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The5thHorseman

Premier Balls?

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I noticed PokeMMO removed the ability to obtain 1 premier ball when purchasing 10 Pokeballs in Hoenn Region. Also when helping the Devon Researcher he gives you a Great ball instead of a Premier ball. I don't like this change PokeMMO has made.

 

Can PokeMMO please fix this?

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14 minutes ago, EricRasp said:

no.

Why do you disagree? The change PokeMMO has made does not reflect the authenticity and nostalgia of the Hoenn Region. Premier Balls may have the same catch rate as Pokeballs, but they are a nice addition to the many several different kinds of Pokeballs we have available nowadays. 

 

Pokeballs aren't just for catching Pokemon, they're also valued as an artistic design attributed towards a Pokemon you throw into battle. The design of the ball is remeniscent of how you can now put labels on your Pokeballs for special effects when they are thrown into battle. Why have all the other several different kinds of Pokeballs available in PokeMMO except the Premier Ball? It doesn't make any sense, and it needs to be fixed.

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Premier Balls are returning every few events (or every event, I can't recall) lately, and they are one of prizes in event bags.

Simply adding them to pokemarts takes value from them, and giving out free pokeballs is not really a good idea for mmo imo

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11 hours ago, Bearminator said:

Premier Balls are returning every few events (or every event, I can't recall) lately, and they are one of prizes in event bags.

Simply adding them to pokemarts takes value from them, and giving out free pokeballs is not really a good idea for mmo imo

How does that make any logical sense? A Premier ball has the same catch rate as a Pokeball; it doesn't make any logical sense to give them away for special events when the catch rate is no higher than a standard pokeball. It would make more sense to give away a Masterball for special events, and something like a diveball or a quickball for less-special events (and removing them from in-game shops) due to the catch rate differences.

Edited by The5thHorseman

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10 hours ago, Quakkz said:

go play a single player emulator if you want to play 1:1 original games

I never said I wanted to play single player games or the originals did I? I'm expressing the fact that PokeMMO should retain some of the important nastalgia of Pokemon, and keep to common sense of Pokemon values, lest it strays too far from the ideals and interests of the Pokemon World which has inspired us to love Pokemon.

7 hours ago, FighterChamp said:

Nope

Ummm, yes it did. Go to Hoenn and buy 10 Pokeballs, then come back and try saying that again.

Edited by The5thHorseman

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11 hours ago, The5thHorseman said:

How does that make any logical sense? A Premier ball has the same catch rate as a Pokeball; it doesn't make any logical sense to give them away for special events when the catch rate is no higher than a standard pokeball. It would make more sense to give away a Masterball for special events, and something like a diveball or a quickball for less-special events (and removing them from in-game shops) due to the catch rate differences.

People don't want Premier Balls because of its catch rate but because of how it looks. The whole point of it being event only is to incentivize people that want to use Premier Balls to house their Pokemons to participate in events.

 

Now, why do you want Premier Balls? Probably to use it because it looks better than most Pokeballs, am I right? Then go participate in events.

 

 

11 hours ago, The5thHorseman said:

I never said I wanted to play single player games or the originals did I? I'm expressing the fact that PokeMMO should retain some of the important nastalgia of Pokemon, and keep to common sense of Pokemon values, lest it strays too far from the ideals and interests of the Pokemon World which has inspired us to love Pokemon.

Ummm, yes it did. Go to Hoenn and buy 10 Pokeballs, then come back and try saying that again.

Sorry friend, I don't think buying 10 Pokeballs and getting a Premier Ball is part of the nostalgia you're talking about. The Pokeball is already in the game, just a different way to get it.

I sure as hell didn't play Pokemon just because I can get a Premier Ball when buying 10 Pokeballs.

And one more thing, if you want that nostalgia you love so much, then maybe it is better to play the official games, because this isn't a 1:1 emulation.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Archiver said:

People don't want Premier Balls because of its catch rate but because of how it looks. The whole point of it being event only is to incentivize people that want to use Premier Balls to house their Pokemons to participate in events.

 

Now, why do you want Premier Balls? Probably to use it because it looks better than most Pokeballs, am I right? Then go participate in events.

 

 

Sorry friend, I don't think buying 10 Pokeballs and getting a Premier Ball is part of the nostalgia you're talking about. The Pokeball is already in the game, just a different way to get it.

I sure as hell didn't play Pokemon just because I can get a Premier Ball when buying 10 Pokeballs.

And one more thing, if you want that nostalgia you love so much, then maybe it is better to play the official games, because this isn't a 1:1 emulation.

 

 

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. However, I've noticed you're being very single-minded in your views on the matter:

1. It is not solely for the look to yearn for a Premier Ball, it is also fundamental fact of wanting it earlier in the game due to its catch rate, hence the reason why it should be available in store, and event prizes replaced with other balls with higher catch rates, considering you can't participate in events until you have LV. 50 Pokemon, and by that time theirs no point in having Pokeballs or Premier balls, cause all the low level pokemon are already obtained.

2. That your take my what I said out of context, when I mentioned that Premier balls are part of the nostalgia, you flipped that around to suit your ideaology, that I was implying that this is the sole-purpose of Pokemon (which isn't the case), but it is a unique, and well liked feature of the Hoenn Region, and thus is part of that nostalgia. Look at other Pokemon MMO games for example, some of them have made so many modifications that it doesn't reflect the values and interests we love that draws us to Pokemon, and I was expressing that by making changes contrary to logical process, and too many of them, will remove and eradicate those core values that attracts us to liking Pokemon.

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42 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

it is also fundamental fact of wanting it earlier in the game due to its catch rate

If it has the same rate as the standard Pokeball there is no reason for them to be in the marts at all anyway. Honestly when I learned that the Premier Ball was basically a recolored Pokeball in game getting them at a 10:1 ratio felt underwhelming.

 

43 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

hence the reason why it should be available in store

Giving out necessary tools for free in an MMO does not make sense at all. Even at a 10:1 ratio Pokeball to Premier Ball you are still giving away something that is always needed and run the risk of undercutting a money sink.

 

44 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

and event prizes replaced with other balls with higher catch rates

Putting Great or Ultra Balls in event prize bags is pretty underwhelming since they already exist in the stores as is. Giving away Master Balls in an event is pretty well out of the question with the guaranteed rate. So if you are going to put any kind of Pokeball in a prize bag the only sensible options would be Premier Ball or Cherish Ball. Since the event Goody Bags, which refers to events like Halloween or Christmas, are essentially special Mystery Boxes having them in there isn't really a bad thing. They can't put a ton of good stuff in them, especially since they can contain vanity items exclusive to that particular event.

 

46 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

considering you can't participate in events until you have LV. 50 Pokemon, and by that time theirs no point in having Pokeballs or Premier balls, cause all the low level pokemon are already obtained

Really explain how there is no point in having Pokeballs after beating the storyline. Last time I checked you still need them if you want to complete the Pokedex. Everything being at a low level is a non-issue since you can always use Smeargle with False Swipe and Spore or you can have lower level teams for certain areas just for farming.

 

55 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

Look at other Pokemon MMO games for example, some of them have made so many modifications that it doesn't reflect the values and interests we love that draws us to Pokemon, and I was expressing that by making changes contrary to logical process, and too many of them, will remove and eradicate those core values that attracts us to liking Pokemon.

It's an MMO, things will invariably be different. They can't give you everything you want because they have to take the multiplayer aspect into account. The original games did not.

 

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

If it has the same rate as the standard Pokeball there is no reason for them to be in the marts at all anyway. Honestly when I learned that the Premier Ball was basically a recolored Pokeball in game getting them at a 10:1 ratio felt underwhelming.

 

Giving out necessary tools for free in an MMO does not make sense at all. Even at a 10:1 ratio Pokeball to Premier Ball you are still giving away something that is always needed and run the risk of undercutting a money sink.

 

Putting Great or Ultra Balls in event prize bags is pretty underwhelming since they already exist in the stores as is. Giving away Master Balls in an event is pretty well out of the question with the guaranteed rate. So if you are going to put any kind of Pokeball in a prize bag the only sensible options would be Premier Ball or Cherish Ball. Since the event Goody Bags, which refers to events like Halloween or Christmas, are essentially special Mystery Boxes having them in there isn't really a bad thing. They can't put a ton of good stuff in them, especially since they can contain vanity items exclusive to that particular event.

 

Really explain how there is no point in having Pokeballs after beating the storyline. Last time I checked you still need them if you want to complete the Pokedex. Everything being at a low level is a non-issue since you can always use Smeargle with False Swipe and Spore or you can have lower level teams for certain areas just for farming.

 

It's an MMO, things will invariably be different. They can't give you everything you want because they have to take the multiplayer aspect into account. The original games did not.

 

1. Actually it does for pokemarts,; perhaps you meant that theirs no point having them at all period, which would better fit your argument.

2. No one ever said anything about giving out necessary tools for free.

3. If you paid attention to the conversation here and what's already been said, you'd see that I addressed the the concern of balls with higher catch rates being removed from stores and replacing the Premier balls as prizes for events. Also to note the fact that having a Masterball as a prize for greater in-game events actually makes pretty good sense, considering the fact you only get 1 Masterball per Region in-game, and their are at least 32 high level legendaries available to catch in PokeMMO currently with only 4 Masterballs, and no option to save the game if you run out of say 60 ultra balls during battle or lose all 6 of your Pokemon forever losing the chance to catch one or more of those 32+ high level legendaries. Giving a Masterball out for an annual tournament or once a year at Christmas time, would take more than two decades per player to actually fit your logic for argument, therefore your view on that precise concern is irrelevant.

4. Most players catch Pokemon along their journey to the end, in most cases filling their Pokedex up with most, if not all low-level Pokemon by the time they near the end of the game or in the instance of PokeMMO lv 50 for events to get Premier balls. Almost all players are not going to go back to an area with Pokemon who's levels are week enough to catch with a Pokeball, cause we already caught them by this time, depleting the purpose of having standard Pokeballs this late in the game (including Premier balls). Having Pokemon with moves to inflict statuses to increase catch rates on higher lv. and def. stat pokemon does allow you to use standard Pokeballs and Premier balls provided a great ball or a specialized ball isn't needed, but it's completely pointless for the vast majority of players cause we've already caught them on our journeys, and your not going to use status inflictions and standard Pokeballs or Premier balls on lv. 35, 40, 45 Pokemon later in the game when you have a stack of great balls or specialized ball cause your be wasting a heck of a lot of Pokeballs, and worse Premier balls that PokeMMO has made so rare to obtain. It makes no sense whatsoever.

5. I understand this is an mmo, and I agree with you on not getting everything you want the way you want it, however I think you're missing the point here. I was expressing a more logical sensible process of tool usage for chronological application. While it is a want in a way, their is also logic behind making a slight modification to put Premier balls back in Mart's and replace them for event prizes with balls with higher catch rates or higher catch rates for certain situations. As it sits right now, those who don't qualify for entry into events to get prizes such as Premier balls, are stacked with great balls, ultra balls, and half a dozen different specialized balls like diveballs, timer balls, quick balls, net balls, nest balls, dusk balls, etc, etc and we have already caught all we can with standard Pokeballs in-game. When our Pokemon get to lv. 50 to enter contests and finally win a Premier ball, what the heck are we going to use it on? Oh, I know, I'll post it on the trade for $999999 like everyone else, never making a sale. You see what I'm saying? They have no use in PokeMMO because the way they are doing it, that's why they need to go back into the Pokemarts for every 10 Pokeballs, or heck every 20 Pokeballs even, and replace event prizes for higher or specialized catch rate balls, so Premier Balls actually have a fundamental use in PokeMMO.

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1 hour ago, The5thHorseman said:

1. Actually it does for pokemarts,; perhaps you meant that theirs no point having them at all period, which would better fit your argument.

2. No one ever said anything about giving out necessary tools for free.

3. If you paid attention to the conversation here and what's already been said, you'd see that I addressed the the concern of balls with higher catch rates being removed from stores and replacing the Premier balls as prizes for events. Also to note the fact that having a Masterball as a prize for greater in-game events actually makes pretty good sense, considering the fact you only get 1 Masterball per Region in-game, and their are at least 32 high level legendaries available to catch in PokeMMO currently with only 4 Masterballs, and no option to save the game if you run out of say 60 ultra balls during battle or lose all 6 of your Pokemon forever losing the chance to catch one or more of those 32+ high level legendaries. Giving a Masterball out for an annual tournament or once a year at Christmas time, would take more than two decades per player to actually fit your logic for argument, therefore your view on that precise concern is irrelevant.

4. Most players catch Pokemon along their journey to the end, in most cases filling their Pokedex up with most, if not all low-level Pokemon by the time they near the end of the game or in the instance of PokeMMO lv 50 for events to get Premier balls. Almost all players are not going to go back to an area with Pokemon who's levels are week enough to catch with a Pokeball, cause we already caught them by this time, depleting the purpose of having standard Pokeballs this late in the game (including Premier balls). Having Pokemon with moves to inflict statuses to increase catch rates on higher lv. and def. stat pokemon does allow you to use standard Pokeballs and Premier balls provided a great ball or a specialized ball isn't needed, but it's completely pointless for the vast majority of players cause we've already caught them on our journeys, and your not going to use status inflictions and standard Pokeballs or Premier balls on lv. 35, 40, 45 Pokemon later in the game when you have a stack of great balls or specialized ball cause your be wasting a heck of a lot of Pokeballs, and worse Premier balls that PokeMMO has made so rare to obtain. It makes no sense whatsoever.

5. I understand this is an mmo, and I agree with you on not getting everything you want the way you want it, however I think you're missing the point here. I was expressing a more logical sensible process of tool usage for chronological application. While it is a want in a way, their is also logic behind making a slight modification to put Premier balls back in Mart's and replace them for event prizes with balls with higher catch rates or higher catch rates for certain situations. As it sits right now, those who don't qualify for entry into events to get prizes such as Premier balls, are stacked with great balls, ultra balls, and half a dozen different specialized balls like diveballs, timer balls, quick balls, net balls, nest balls, dusk balls, etc, etc and we have already caught all we can with standard Pokeballs in-game. When our Pokemon get to lv. 50 to enter contests and finally win a Premier ball, what the heck are we going to use it on? Oh, I know, I'll post it on the trade for $999999 like everyone else, never making a sale. You see what I'm saying? They have no use in PokeMMO because the way they are doing it, that's why they need to go back into the Pokemarts for every 10 Pokeballs, or heck every 20 Pokeballs even, and replace event prizes for higher or specialized catch rate balls, so Premier Balls actually have a fundamental use in PokeMMO.

There's more to catching than just filling the dex. Something that may not be immediately clear from a newer player's perspective is that Pokeballs are the most important type of item in the game's economy, even the regular ones. With breeding consuming both parents to create an egg, the competitive and shiny breeding sides of the community need a constant supply of breeders, and those breeders have to come from somewhere.

 

Pokemon are by far the most bought and sold things in the game and they're all caught or hatched into a ball paid for by their original trainer. Many of the Pokemon caught to be used in breeding are the easy ones to catch with regular balls since it's most cost-effective, so they're far from useless. Giving the player an extra percentage of their purchase for free when they buy balls would have a deceptively large impact on the values of almost everything in the game, so we'd prefer not to do that.

 

As for availability, in the same way that Premier Balls are part of your nostalgia, the specialty balls (Quick etc) are part of somebody else's, and there's more of an expectation that they're available as players want them for more than just their aesthetics. Their niches in combination with their higher price tags compared to a standard ball make them more desirable of a money sink (extremely important to mitigate inflation) for players hunting something hard to catch or just hoping to save time. People also like the way some of them look when picking a ball for their breeds.

 

Premier Ball's underwhelming catch rate, odd original obtainment method, and flavour text explicitly stating that they were made to commemorate an event is why they were chosen to be our event-exclusive ball. Master Balls are extremely difficult to balance future content around, so we'd prefer not to give out more than we already do via the storyline. If you're the type who likes to use pretty balls for the Pokemon you really care about and don't mind paying extra for them, you can purchase Premier Balls from other players who participated in the seasonal events (Halloween etc, not tournaments) they were released during via the GTL. Aesthetics have value and usefulness even if you wouldn't want to use them in the field - many players buy them despite the extra cost when they're finishing their competitive breeds or hunting for shinies.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Rache said:

There's more to catching than just filling the dex. Something that may not be immediately clear from a newer player's perspective is that Pokeballs are the most important type of item in the game's economy, even the regular ones. With breeding consuming both parents to create an egg, the competitive and shiny breeding sides of the community need a constant supply of breeders, and those breeders have to come from somewhere.

 

Pokemon are by far the most bought and sold things in the game and they're all caught or hatched into a ball paid for by their original trainer. Many of the Pokemon caught to be used in breeding are the easy ones to catch with regular balls since it's most cost-effective, so they're far from useless. Giving the player an extra percentage of their purchase for free when they buy balls would have a deceptively large impact on the values of almost everything in the game, so we'd prefer not to do that.

 

As for availability, in the same way that Premier Balls are part of your nostalgia, the specialty balls (Quick etc) are part of somebody else's, and there's more of an expectation that they're available as players want them for more than just their aesthetics. Their niches in combination with their higher price tags compared to a standard ball make them more desirable of a money sink (extremely important to mitigate inflation) for players hunting something hard to catch or just hoping to save time. People also like the way some of them look when picking a ball for their breeds.

 

Premier Ball's underwhelming catch rate, odd original obtainment method, and flavour text explicitly stating that they were made to commemorate an event is why they were chosen to be our event-exclusive ball. Master Balls are extremely difficult to balance future content around, so we'd prefer not to give out more than we already do via the storyline. If you're the type who likes to use pretty balls for the Pokemon you really care about and don't mind paying extra for them, you can purchase Premier Balls from other players who participated in the seasonal events (Halloween etc, not tournaments) they were released during via the GTL. Aesthetics have value and usefulness even if you wouldn't want to use them in the field - many players buy them despite the extra cost when they're finishing their competitive breeds or hunting for shinies.

 

 

That's an opinion your voicing though. One I would beg to differ with. Here's why:

1. A vast majority of breeders use a Ditto as one parent, and when it comes to catching Ditto you can either do so when their levels are low but uncommon in certain areas, or do so when they are higher levels and common in other areas. In short, the vast majority of breeders are using great balls and ultra balls for getting Ditto to breed a Pokemon.

2. A standard Pokeball for getting a new breeded baby from the Daycare does have its cheap advantage, that's true, however this is perhaps the only acception. However it is pretty diminished as an excuse due to most of us getting baby Pokemon over the trade system earlier in game or when we come to a point we only meet the evolved form aivailable in our point of progress in game, encouraging us to not catch it and instead buy the baby form over trade. In short most of us are getting breeded baby's over trade instead of breeding them ourselves, and those breed Pokemon come from other players who are much further along in game to afford the costs of breeding items to make a good sale of Pokemon over trade. They're not going to use a Premier ball for a baby they are going to sell to someone else, when they can use a Pokeball, especially considering how much money longer term players have who are much further along selling breeded Pokemon. This means that most Pokemon obtained, if not almost all, will not be placed in a Premier ball both for personal use (as most come from trade), as well as for sale over trade from long-time-players.

3. When it comes to breeding Pokemon, their is more than one way to get stat increases for your Pokemon, than through breeding methods.

 

As such, for these reasons, I cannot see how the breeding feature is an exception in regards to the prevention of purchasing Premier balls with every 10 Pokeballs for an MMO like this. Although that was a good try, and I agree your point does have a slight bearing, but the fraction of players of use of Premier Balls for breeding falls into less than 1/32 of all players. Which is just more reason to have this suggestion considered.

 

As for the the matter of Premier balls being to commemorate an event; it doesn't have to be removed as a gift item for holiday events necessarily, just put them back in the marts so the actually have some use in the game. 

Edited by The5thHorseman

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1 hour ago, The5thHorseman said:

That's an opinion your voicing though. One I would beg to differ with. Here's why:

1. A vast majority of breeders use a Ditto as one parent, and when it comes to catching Ditto you can either do so when their levels are low but uncommon in certain areas, or do so when they are higher levels and common in other areas. In short, the vast majority of breeders are using great balls and ultra balls for getting Ditto to breed a Pokemon.

2. A standard Pokeball for getting a new breeded baby from the Daycare does have its cheap advantage, that's true, however this is perhaps the only acception. However it is pretty diminished as an excuse due to most of us getting baby Pokemon over the trade system earlier in game or when we come to a point we only meet the evolved form aivailable in our point of progress in game, encouraging us to not catch it and instead buy the baby form over trade. In short most of us are getting breeded baby's over trade instead of breeding them ourselves, and those breed Pokemon come from other players who are much further along in game to afford the costs of breeding items to make a good sale of Pokemon over trade. They're not going to use a Premier ball for a baby they are going to sell to someone else, when they can use a Pokeball, especially considering how much money longer term players have who are much further along selling breeded Pokemon. This means that most Pokemon obtained, if not almost all, will not be placed in a Premier ball both for personal use (as most come from trade), as well as for sale over trade from long-time-players.

3. When it comes to breeding Pokemon, their is more than one way to get stat increases for your Pokemon, than through breeding methods.

 

As such, for these reasons, I cannot see how the breeding feature is an exception in regards to the prevention of purchasing Premier balls with every 10 Pokeballs for an MMO like this. Although that was a good try, and I agree your point does have a slight bearing, but the fraction of players of use of Premier Balls for breeding falls into less than 1/32 of all players. Which is just more reason to have this suggestion considered.

 

As for the the matter of Premier balls being to commemorate an event; it doesn't have to be removed as a gift item for holiday events necessarily, just put them back in the marts so the actually have some use in the game. 

Although Ditto is versatile, most competitive breeders tend to avoid reliance on it for their personal usage due to the prohibitive price of both catching them and buying them from other players compared to other species, usually preferring common and easily caught Pokemon in the egg group of what they're trying to breed. Magikarp is a pretty good example that a lot of players catch and sell in large numbers to breed with anything in the Dragon or Water 2 egg groups, you'll see a lot of them with multiple perfect stats on the GTL and find a lot of people catching them in the wild if you look in the right places.

 

When breeding a Pokemon with a standard gender ratio, Ditto is very rarely going to be the cheapest Pokemon with the stats you need. It's also unable to breed with itself, making it even more expensive to rely on exclusively, especially if you're trying to breed flawless Pokemon. It doesn't learn anything so can't pass egg moves either unless the other parent already knows them. Ditto sees most of its usage with the few competitive male-only species that can't breed with anything else, a few other Pokemon that have limited options (genderless), the early stages of breeds with expensive female gender selection (starters etc), swapping the gender on a male that you need turned into a female, and with shiny breeders who rebreed the same rare Pokemon over and over until one hatches shiny.

 

Breeding is the absolute only way to improve a Pokemon's IVs, there are no bottle caps here (or plans to undermine breeding by introducing them). Although regular Pokeballs may become less useful over time to players who only care about storyline content and the dex, they never stop being useful to the players who stick around long-term and really participate in the economy.

 

Premier Ball's current niche is its looks and as a minor status symbol, and that's okay. People like customizing their Pokemon, and the ball is one of the few ways they can. Although they may not be objectively good compared to other balls (currently on par with Great Ball), we definitely won't be giving them away for free at marts. The extra ball per 10 (or 20, or 50, or 99) may not make a huge difference when it's a single player, but it adds up very quickly when thousands of players are regularly buying hundreds at a time.

 

Spoiler

Level also isn't part of the base catch rate formula and never has been (unless using a Nest/Level Ball). Early-game species just tend to have high catch rates compared to late-game ones.

 

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11 minutes ago, Rache said:

Although Ditto is versatile, most competitive breeders tend to avoid reliance on it for their personal usage due to the prohibitive price of both catching them and buying them from other players compared to other species, usually preferring common and easily caught Pokemon in the egg group of what they're trying to breed. Magikarp is a pretty good example that a lot of players catch and sell in large numbers to breed with anything in the Dragon or Water 2 egg groups, you'll see a lot of them with multiple perfect stats on the GTL and find a lot of people catching them in the wild if you look in the right places.

 

When breeding a Pokemon with a standard gender ratio, Ditto is very rarely going to be the cheapest Pokemon with the stats you need. It's also unable to breed with itself, making it even more expensive to rely on exclusively, especially if you're trying to breed flawless Pokemon. It doesn't learn anything so can't pass egg moves either unless the other parent already knows them. Ditto sees most of its usage with the few competitive male-only species that can't breed with anything else, a few other Pokemon that have limited options (genderless), the early stages of breeds with expensive female gender selection (starters etc), swapping the gender on a male that you need turned into a female, and with shiny breeders who rebreed the same rare Pokemon over and over until one hatches shiny.

 

Breeding is the absolute only way to improve a Pokemon's IVs, there are no bottle caps here (or plans to undermine breeding by introducing them). Although regular Pokeballs may become less useful over time to players who only care about storyline content and the dex, they never stop being useful to the players who stick around long-term and really participate in the economy.

 

Premier Ball's current niche is its looks and as a minor status symbol, and that's okay. People like customizing their Pokemon, and the ball is one of the few ways they can. Although they may not be objectively good compared to other balls (currently on par with Great Ball), we definitely won't be giving them away for free at marts. The extra ball per 10 (or 20, or 50, or 99) may not make a huge difference when it's a single player, but it adds up very quickly when thousands of players are regularly buying hundreds at a time.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Level also isn't part of the base catch rate formula and never has been (unless using a Nest/Level Ball). Early-game species just tend to have high catch rates compared to late-game ones.

 

Well then at least send a recommendation to the devs for me of introducing a feature to allow players to change the kind of Pokeball for a Pokemon then, if someone wants one of their Pokemon to be in a Premier ball later.

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2 hours ago, Rache said:

Although Ditto is versatile, most competitive breeders tend to avoid reliance on it for their personal usage due to the prohibitive price of both catching them and buying them from other players compared to other species, usually preferring common and easily caught Pokemon in the egg group of what they're trying to breed. Magikarp is a pretty good example that a lot of players catch and sell in large numbers to breed with anything in the Dragon or Water 2 egg groups, you'll see a lot of them with multiple perfect stats on the GTL and find a lot of people catching them in the wild if you look in the right places.

 

When breeding a Pokemon with a standard gender ratio, Ditto is very rarely going to be the cheapest Pokemon with the stats you need. It's also unable to breed with itself, making it even more expensive to rely on exclusively, especially if you're trying to breed flawless Pokemon. It doesn't learn anything so can't pass egg moves either unless the other parent already knows them. Ditto sees most of its usage with the few competitive male-only species that can't breed with anything else, a few other Pokemon that have limited options (genderless), the early stages of breeds with expensive female gender selection (starters etc), swapping the gender on a male that you need turned into a female, and with shiny breeders who rebreed the same rare Pokemon over and over until one hatches shiny.

 

Breeding is the absolute only way to improve a Pokemon's IVs, there are no bottle caps here (or plans to undermine breeding by introducing them). Although regular Pokeballs may become less useful over time to players who only care about storyline content and the dex, they never stop being useful to the players who stick around long-term and really participate in the economy.

 

Premier Ball's current niche is its looks and as a minor status symbol, and that's okay. People like customizing their Pokemon, and the ball is one of the few ways they can. Although they may not be objectively good compared to other balls (currently on par with Great Ball), we definitely won't be giving them away for free at marts. The extra ball per 10 (or 20, or 50, or 99) may not make a huge difference when it's a single player, but it adds up very quickly when thousands of players are regularly buying hundreds at a time.

 

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Level also isn't part of the base catch rate formula and never has been (unless using a Nest/Level Ball). Early-game species just tend to have high catch rates compared to late-game ones.

 

I replied back earlier requesting you forward a suggestion of allowing the option of changing a Pokemon's ball to make better use of Premier balls in PokeMMO. However, I didn't want to leave any loose ends open with your reply regarding breeding stats and IVs.

 

When I had stated there is more than one way to get better stats, and you replied in regards to the IVs in breeding, it must be remembered that each Pokemon and each level of evolution of each Pokemon have a stat cap. IVs only determine the allocation and value increase per stat category. You can have a Pokemon with poor IVs and still max it's stats out with items. IVs do not increase a Pokemon's stat cap, IVs only determine which stat gets more gains, and how many gains per stat category. In fact it might even be cheaper doing it by items alone compared to breeding.

 

But if PokeMMO is not interested in this recommendation, albeit without reason, at least allow the option to switch Pokemon into another ball, such as Premier ball, so they aren't completely pointless in PokeMMO.

Edited by The5thHorseman

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36 minutes ago, The5thHorseman said:

I replied back earlier requesting you forward a suggestion of allowing the option of changing a Pokemon's ball to make better use of Premier balls in PokeMMO. However, I didn't want to leave any loose ends open with your reply regarding breeding stats and IVs.

 

When I had stated there is more than one way to get better stats, and you replied in regards to the IVs in breeding, it must be remembered that each Pokemon and each level of evolution of each Pokemon have a stat cap. IVs only determine the allocation and value increase per stat category. You can have a Pokemon with poor IVs and still max it's stats out with items. IVs do not increase a Pokemon's stat cap, IVs only determine which stat gets more gains, and how many gains per stat category. In fact it might even be cheaper doing it by items alone compared to breeding.

 

But if PokeMMO is not interested in this recommendation, albeit without reason, at least allow the option to switch Pokemon into another ball, such as Premier ball, so they aren't completely pointless in PokeMMO.

That isn't how stats work.

 

The way a Pokemon's stats are calculated are based on:

-The Pokemon's base stats. This is what gives Charizard higher stats than Charmander on the same level.

-The Pokemon's IVs. These are its genes, and cannot be altered, ranging from 0-31 in each stat.

-The Pokemon's EVs. This is how it's trained, with a maximum of 510 points in total, with a maximum of 252 in any stat. This is what vitamins increase, by 10 points for a regular one.

-The Pokemon's nature. This is a flat +10% in one stat and -10% in another, or no change with certain ones.

-The Pokemon's level.

 

Let's compare two Pokemon that are identical in everything that impacts stats with the exception of IVs.

image.png.aed2c12500d5309dcae179abae33415b.png

My Jolteon is the one on the left. Her IVs are 29/12/31/31/30/31, very high in the stats that matter. The one on the right is on the GTL right now, and his IVs are 2/4/15/28/11/31.

They're both lv100, timid natured (+speed -attack), with 252 EVs in speed, 252 EVs in special attack, and 6 EVs in defense. As you can see, they're quite different despite having been raised the same way. A Pokemon with poor IVs is incapable of reaching the same stats as one with better IVs.

 

Ball switching is a reasonable suggestion if you'd like to support the threads already requesting it.

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58 minutes ago, Rache said:

That isn't how stats work.

 

The way a Pokemon's stats are calculated are based on:

-The Pokemon's base stats. This is what gives Charizard higher stats than Charmander on the same level.

-The Pokemon's IVs. These are its genes, and cannot be altered, ranging from 0-31 in each stat.

-The Pokemon's EVs. This is how it's trained, with a maximum of 510 points in total, with a maximum of 252 in any stat. This is what vitamins increase, by 10 points for a regular one.

-The Pokemon's nature. This is a flat +10% in one stat and -10% in another, or no change with certain ones.

-The Pokemon's level.

 

Let's compare two Pokemon that are identical in everything that impacts stats with the exception of IVs.

image.png.aed2c12500d5309dcae179abae33415b.png

My Jolteon is the one on the left. Her IVs are 29/12/31/31/30/31, very high in the stats that matter. The one on the right is on the GTL right now, and his IVs are 2/4/15/28/11/31.

They're both lv100, timid natured (+speed -attack), with 252 EVs in speed, 252 EVs in special attack, and 6 EVs in defense. As you can see, they're quite different despite having been raised the same way. A Pokemon with poor IVs is incapable of reaching the same stats as one with better IVs.

 

Ball switching is a reasonable suggestion if you'd like to support the threads already requesting it.

I'm well aware of how stats work miss Rache, I've been strongly playing Pokemon for 20 years since it first came out. Each Pokemon and each form of each Pokemon has a maximum stat cap per stat category. Breeding is not the only way to max a Pokemon out to it's max stats. That's all I'm saying. Every Pokemon has a different stat cap per stat category, IVs do not determine or alter a stat cap of Pokemon.

 

A stat cap is the maximum allotted stat number per stat of a given Pokemon. Their are varrious ways to raise stats, but the fundamental stat cap per stat per given Pokemon is unchangeable, although it may vary from one Pokemon to another. Take two Pokemon of the exact same kind, say Pikachu for example, both Pikachu's have a stat cap that are identicle. One Pikachu's evolved from a Pichu that was breed with max IVs, while the other Pikachu was obtained in the wild and maxed out with items to raise the base stats, both Pikachu's will each reach a maximum total stat cap upon leveling up, and that total maximum stat cap is identicle between the same Pokemon.

 

IVs do not raise a Pokemons total stat cap. Each pokeman can be maxed out by different methods, not just by breeding. You're talking about stat differences per category, I'm talking about total stat caps per Pokemon. In your picture, those stats are different due to the IVs re-allocating a portion of the total allotted stats per total stat cap per Pokemon.

 

 

Edited by The5thHorseman

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18 minutes ago, powerdrib said:

so that must mean that iv's are not needed. than please tell us why every competitive player uses high iv pokemon

Perhaps they find it fun to breed? Perhaps it's easier for them? Perhaps it's an easy way to get high stats of Pokemon when raising them?

 

The concept of IVs never played any role in Pokemon in Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald including if you traded between FireRed, LeafGreen, Colosseum, XD Gale of Darkness, also in Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, Heartgold and SoulSilver. The concept of leveling up and max stating Pokemon has always been possible in these games when IVs didn't exist as an option when breeding, and considering you can transfer max stat pokemon from these games up to the newer generations, it's safe to say that the IV feature that's been thrown into Pokemon does not change the total max stat per Pokemon or per stat category per Pokemon; it only serve as a means to have a higher state allottage per particular stat.

 

So when breeding, it's still important if you want one stat or a couple stat categories to be higher than others, but those IVs are going to hit the stat cap per stat per Pokemon when leveling them up depending on their IV per stat. But it plays no role on the total stat cap per Pokemon, only by stat differences of a Pokemon during leveling it up; it's also an alternative to items increasing the base stat of a Pokemon. It's a matter of choice, but it's not pointless. It's a unique creation.

Edited by The5thHorseman

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On 9/12/2020 at 10:28 AM, The5thHorseman said:

Also when helping the Devon Researcher he gives you a Great ball instead of a Premier ball

 

On 9/12/2020 at 10:51 AM, The5thHorseman said:

Premier Balls may have the same catch rate as Pokeball

image.png.5430ec571b79e7a1e24d4b964a78eade.png

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Alright, I think thats where we draw a line. Discussing ideas is one thing, but insulting each other or assuming someone's inteligence is just bad arguing, you all. 


We will not change premier balls mechanics most likely- they are fine as a prizes from events and the add to economy. They are desired by shiny hunters and just trainers for their looks. To add to this, 1.5x catch rate makes them useable while also looking nicely, actively making it nice item to get from event.

Giving them free in marts would take this away imo. 

 


That being said I will close this thread now. 

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