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November-Movement Discussion Thread


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3 hours ago, gbwead said:

As for Bronzor and Drifloon, they are absolutely not banworhty imo. There are multiple ways to deal with these threats. I have been playing Porygon Discharge + Trick for over 6 months now and it beats Bronzor and Drifloon quite reliably.

If Arena Trap was banned, Ponyta and Larvesta with Flame Charge + Morning Sun would also be able to beat Drifloon and Bronzor. There is also no requirement to counter/check Bronzor and Drifloon with the same pokemon. Vullaby Knock Off will beat Bronzor all the time and Recycle Magnemite (Shame Arena Trap) will beat Drifloon all the time.

I don't think anyone said these pokemons were banwhorthy. But I'm still not convinced about the "multiple ways" you offer.

 

Yes, Ponyta, Larvesta, and even Magby can deal with Bronzor, and their usage is not so low to be irrelevant to point out (as opposed to mold breaker Cranidos/Axew). But if those pokemons are the only things you can use to threaten a KO, I don't see how that makes it healthier, since all the other mons will have trouble to deal with Bronzor. Not to mention that all these threats you can oppose to Bronzor are weak to rocks, so bringing them whenever Bronzor wants to wall just lead you to death. The main issue isn't Bronzor the pokemon, but Bronzor + recycle. If we could weaken Bronzor by other means that bringing the rare mons that can beat it, now that would be healthy. 

 

As for Drifloon, there are not many possibilities either. Their only counter is something that can tank acrobatic and threaten a OHKO. That leaves Porygon Discharge, Magnemite and Chinchou thunderbolt, and maybe Rock Blast Onix, even though it's hard to pull off since Drifloon can will o wisp and also RNG with hits and accuracy. I don't think that's enough pokemons for me to say that it has "enough counters" for it to be healthy. 

 

I do agree with mienfoo-arena trap thing. But Arena Trap unban is temporary so we'll just have to suffer few more days till halloween update I guess. 

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11 minutes ago, PoseidonWrath said:

or those people just use a vullaby or other any mon with knock off to handle it.


drif and bronz are the 2 biggest users of recycle and like gb listed mons like Vullaby and recyc magne can handle it finely

 

I remember i saw somewhere arena trap is temporarily so mons like ponyta and larvesta also can handle it fine after it get banned again

 

totally no problem with recycle

 

if ppl hav problems with it just stop playing the tier

Even when arena trap was believed to be banned and nobody used diglett/trapinch, Mienfoo was still sitting at a heavy 70+% usage.

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Too many people to quote so just an overview:

1) ban arena trap soon pls ty

2) berry juice mons really aren't broken (note their defenses are lowered without a lite). so if you refuse to accept viable options bc they're not high enough usage for your liking or you just don't like them, you're part of the problem and validate people spamming them. note that the people providing options have decent tournament success and if you watch their replays, you can see how they get around it for yourself 

3) at least test ban/nerf mienfoo ffs 

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I know nobody gives a fuck but....

 

Focus Energy Kingdra in doubles is pure cancer, the sheer amount of viable follow me/rage powder users combined with this Kingdra makes it broken AF. If you commit to using spread moves then Kingdra simply protects while the opponent sends a wide guard user in. There is a reason it plagues lower ladder

 

Its cancer

 

nobody cares about doubles

 

please ban Focus Energy

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So what even happened with arena trap, I'm not sure I understand why it's allowed? I do agree with GB though, you can't evaluate mienfoo in the tier with arena trap allowed since it abuses trapping so well to take away its counters and checks. And with mienfoo, observation in the tier is the only real remedy for it's perceived unhealthiness (more specifically, observation of what LC would look like without mienfoo, as part of a suspect). I'd be really curious to see what mons step in to fill foo's void in a suspect

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16 minutes ago, DoctorPBC said:

I know nobody gives a fuck but....

 

Focus Energy Kingdra in doubles is pure cancer, the sheer amount of viable follow me/rage powder users combined with this Kingdra makes it broken AF. If you commit to using spread moves then Kingdra simply protects while the opponent sends a wide guard user in. There is a reason it plagues lower ladder

 

Its cancer

 

nobody cares about doubles

 

please ban Focus Energy

I agree, that thing every hit kills you a poke, the fact of having good bulk (85 on both defenses is not bad), decent speed that with tailwind (which is provided by his lifelong partner togekiss) It returns faster than the entire meta without a power-up, a good typing and a weakness that lacks area attacks (dragon) so it ends up being follow me bait, probably by the time you finish with that thing you will have already lost 2-4 mons and you will be well damaged to continue with the remaining boosters

Edited by Huargensy
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1 hour ago, DoctorPBC said:

I know nobody gives a fuck but....

 

Focus Energy Kingdra in doubles is pure cancer, the sheer amount of viable follow me/rage powder users combined with this Kingdra makes it broken AF. If you commit to using spread moves then Kingdra simply protects while the opponent sends a wide guard user in. There is a reason it plagues lower ladder

 

Its cancer

 

nobody cares about doubles

 

please ban Focus Energy

I don't feel focus energy is the real problem. I think it comes down to the follow me spam. It can constantly be used with no misses

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11 minutes ago, EricRasp said:

Everyone here agrees that Mienfoo is a problem and its usage is proof of that. I think its fair to test ban mienfoo for a short period and move forward from there.

Who is everyone ?

mienfoo is not Uber LC at all, he is just too good to not be used.

the real issue is that he is the only one Pokémon with regenerator actually, and a heal ability in LC is really really strong.


I’m always against banning stuff easily just because people don’t want to deal with.
 

Ban regenerator from LC should be an option to make mienfoo less used, because I can understand how it’s annoying to face a Pokémon who can heal just with spamming uturn and switch out, but to be honest I’m against an mienfoo ban in LC.

 

And about recycle/berry juice, just listen to coolio, ty

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I've never had a problem with Mienfoo. You just need to use the right pokemon against it.

 

To quote Cali 'so if you refuse to accept viable options bc they're not high enough usage for your liking or you just don't like them, you're part of the problem'

 

I have more problem with berry juice recycle spam that I ever have done with Mienfoo.

 

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