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The tier council needs a revamp because its stuck in 2012


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Just now, Munya said:

There are plans to change those items to where they reveal themselves much like air baloons do when the pokemon is sent out.

That is shit and does not resolve the problem at all, you're aware of that Munyu right?

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Just now, Munya said:

It is the next step we are willing to take, if it will fix things or not.

I'm already telling you it won't. It doesn't matter if you know if opponent has king's rock/ quick claw or not. You cannot counterplay it and that is the issue at hand.

Maybe making the King's Rock activate only on the very first hit (and not all 5) would be a good step and something to start with. But revealing the item itself does nothing at all.

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Roughly half of the TC has given their opinion on hax items including Quick Claw and King's Rock, which is to ban these items as they don't offer any benefit to the metagame, and instead promote bad play and harm good play.

 

With that said, we did have a short debate whether revealing these items would change anything. For starters, Quick Claw provides a random advantage that might not even activate and its downside is losing a likely more valuable item. Knowing  your opponent has Quick Claw might promote smarter play by the defender, who would play towards a guaranteed win con that wouldn't lose to a random speed boost. Learning your opponent has King's Rock is similar, meaning you now know right away if your opponent may have Focus Sash. This offers an advantage, but at the end of the day, better players abuse King's Rock and this won't make much of a difference.

 

My stand is to ban these items still.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Roughly half of the TC has given their opinion on hax items including Quick Claw and King's Rock, which is to ban these items as they don't offer any benefit to the metagame, and instead promote bad play and harm good play.

 

With that said, we did have a short debate whether revealing these items would change anything. For starters, Quick Claw provides a random advantage that might not even activate and its downside is losing a likely more valuable item. Knowing  your opponent has Quick Claw might promote smarter play by the defender, who would play towards a guaranteed win con that wouldn't lose to a random speed boost. Learning your opponent has King's Rock is similar, meaning you now know right away if your opponent may have Focus Sash. This offers an advantage, but at the end of the day, better players abuse King's Rock and this won't make much of a difference.

 

My stand is to ban these items still.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not a problem solving thing, you can't really predict a 10% activation item like quick claw even knowing before hand, much more in doubles where it is ultimately the bigger problem imo. King's rock wise, I think knowing doens't change much at all, since the rng will also still be there, and that's still counterproductive.

RNG as a whole shouldn't be as match defining as it currently is, with those 2 particular items. The problem itself lies with them being present, not us being aware that they're present. You know Sand Veil is present on every chomp, yet you still go for the same play you would 90% of the time, if it wasn't present right, same RNG factor.

Edited by razimove
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The problem is that, knowing which item hax it carries is not a good solution, knowing it does not imply that we prevent the backward movement of kings rock, nor that a rhyperior moves before a roserade, it is still a scenario where rng predominates.

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