matchmaking, with less time invest and better rewards. Why would I play 300 blind matches for untradable hat when I can play 6 blind matches for a shiny Comp and RP? 

Life hit it on the head here to be honest. What's the difference between matchmaking and ATs nowadays? Theyre all blind matches, you have no idea who you are facing(except the finals) and the rewards are better from tournaments. That's it. 

 

As it's always been UU and NU aren't as popular mainly because it is not the first tier a player gets into. And seeing how much of a pain it can be to breed and make a larger amount of pokemon I can see how people can be turned off from playing the lower tiers, especially if they barely have any OU mons. Even more for newer players.

 

I think the issue doesn't lie in the MM system. In fact I think the current MM system is the best we have ever had. Could you get more rewards for placing high on the ladder? Sure I wouldn't have an issue with it although I don't think this will magically make 2000 people play UU and/or NU. I mainly think that the issues lie elsewhere in the game. Since realistically why would you want to play lower tier matchmaking when tournaments exist and you pretty much guaranteed get in, unlike the OUs. 

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10 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

Developers are afraid to give pvp players any real awards for some reason. End of season you get a lame ass crown for being top 3, and a ticket to a tournament basically anyone can enter because the sign up system is broken. That has to be the shittiest 'reward' for the extreme grind it takes to get to the top spot (at least in OU, and somewhat in Doubles). On top of tHat you get an untradeable hat.... untradeable what??? For WINNING 250 games in a season. For someone with a 70% winrate which is average that is like 350 games. For a HAT you can't do shit with. It has literally no value. People can be like 'oh cool where did you get that from?'. 'Well its an exclusive reward for ranked season 1.' OH IT MUST BE WORTH A LOT. Nope it's utter trash, it has literally 0 value.

 

This system might work for a few seasons, especially OU will stay populated. But people will see through the utter shallowness of the rewards that these ranked seasons offer. The best reward is the freaking pvp box.

 

Seems like I'm being harsh and I don't mean any disrespect to the people that make the hats. They look fun and effort went into them. But they are a total waste of time, theu don't promote any kind of matchmaking. I think they even actively discourage it. Which is kinda sad because I can see devs put time and effort into the system. But then don't be afraid to actually reward people that put time and effort into the system as well.

i get youre point and i like when the hats are tradeable. but maybe this wont work people think im rich enough to buy the hat instead of grindig it

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1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

i get youre point and i like when the hats are tradeable. but maybe this wont work people think im rich enough to buy the hat instead of grindig it

I don't mean that they should make the hats tradeable. Bur there needs to be something that is of value for actual competitive players. Because I can hopefully speak for most competitive players here when I say that I don't care about a hat. Hats aren't something I can use in battle, or aren't something that helps me battling. So why the fuck should I ever grind 350 games for a hat, while tournament of 6-7 games have objectively better rewards than the end of season reward???

 

I mean let that sink in. I can win 7 games in a row. And I'd have a better experience and better reward than grinding out 250 wins. That's insane, literally insane.

 

Here from the top of my hat a few ideas that would be way more appealing for comp players as end of season reward or cycle rewards:

- Shiny Gem (untradeable): Makes one Pokemon you have shiny, they become untradeable and unbreedable.

- 20x PP Super Max: PP max that permanently keeps a slot maxed even if you change a move.

- 6x Exclusive particle effect. I don't really care about particles but I could at least sell them. They get added to the 6 Pokemon you used most on the ladder.

- 10x Giant Brace: a breeding brace that guarantees passing HP, Def and Spdef.

 

I literally am making these up as I write this post so it really shouldn't be that hard to think about unique rewards that are actually beneficial for comp players.

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16 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

I don't mean that they should make the hats tradeable. Bur there needs to be something that is of value for actual competitive players. Because I can hopefully speak for most competitive players here when I say that I don't care about a hat. Hats aren't something I can use in battle, or aren't something that helps me battling. So why the fuck should I ever grind 350 games for a hat, while tournament of 6-7 games have objectively better rewards than the end of season reward???

 

I mean let that sink in. I can win 7 games in a row. And I'd have a better experience and better reward than grinding out 250 wins. That's insane, literally insane.

 

Here from the top of my hat a few ideas that would be way more appealing for comp players as end of season reward or cycle rewards:

- Shiny Gem (untradeable): Makes one Pokemon you have shiny, they become untradeable and unbreedable.

- 20x PP Super Max: PP max that permanently keeps a slot maxed even if you change a move.

- 6x Exclusive particle effect. I don't really care about particles but I could at least sell them. They get added to the 6 Pokemon you used most on the ladder.

- 10x Giant Brace: a breeding brace that guarantees passing HP, Def and Spdef.

 

I literally am making these up as I write this post so it really shouldn't be that hard to think about unique rewards that are actually beneficial for comp players.

12 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

On top of tHat you get an untradeable hat.... untradeable what???

ah i thought that you wanted tradable hats cuz of this 
 

 

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I honestly think that the "reward problem" is only relevant to a small proportion of players. Most of players enjoy playing PvP whenever they want and that's the reason behind the existence of matchmaking, it's not here to be grinded for rewards, though it sure is a reason to play 5 matches instead of 3 a day. But since players struggle to even find 1 match, rewards aren't to me the real issue behind players lack of investment in MM. Official tournaments happen quite regularly, and have much more hype and weight behind each win to be more attractive for player's feeling of progress and success. Getting 1 rounded may just want player to do better next time, aka in 3 days, while having time for only 2-3 MM matches in between. 

 

On another note since LC tournaments are less regular, it's even more a reason to add matchmaking. 

#AddLCMatchmaking

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11 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

There should be actual rewards for placing high on the ladder, it doesn't even have to be money, but imagine like Top3 in OU get a Shiny Tyra/Milotic/Mence. Top 3 NU Shiny Kanga/Houndoom/Poliwrath. Etc. Maybe more people would actually have a reason to bother queueing up. But nah that will never happen cuz we still pretending shiny economy is a thing and that it matters for whatever reason. 

I mean i like the idea of getting actual good rewards for placing high on the ladder, but in the end the same thing that happens this season will occur every month if shiny prizes are a thing; someones gonna nolife and if at all a handful of people will be able to compete for the top spots, whereas in tours you got a set frame of up to 7 matches to get a shiny, which is doable for a lot more people. Even if the lower tier ladders were active 24/7, would you wanna play 1k+ games to have a chance to get a shiny? Not worth the effort imo.

 

Improving the prizes of seasonal tours on the other hand sounds like a good idea, because the grind necessary should be more realistically doable, since you´re gonna compete with 63 people, not a bunch of nolifing ones. Doubt we´ll see top tier shinies tho, cause ye, economy :^)

 

9 hours ago, Rittz said:

I'd just say Biba Hat looks great

This!  I honestly dont see the problem with vanity items not being tradeable, because theres way better options to grab some yen in comparison. The problem is that you can only promote tiers with vanity items as the "top reward" as long as people dont have the vanity they desire. Rewards are shit once you grabbed the free comp each rotation and got the vanity you want, so dont see a reason to spam games anymore.

 

And in conjunction to what quinn said; if the vanity items were tradeable, wouldnt the biggest winners be the rich guys in mmo, altough they literally didnt do anything for that "reward" ?

 

56 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

So why the fuck should I ever grind 350 games for a hat, while tournament of 6-7 games have objectively better rewards than the end of season reward???

Both rewards are just vanity, because its not like that shiny prize has too much competitive value either. Still a better ratio of (time) investment and reward, but in the end both are kinda useless unless you wanna show off something special.

 

3 hours ago, Mike said:

As it's always been UU and NU aren't as popular mainly because it is not the first tier a player gets into. And seeing how much of a pain it can be to breed and make a larger amount of pokemon I can see how people can be turned off from playing the lower tiers, especially if they barely have any OU mons. Even more for newer players.

Yeah. I think they only fix to the whole problem has to do something with lowering access cost to play UU/NU and smh making playing those ladders attractive.

 

Maybe give people access to sample teams for UU/NU. Those sample teams can be used without having to own the pokes until they reach x points on the reward tree or something; give out more breeding support packages via rewards; daily quest reward points that can be traded for a free comp eventually, stuff like that. Theres probably plenty of better ideas, but imo allowing people to playtest and cheaply entering UU/NU >

 

8 hours ago, Parke said:

I get that there's only so much the devs can/want to do to reward us. Giving UU/NU better prizes than OU makes no sense, you're right. Which is why I made a discussion here to see if anyone has any ideas that could work with the system.

I dont think giving UU/NU players better rewards doesnt make sense. Only giving them better rewards wont suffice, but i think it has to be part of the solution. Kinda doubt OU players will quit the game because rewards in lower tiers are better, but they might wanna swap or expand the pool of tiers they play. Thats where there has to be something that supports people getting into the tiers / where some kind of promotion could kick in.

 

In the end lower tiers are just part of the product and they´re waiting to be sold to people properly. If whoever sells the product doesnt care or doesnt know how to do it, it wont sell. Thats the main issue i think.

 

 

Edited by NOREButler
formatting is hard, mhmkaay
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The most frustrating thing about this is the excuse is always 'this would break the economy' when speaking about PvP rewards.

 

Devs didn't care when everyone was farming 5m+ per day using their awful berry system, taking them months to even address it. 2 years later & we still haven't recovered from the inflation that was caused. For 2 years the best way to earn money is to generate new money into the game using NPCs & gym leaders, further increasing the inflation. 

 

They do not care about the economy or how people earn their money, it's only an excuse not to give PvP players any meaningful reward. We've complained about the rewards for years now, and although the new MM system was an improvement, the rewards are still lackluster with little value. Every wealthy player in this game has so much money to the point they don't know what to spend it on, due to PvE, GTL flipping, & the shiny market. Yet trying to even things out & give PvP players a chance in this economy will somehow break it?

Edited by Paul
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15 minutes ago, Paul said:

The most frustrating thing about this is the excuse is always 'this would break the economy' when speaking about PvP rewards.

 

Devs didn't care when everyone was farming 5m+ per day using their awful berry system, taking them months to even address it. 2 years later & we still haven't recovered from the inflation that was caused. For 2 years the best way to earn money is to generate new money into the game using NPCs & gym leaders, further increasing the inflation. 

 

They do not care about the economy or how people earn their money, it's only an excuse not to give PvP players any meaningful reward. We've complained about the rewards for years now, and although the new MM system was an improvement, the rewards are still lackluster with little value. Every wealthy player in this game has so much money to the point they don't know what to spend it on, due to PvE, GTL flipping, & the shiny market. Yet trying to even things out & give PvP players a chance in this economy will somehow break it?

I completely agree, but thats the one thing ive literally given up on. The rewarding times to play comp are over, because there wont be a shiny zard reward anymore. Shame really, but dead horse.

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31 minutes ago, NOREButler said:

Both rewards are just vanity, because its not like that shiny prize has too much competitive value either. Still a better ratio of (time) investment and reward, but in the end both are kinda useless unless you wanna show off something special.

Shinies are at least vanities that can be used in battle. So I actually like them as prizes, although I really think it should just be 6 selectable IVs. Really don't understand why it's not. On top of that you get 1k+ RP an actual reward. Honestly I could get into quarters or semis and it would still be much better than the seasonal reward. I'll take 125RP over an untradeable hat I will never wear any day. 

 

If you give a comp player 5m. And they know they have a reliable way to get 5m again in a few weeks, they will spend that 5m guaranteed. More comps, better IVs, more PP maxes, more moveset changes. Comp is the ultimate money sink. And unlike shiny traders, we actually don't hoard money usually. This is why it's so baffling that comp players earn so little from MM. DON'T  WORRY, WE WILL SPEND IT

 What better way to promote more tiers by giving comp players more freedom to make more Pokemon?

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I don't recall who said it earlier in regards to not making the vanities tradable, but here's just a quick idea

 

1. Make the vanities tradable

2. Make the vanities limited to that season only

3. Reduce the cost of earning the vanities

4. Allow players to farm multiple of the vanity item, not just one

 

The reduced point requirement allows laddering to be a real money-making method, as it would be the only way to farm these limiteds. You create separate vanities that are untradable & limited, only given to those who place top-100. And finally, untradable limiteds for those who place top-10. 

 

How does this help, and what affect does this have on lower tiers?

 

If 1,000 people are farming the OU limited, but only 200 are farming the UU limited, the price *should* be higher, resulting in more profit for UU players. PvE players who want to make profit as well will likely choose one of the lower, more valuable tiers. We earn more money, we incentivize PvE players to play every tier, and we get more limited items into the game for people to invest in, while still having those untradable vanities exclusive to those who finish on the leaderboard. 

 

The biggest negative is that this relies heavily on the limited items not looking like garbage, and after 2 seasons of the current system I'm not confident in them being able to make multiple attractive vanity items. 

 

 

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You r all speaking about the rewards but we move away from the principal subject imo. Rewards are a small parts of the problem, people play ranked to have a competitive aspect without having to wait for a tournament. If we buff the price for the top ladder it will be the same as what we have today : only the top10 UU and NU will queue over and over to get the first price and no new player to discover these tier. 

 

There are few way to promote these tier like making more tournament or making a small description of the tier when you open the ranked windows.

An other idea could be to put a limit of 10 match per day in a tier, people who play a lot in a single tier might be interested in other tier when they have finished their 10 match in OU. But yeah still an idea and whatever dev change it all depend of the community.

 

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As I said and will repeat, no matter if people believe in it or not, while we have OU + UU/NU MM ranked at the same time, the vast majority of players will queue to OU, period. 

Rewards are irrelevant, cause if they were not, we wouldn't have active lower tiers in the beginning in the first place, and we would have a more balanced flux of players in each tier cause every tier has similar rewards. 

So, the only surefire way to fix the low flux in lower tiers is creating timewindows separately, for OU and lower tiers, simple as that.

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