PokeMMO Battle Series (What I’m planning after PSL)

[ThinkNicer]

 

So now that Comp Alley is a bit dead with no PSL week going on at the moment, I’d like to take advantage of the silence to pitch this idea (and to bring some life into this graveyard goddamn). I’m planning on running another big event after PSL and something similar has already been done. The Battle Series would basically be a draft league, like Orange did a few years ago. But I’m planning on doing it bigger and better POG.

 

 

For the once that don’t know, a draft league is where each participating player is a ‘manager’, but instead of managing a player team you’re managing a Pokémon team. The mons that will make it to your team will be determined by a draft (hence the name). Draft leagues are a lot of fun because you get to see all sorts of Pokemon being used competitively with a wide array of strategies. There are no ‘tiers’ per se in a draft league, because players pick mons in order it is unlikely a player will end up with many OU mons. It also depends on the way a league organizes their draft.

 

 

The downside to a draft league in PokeMMO is that it takes resources to make Pokémon for your team. Because you have insight on what your opponent can bring you can play with many sets and EV spreads, but these take time and ingame funds to accomplish.

 

 

Despite that I think draft league can revitalize many players that feel a bit sick of the current metagame, be it any tier. So here is how I propose this draft league to work. First, the draft would be a ‘free draft’. So there is no point system, or any tier system. Any mon (that I haven’t banned) would be free to be picked. So if other players would allow it, one player could have 6 OUs on their roster (for example).

 

 

Second every team would have a manager and co-manager. So basically 2 players pilot a team. Both players would be allowed to be the battler. I think this brings needed flexibility in scheduling and has the added benefit that players can work together in teambuilding and doing the actual breeding/EVing ingame. Two players per ‘team’ would also make this competition more inclusive because a draft league with 10 teams would only equal 10 players in the end.

 

 

20 Players still doesn’t seem like a lot though, so I’ve thought of two things that could include more players if the interest is there.

 

 

1.      A Battle Series (Singles) and Battle Series (Doubles) league running side by side. This would simply double the possible participants from 20 to 40. Also doesn’t leave out any Doubles enthusiasts.

2.      Divisions, so something like a Gold Battle Series and Silver Battle Series. I would either pick in which division a player starts in or let players decide where they’d like to start at signup (likely a combination of both). The gold series would have a much higher prize pool of course. But it would also bring more drama into the lower ranks because I’d like to make this a reoccurring competition so we can have demotions to silver and promotions to gold at the end of seasons.

 

 

Anyway let me know what you think, I know it’s still fairly far away (probably a month after PSL finals conclude) but I’d like to know if I should invest more time into this or not based on interest.

Edited November 20, 2020 by ThinkNicer

[Poufilou]

I love the idea. I have some questions ! 

 

- You said that 20 players (10 teams) is not enough, and your proposal of doubles is nice, but why not increase the number of teams ? 10 teams means 60 pokemons available in draft. Since we have 40 pokemon in OU, will it be really different than the meta ? 

 

- Do the draft only allows to choose 6 pokemons, or can you get more pokemons at some point in the competition so you can change a bit your roster ? It could be a good idea. 

- What about a selective draft where each teams of players have to choose something like 2 OU, 2 UU, 2 NU ? It could be interesting for players to build a team like this, because then every pokemon would be viable and we will have more diversity, instead of people trying to pick strong mons, they will think about how to make synergy between the OU they got and the NU that are available for example. 

 

- For the resources issues, since we may not have the pokemons already, how about give some time for players to prepare by giving a list of pokemons present in the draft beforehand ? Then give also some time for players to breed them once they chose them, or change moveset accordingly to this new meta. 

 

- I'm not familiar with Battle Series / Divisions system, can you explain it ?

 

Hyped tho !

[DoubleJ]

Noctowl was number one until I realized Mirror Move was not Mirror Coat. 

[Draekyn]

Draft leagues are always fun.
2 (or more) people per team seems necessary given the nature of the game (it bears repeating that doing well will likely require a lot of diversity in the sets you bring). Could do a captain piloting and an additional 1/2/x people acting as a front office, even rotate the captain position if the teams want that.

@Poufilou Usually drafts consist of a larger number of mons than what you actually bring each week. For example one could allow a 10/12 mons draft per team, it makes for more diversity and gives teams more leeway on teambuilding week to week.

The way they're usually ran is mons are given a value (mostly dependant on tier), each team being allowed X amount of mons from each tier, making it so teams can be creative and make use of lower tier mons with specific sets to counter opposing threats each week.

@ThinkNicer Pulling the doubles crowd by running both simultaneously is a good idea, it would probably be best to limit the number of teams running (spitballing but 10 for each league seems fine) by making them larger (front office or pilot rotation) so you don't end up with too many teams, making the draft process difficult.

[NikhilR]

So I'm currently playing in a draft-system tour that is hosted on a separate simulator.  How it works is that you have 90 points, and you can draft minimum of 6 mons.  Each mon will have a points value attached to it, like this in this pic:

 

https://i.imgur.com/KPICR5e.jpg

 

You could probably do a draft system for OU / UU / NU where it will be a 3-player team and players having the option to rotate tiers.

 

 

[EricRasp]

I smell lots of cash coming my way. Mmmmmm....

 

If there is anything you would like me to help with, don't hesitate to look for me @ThinkNicer :)

[Zigh]

11 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

So I'm currently playing in a draft-system tour that is hosted on a separate simulator.  How it works is that you have 90 points, and you can draft minimum of 6 mons.  Each mon will have a points value attached to it, like this in this pic:

 

https://i.imgur.com/KPICR5e.jpg

 

You could probably do a draft system for OU / UU / NU where it will be a 3-player team and players having the option to rotate tiers.

 

 

I played something like this in the past, but instead of points there was a tier list and each tier had a restriction of how many mons you could draft (ex. 1 tier S, 2 tier A, etc). This helps with possible unbalanced teams that can be formed thx to opponents planning incorrectly

[ThinkNicer]

1 hour ago, Poufilou said:

 You said that 20 players (10 teams) is not enough, and your proposal of doubles is nice, but why not increase the number of teams ? 10 teams means 60 pokemons available in draft. Since we have 40 pokemon in OU, will it be really different than the meta ? 

 

- Do the draft only allows to choose 6 pokemons, or can you get more pokemons at some point in the competition so you can change a bit your roster ? It could be a good idea. 

- What about a selective draft where each teams of players have to choose something like 2 OU, 2 UU, 2 NU ? It could be interesting for players to build a team like this, because then every pokemon would be viable and we will have more diversity, instead of people trying to pick strong mons, they will think about how to make synergy between the OU they got and the NU that are available for example. 

 

- For the resources issues, since we may not have the pokemons already, how about give some time for players to prepare by giving a list of pokemons present in the draft beforehand ? Then give also some time for players to breed them once they chose them, or change moveset accordingly to this new meta. 

 

- I'm not familiar with Battle Series / Divisions system, can you explain it ?

 

 

I don't want to have too many teams because the competition would be stretched out as well. 10 teams for example is 9 weeks + 2-3 weeks of playoffs. I think the max would be 12. But that's where divisions can come in if you have a massive amount of players that want to play.

 

I think for this draft league I'll have people draft 10-12 pokemon for the team. Idk what number yet.

 

I don't think we need to complicate the draft with tier restrictions. If every team gets to pick 12 pokemon for example, than the number of tiered Pokemon for each team will be roughly the same and it will balance each other out. Likewise I don't really think we need a point system because the rosters will be bigger than 6.

 

People will have plenty of time to prepare, that's also why I'm posting this early. So people know it can happen and that you can start saving resources for it.

 

Divisions are like footbal leagues. You have lower leagues and the highest league. Gold series would be the highest league with 10-12 teams. Silver would probably be 8+. The top 2 of Silver would promote the next season to gold series, while the bottom 2 of gold series would go down to silver series the next season. Over the course of seasons you'll naturally have less experienced / capable players in the silver league and the highest caliber in gold.

 

 

[CaptnBaklava]

Love the idea.

1 hour ago, EricRasp said:

I smell lots of cash coming my way. Mmmmmm....

 

If there is anything you would like me to help with, don't hesitate to look for me @ThinkNicer :)

Haha same :D the PSL Special made so much cash its incredible.

[DaftCoolio]

Have you put any thought into perhaps banning some pokemon like conk/hydre considering the advantage it would give people drafting 1st/2nd. Even assuming you snake idk if it makes up for it

[ThinkNicer]

8 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

Have you put any thought into perhaps banning some pokemon like conk/hydre considering the advantage it would give people drafting 1st/2nd. Even assuming you snake idk if it makes up for it

Yeah a little. I'm still on the fence on what I'd ban. Conkeldurr seems like the most broken mon in the draft format since it really only has two solid counters in Hippo and Cofagrigus (and even then CB Conk can destroy Hippo). Hydreigon already has more 'counters' than conk like pink plobs, mantine, mandibuzz. Tho the focus energy set might be hard to beat if you dont have access to some Pokemon. Mons like Dragonite/Volc at least have some massive exploitable weakness like rocks or a tech hp ice/rock.

 

Another question would be if we should complex ban moves/abilities on these mons or that flat bans are a better approach. 

[gbwead]

5 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

Yeah a little. I'm still on the fence on what I'd ban. Conkeldurr seems like the most broken mon in the draft format since it really only has two solid counters in Hippo and Cofagrigus (and even then CB Conk can destroy Hippo). Hydreigon already has more 'counters' than conk like pink plobs, mantine, mandibuzz. Tho the focus energy set might be hard to beat if you dont have access to some Pokemon. Mons like Dragonite/Volc at least have some massive exploitable weakness like rocks or a tech hp ice/rock.

 

Another question would be if we should complex ban moves/abilities on these mons or that flat bans are a better approach. 

You don't need to ban anything. The strongest mons will just naturally cost more than other mons.

[DaftCoolio]

54 minutes ago, gbwead said:

You don't need to ban anything. The strongest mons will just naturally cost more than other mons.

But draft

[ThinkNicer]

Im not using points.

[gbwead]

Just now, ThinkNicer said:

Im not using points.

smh

[ThinkNicer]

Using points in the first few seasons isn't a good idea imo. Yes we can theorize about what Pokemon would be strong and it's probably easy to pick the S tier picks but deciding what's A tier in a draft format is already pretty tricky. What I mean is that pokemon A ranked in OU are not neccesarily as good in a draft format. And because we have a unique combination of mechanics in MMO it'll all just be theorymon guesswork. So we just gotta see everything in practise.

 

But like I said S+ tier threats are easier to find. Just by looking at how many Pokemon can either wall or OHKO Conk, I think that's the biggest problem mon, that's basically for certain. 

[CHUCKunso]

First of all: Damn hype! I was thinking about trying to host a MMO Draft League myself because I like the concept a lot!

Now for feedback.

4 hours ago, ThinkNicer said:

Despite that I think draft league can revitalize many players that feel a bit sick of the current metagame, be it any tier. So here is how I propose this draft league to work. First, the draft would be a ‘free draft’. So there is no point system, or any tier system. Any mon (that I haven’t banned) would be free to be picked. So if other players would allow it, one player could have 6 OUs on their roster (for example).

A lot of people already brought up the point about tiering in S/A/B... or a point based system and I have to agree that we'd need some kind of similar system even if it's really hard to come up with. We should also consider to ban our notorious problems like conkel and hydreigon and build a tiering around those 2 missing.
One way we did tiering in a draft league I was playing in was legit with everyone who played in that league. All on Discord rating each possible mon and trying to figure out tiering by discussing a lot. Takes time but removes the responsibility from the hosts and puts it on all of the players to look out for the most fair pool in each tier.

[gbwead]

The fact that people are worried and are already suggesting somes bans should be a pretty good indicator that a simple draft is a bad idea for this event.

Edited October 29, 2020 by gbwead

[CHUCKunso]

3 minutes ago, gbwead said:

The fact that people are worried and are already suggesting somes bans should be a pretty good indicator that a simple draft is a bad idea for this event.

It's WAAAY easier to build a proper pool of mons if we don't put in the most op shit our meta has to offer right now. I'd even argue that a mon like Lucario is (debatable) banworthy in a MMO draftleague.

[ThinkNicer]

1 minute ago, CHUCKunso said:

First of all: Damn hype! I was thinking about trying to host a MMO Draft League myself because I like the concept a lot!

Now for feedback.

A lot of people already brought up the point about tiering in S/A/B... or a point based system and I have to agree that we'd need some kind of similar system even if it's really hard to come up with. We should also consider to ban our notorious problems like conkel and hydreigon and build a tiering around those 2 missing.
One way we did tiering in a draft league I was playing in was legit with everyone who played in that league. All on Discord rating each possible mon and trying to figure out tiering by discussing a lot. Takes time but removes the responsibility from the hosts and puts it on all of the players to look out for the most fair pool in each tier.

don't take this as me dismissing feedback, but what is the reason a point system is so needed? Barring the 2 Pokemon we mentioned we have a lot of Pokemon on equal footing. With a snake pattern draft most teams should end up around the same power level without having to put so much time into a point system that might be flawed in some unforseen way (and there are ALWAYS unforseen things xd)

 

Just now, gbwead said:

The fact that people are worried and are already suggesting somes bans should be a pretty good indicator that a draft is a bad idea for this event.

That has more to do with certain pokemon having access to all their moves and abilities while some don't. Hydreigon could even lose Draco in MMO before this starts and then its really only just Conk thats worrisome.

[DaftCoolio]

7 minutes ago, gbwead said:

The fact that people are worried and are already suggesting somes bans should be a pretty good indicator that a simple draft is a bad idea for this event.

Surely a tc member can understand that listening to the community isnt how things work around here

[CHUCKunso]

Just now, ThinkNicer said:

don't take this as me dismissing feedback, but what is the reason a point system is so needed? Barring the 2 Pokemon we mentioned we have a lot of Pokemon on equal footing. With a snake pattern draft most teams should end up around the same power level without having to put so much time into a point system that might be flawed in some unforseen way (and there are ALWAYS unforseen things xd)

There will always be fucked up tier placement, that is just not avoidable! It's mostly that removing a few more of the "power houses" might actually great a more diverse and balanced meta game. It won't just be Hydreigon and Conk who will reign such formats but also mons like Pel with the proper abusers, Reuniclus, maybe even Lucario. But maybe I am looking at the possible meta a bit too pessimistic, Idk. I just feel like it might be healthier when we also try to incluce UUs, NUs and UTs sorta "on purpose".

[ThinkNicer]

3 minutes ago, CHUCKunso said:

There will always be fucked up tier placement, that is just not avoidable! It's mostly that removing a few more of the "power houses" might actually great a more diverse and balanced meta game. It won't just be Hydreigon and Conk who will reign such formats but also mons like Pel with the proper abusers, Reuniclus, maybe even Lucario. But maybe I am looking at the possible meta a bit too pessimistic, Idk. I just feel like it might be healthier when we also try to incluce UUs, NUs and UTs sorta "on purpose".

I think part of my problem with points is also that the devs are unpredictable and the point system could be all fucked up with one random update. And I dont think you need to worry about having UUs and NUs show up.

 

Id like around 10-12 teams in each 'division'. They all need to pick 12 Pokemon so with 10 teams you'd already have 120 picks. We have 41 OUs (including chomp) and 43 UUs, so still plenty of room for NUs. Also there are certain roles in teams that are harder to fill so people will generally have to look in lower tiers. Like rockers or defoggers.

 

Anyway I can make a poll with some options.

[DaftCoolio]

@Toastdoubles division will be us, team name SAFF

[ThinkNicer]

Id love to see old players return with a fresh new way to play/compete.

 

Added a poll.