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Munya

November-Movement Discussion Thread

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First month of new season, 6.7% and up to move up, 1.7 and below to go down.

Season ends on Saturday so putting this thread up throughout this week, barring any significant usage changes nothing is currently above or below any cutoffs to move.


Discuss whatever you feel needs discussing.

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Im gonna lose my mind if this tc will allow Hydra further. Oh I already know what the excuse is going to be. 'We know that Garchomp will be moving down soon which magically makes Hydreigon not the threat it used to be and everyrhing is fine. We will need to examine the metagame for the next 5 months to see how Garchomp affects the viability of Hydreigon'

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if you cant add Fairy types to balance gen 5 dragon meta you have to do your own balancing. Hydreigon does not care about outrage nerf, it needs its draco meteor to be removed until something is immune to Focus Energy/Choice Specs Hydreigon

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49 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

Im gonna lose my mind if this tc will allow Hydra further. Oh I already know what the excuse is going to be. 'We know that Garchomp will be moving down soon which magically makes Hydreigon not the threat it used to be and everyrhing is fine. We will need to examine the metagame for the next 5 months to see how Garchomp affects the viability of Hydreigon'

Can I just quote you when the time comes

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My vote:
Nerf Garchomp, removing sd.
Ban Hydreigon + Draco meteor, it is simply too much for the current meta, if it is not Chansey or Blissey nothing happens from the 2hko preventing making a minimally safe change, and the mixed with Focus Energy is even more dangerous if you do not exceed its speed.

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5 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

Test ban mienfoo

It would be nerf regenerator, a few months ago there was talk about Mienfoo + regenerator and it was decided that it did not break the meta LC... In any case, it is not unreasonable to put it in review again, in these months it went from 75% of use to 81%

Edited by DiosSlurpuff
Wrong languaje

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13 minutes ago, DiosSlurpuff said:

It would be nerf regenerator, a few months ago there was talk about Mienfoo + regenerator and it was decided that it did not break the meta LC... In any case, it is not unreasonable to put it in review again, in these months it went from 75% of use to 81%

I don't think anything was decided in this regard, just no one in TC was pushing the Mienfoo test ban any further or give an official reasoning why it isn't a good idea. And that's really what I would like to still hear: why would the LC metagame need Mienfoo, while it's just way too much value in one Pokemon to not to put in your team and the usage demonstrates it. I don't think a Pokemon reached this high usage numbers ever unless it's a tournament exclusive to experienced players. And now we have 80% usage on "open for everyone" platform. That should ring some serious bells.

 

And if there's no good examples of how removing Mienfoo makes the metagame worse, I think this is as clear of a unhealthiness ban as it gets.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac

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54 minutes ago, DiosSlurpuff said:

Nerf Garchomp, removing sd.

This I agree. With Yache, this is a very annoying mon to counter. Hone claws is still manageable.

 

EDIT: Inb4 100% accurate +1 stone edge, and fire blast lmao

Edited by EricRasp

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24 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

And if there's no good examples of how removing Mienfoo makes the metagame worse, I think this is as clear of a unhealthiness ban as it gets.

Yes please

Only downside of it is that Mienfoo is one of the most reliable knock off user, and removing it would make berry juice recycle abuse even stronger than it already is.

 

Getting around Bronzor or Drifloon is possible, I don't deny it, but at a too high cost everytime for it to be healthy. Especially for Drifloon, that outspeeds most knock off users alternative to Mienfoo, and can activate Unburden at ease, outspeeding even Elekid scarf. The substitute doesn't allow you to taunt or trick, and once it's set up you pretty much can't outspeed anyways to use it.

 

Entry hazard don't even help against it. Drifloon can activate unburden after taking dmg from rocks and sub, and Bronzor just doesn't care. By the time you get Bronzor just a little above 50% health to attempt a KO, he already did all his job he can do, setting up rock, toxic, or doing chip dmg, and can switch out and just activate berry juice again next time. 

 

There are other recycle abusers that I don't find as problematic. Munchlax can be dealt with thanks to its typing weak to Fighting and his low defense, and Trubbish don't have the bulk to survive the common Ground and Psychic moves. What makes Bronzor annoying is its typing, and Drifloon its ability, combined with berry juice recycle. 


Berry juice recycle itself isn't really broken or unhealthy imo, and I don't have any clue as to how fix the issue with these 2 pokemons (Drifloon being the most problematic because not many counters, Bronzor have more ways to deal with but almost all of them include sacrifices). 

 

I like the Mienfoo ban thing. I just would like for people to open voice about recycle Bronzor/Drifloon cos imo it's gonna be an issue that will rise up and up. 

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You could say berry juice recycle is that common BECAUSE of mienfoo though. Mienfoo forces the metagame to rely on recovery more than anything else. But this is why youd need a suspect test for such a ban.

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1 hour ago, Kaitha said:

Ban mienfoo ya cielos. lc es tan basura cajero

That would bring recycle abuse on Bronzor's part, as they said before. If Mienfoo is banned, it would be necessary to do the same with Bronzor almost obligatorily ...

On the other hand, since we mentioned LC, I don't know if it's the only one, but personally, I'm sick of arena trap

Edited by DiosSlurpuff

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Arena Trap is supposed to be banned, so I don't really take LC usage seriously. I'm fine with a potential Regenerator ban, but only after we get a few weeks/months of LC without Arena Trap.

 

As for Bronzor and Drifloon, they are absolutely not banworhty imo. There are multiple ways to deal with these threats. I have been playing Porygon Discharge + Trick for over 6 months now and it beats Bronzor and Drifloon quite reliably. If Arena Trap was banned, Ponyta and Larvesta with Flame Charge + Morning Sun would also be able to beat Drifloon and Bronzor. There is also no requirement to counter/check Bronzor and Drifloon with the same pokemon. Vullaby Knock Off will beat Bronzor all the time and Recycle Magnemite (Shame Arena Trap) will beat Drifloon all the time.

Edited by gbwead

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Bronzor hasn't been very formidable in PSL either, but Arena Trap changes nothing for Mienfoo as players still opt to use it (for good reason). I'm pretty sure I've seen only one game where both players didn't have Mienfoo in PSL.

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1 minute ago, ThinkNicer said:

Bronzor hasn't been very formidable in PSL either, but Arena Trap changes nothing for Mienfoo as players still opt to use it (for good reason). I'm pretty sure I've seen only one game where both players didn't have Mienfoo in PSL.

Arena Trap does change a lot regarding Mienfoo since U-Turn into Arena Trap will take out checks like Trubbish, Tentacool, Grimer, Croagunk and Larvesta. Ofc Mienfoo will still be insanely good even without Arena Trap, I'm not denying that. However, it's more than clear to me that Arena Trap helps Mienfoo considerably.

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Mienfoo is something very viable, that is why its use, in my opinion, the best user of knock off and to pivot with u turn, helps to control many threats (Porygon, Onix, Dwebble, etc) I don't see it as unhealthy, the truth is, it still has many counter and check (vullaby, frillish, larvesta (if it doesn't have stone), zubat) But on the matter about it, with sand trap if it is screwed, the counters that I used to have like (Trubbish, grimer) cannot enter for fear of being trapped, I had to be a victim in a semifinal, a mienfoo got me and my trubbish couldn't do nothing for fear of being trapped by trapinch. Maybe mienfoo is not unhealthy, but the combination with trap sand is benefiting you more than normal.

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1 hour ago, hannahtaylor said:

 

Recycle berry juice IS a problem. The people who have no problem with it are the people I see abuse it. 

or those people just use a vullaby or other any mon with knock off to handle it.


drif and bronz are the 2 biggest users of recycle and like gb listed mons like Vullaby and recyc magne can handle it finely

 

I remember i saw somewhere arena trap is temporarily so mons like ponyta and larvesta also can handle it fine after it get banned again

 

totally no problem with recycle

 

if ppl hav problems with it just stop playing the tier

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.Recycle's main abuser is Bronzor, if we had the latest mechanics, Dark and Ghost attacks would be super effective against it and it wouldn't be as dominant as it is currently.

.While Stuff like Ponyta/Growlithe/Larvesta/Taunt Vullaby deal with recycle Bronzor, hazards + double swtiching make it really hard to punish bronzor. The implementation of Heavy-Duty boots would greatly solve this matter.

Doubt it'd happen anytime soon, but one can hope i guess.

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