PokeMMO Breeder Market

[Philcomm]

Good evening fellow catchers, I hope you are doing well (as good as it can be considering the current global situation).

 

Before I get to the interesting part, let me introduce myself and why I am writing this post.

 

My name is Philipp, or Philcomm in PokeMMO. I am a software developer located in Germany. I played PokeMMO for a couple of years now as a member of the german Team ÁvE and I am still a huge fan of the project.

In my free time, I work on a lot of development projects in different fields, one of them has to do with PokeMMO.

 

Let's get to the interesting part.

 

In my time playing PokeMMO, I bred a couple of Comps for others and myself. I also ordered some from others. But this always happened inside my team, because I felt like the tools necessary to create a global breeder market are just not good enough.

 

So I came up with an idea to make the breeder market a bit more competitive. Where breeders can see a lot more requests than just in their team.

 

I present: The PokeMMO breeder market.

 

This is a website based application that helps out the two roles, buyer and breeder. The goal is to create a much better market experience for both, the customer and the breeder. For that, I sat down with some Breeders such as CaptnBaklava, to create a system that makes sense.

 

To give you a better understanding of how the system works, I created a workflow overview that gives inside for both roles.

 

1. A customer creates an Order. The Order contains info about the Pokemon the customer wants. These include:

   - Which Pokemon

   - Level (for now, you can only choose 50 or 100, this will change in the future)

   - Nature

   - Ability

   - Held Item

   - 4 Moves (this is subject to change, I got tester feedback that sometimes there are more than 4 egg moves wanted)

   - 6 IVs

   - 6 EVs

2. Once the Order is created, everyone can see the Order listed in the public section

3. Breeders then can give Offers. These contain how much the breeder will charge when doing this breed, and how long it will take the breeder in days

4. Once there are a good amount of offers, the customer then can pick an offer. Once an offer is picked, the Order gets removed from the public section. From now on it is only visible for the Breeder and the Customer

5. The breeder now starts breeding the pokemon. While doing that, the breeder can update the status of the Order. The available states are:

   - accepted (default)

   - starting (to use when the breeder actually starts breeding)

   - breeding (while in the breeding process)

   - leveling (self explaining?)

   - finishing (prepare the Order for the customer to pick up)

6. When the state of an Order is set to "Finishing", the breeder has the ability to mark the order as finished by clicking the "Finish Order" button. This gives the Customer the signal that his order is ready for pickup

7. After an Order is marked as finished, the Customer now has the ability to use the "Close Order" button, to ..., well, close the order. Closed Orders are not visible anymore, neither to the Customer nor the Breeder.

 

To make it a bit simpler for you to see what the advantages are for each role, I listed them below

 

Breeder

1. Wider Range

   Customers, customers and customers... and more customers.

   With this tool, you will get a lot more Orders.

2. Easy Order Management
   The Breeder Market makes it very easy to manage your open orders

 

Customer

1. A competitive market
   You have the decision of which Offer you accept. Since the Breeder doesn't know what other Breeders offered, they probably want to offer you the best price possible
2. Order states
   You can see your order's state. It is like ordering a package and having a tracking tool

 

 

That was a lot of text, I know. You now probably want to take a look at it, and you can.

 

But before you do, here are some things you should know:

• The Breeder Market is in Beta state, meaning there might be bugs. The more bugs you submit to me and the more details these bug reports contain, the faster I can fix them and improve the experience for you.
• The databases are pretty secure. But we have all been there that a service we use has a data breach and our passwords are leaked. To prevent this, please consider using a random generated password. If you dont wanna bother remembering it, you can use a password manager like 1Password or LastPass.
• The databases are not stress tested yet. I don't expect too many users to use this in the beginning. If I am wrong, and the databases won't hold up, I will very quickly switch to a better solution.
• The styling is not final. I am aware that the styling is not the best, I am not a designer, I am a software developer. Your day job is designer? Feel free to reach out to me.
• The app's styling is only tested on newer browsers (Chrome, Opera, Edge, Safari etc.), I don't expect the app to be styled properly on Internet Explorer. Please don't ask for Internet Explorer support, since this would be a lot of work (more than you would expect).

 

If you have feedback for me, feel free to submit it via the forum as a private message.

Feedback about the user experience or improvements for both Customer and Breeder site are highly appreciated.

 

To create an account, please use your PokeMMO Username as the Username, so the Breeder/Customer can write you ingame. Please do NOT use your PokeMMO password though.

An in-platform message system is in the work, but not ready yet.

 

I think after all the reading (hope you did), you earned the link to the application: https://breedermarket.philcomm.dev/

 

Don't worry, mobile optimization is on the way, give me some time.

 

If you wonder what is planned for the future, here are some features that will be added (order not relevant):

 

• Order filtering
• Better Pokemon Selection
• Notifications
• Rating System
• Export Customization
• Comment system

 

If you have domain suggestions, I am also open for that (don't suggest breedermarket.com, that is already in use)

 

Feel also free to give me your opinion on this:

 

I thought about introducing an alternative registration system, in which the server chooses your password. So you enter the email and username, and the server returns you the password. This way, even if this service gets hacked, passwords are safe since they are generated by the server, not by you, and it is very unlikely that you have the same password for another website.

I know that this system might be a bit inconvenient for some of you, thats why I am recommending using a password manager. What do you think? Let me know

Stay safe and I hope you enjoy what I created

PS: I tried to upload images, but the system doesn't let me upload all of them (even though they are less than 1.95MB together) :(

Edited September 10, 2020 by Philcomm

[Oldenman]

Can't wait to try this out mate! looks great! one lil bug I've found though, the relaxed nature is gone (+def-speed)

[Philcomm]

7 minutes ago, Oldenman said:

Can't wait to try this out mate! looks great! one lil bug I've found though, the relaxed nature is gone (+def-speed)

Currently, the app is getting the information from an external service, which is designed for the main games. If you can send me a full list of natures, that would be great

[EricRasp]

I doubt this would be welcomed with open hearts by the breeding shop community since the main people this is useful for is customers. This would promote a lot of undercutting which just sucks for the breeding shop community. 

 

4 hours ago, Philcomm said:

Wider Range

Customers, customers and customers... and more customers.

With this tool, you will get a lot more Orders.

 

Not really. Speaking from personal experience, most of my customers come to me by word of mouth or by recommendations. 

 

4 hours ago, Philcomm said:

Easy Order Management
The Breeder Market makes it very easy to manage your open orders

I mean it's not like we are having a hard time managing it right now. All the orders are in the mail and you can just open it to check the specifics at anytime. Hannah probably has the highest order volume so I think only she can really tell if this is true or not. I've found this to be a non-issue.

 

4 hours ago, Philcomm said:

- Level (for now, you can only choose 50 or 100, this will change in the future)

Not all breeders offer a ev training or leveling service. It's just me and Redmare rn I think. Most people don't have the time to juggle both. 

 

4 hours ago, Philcomm said:

(this is subject to change, I got tester feedback that sometimes there are more than 4 egg moves wanted)

?? You can only get 4 egg moves since there is only a slot for 4. :shrug: 

----------------------------------------------------

 

GL with this though. Let's see how it turns out. 

[senzui]

Hope this makes the market more competitive

[Quinn010]

first of all idk what the point of this to steal orders ?? but whatever i give it a try.

  and i think there is a bug i clicked 423.000 and it says 423 now little weird  

[Philcomm]

1 hour ago, Quinn010 said:

first of all idk what the point of this to steal orders ?? but whatever i give it a try.

  and i think there is a bug i clicked 423.000 and it says 423 now little weird  

The dot is considered as a decimal seperator.

 

The idea of this market is to give small breeders a platform to reach more customers.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Philcomm

[Philcomm]

12 hours ago, EricRasp said:

Not all breeders offer a ev training or leveling service. It's just me and Redmare rn I think. Most people don't have the time to juggle both.

As the breeder, you have the choice to offer only to the breeds you wanna do. If you don't wanna do leveling, don't create offers.

I also released a small patch which adds a level 1 option. If a customer doesn't want a breed leveled, the option is now there.

I understand that this doesn't seem very attractive to Breeders. You will still keep your core clients. But for smaller breeders that don't have a lot of reputation, this might be a good way to get more customers.

 

If you have ideas/suggestions how to make this system better for breeders, let me know. I welcome any feedback I can get

[EricRasp]

32 minutes ago, Philcomm said:

The idea of this market is to give small breeders a platform to reach more customers.

While your intentions are pure and commendable, all this system creates is a vicious cycle of undercutting or even worse no participation at all because it is such a hassle. 

 

The main reason why new shop owners fail is not because they don't get enough customers, it's because they don't work for it or because they are temporarily poor and just needed some quick cash. You gotta put in the time and work. 

 

28 minutes ago, Philcomm said:

If you have ideas/suggestions how to make this system better for breeders, let me know. I welcome any feedback I can get

Sadly, I can't think of any way to make this better for breeders as the odds are stacked against us. 

 

Oh well :shrug:

[razimove]

I rather dislike this idea, Eric points stand correct.

[n0xor]

FTF: Thank you for all the work you put into the App! Much appreciate it!

 

4 hours ago, razimove said:

I rather dislike this idea, Eric points stand correct.

May I ask which points? I'll just put out some logic on all of them and then you can tell me which ones still hold...
 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 10:24 PM, EricRasp said:

Not really. Speaking from personal experience, most of my customers come to me by word of mouth or by recommendations. 

Was there something like this before? I do not now of anything like this besides this forum... And there you ask for ppl to Ingame message you, no wonder though all your customers come from there. But you mention you have personal experience on Breeding Market Websites, mind to share? That way Philcomm migth learn a thing or two and can avaoid making the same mistakes with his market, leading to (hopfully) better experiences.
Personally, I think this market is a great opportunity  for (new) breeders who want more customers. It's just another sale channel, the old ones still exist...

 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 10:24 PM, EricRasp said:

I mean it's not like we are having a hard time managing it right now. All the orders are in the mail and you can just open it to check the specifics at anytime. Hannah probably has the highest order volume so I think only she can really tell if this is true or not. I've found this to be a non-issue.

You seem to miss something here! Order management is not a "Todo-List", that thing was already solved with Papyrus back in like 3,000 BC. (Or walls in 30,000 BC)
You can set states like "breeding", "leveling", ... so (you and) your customer knows exactly what is going on. Of course you could just chat with your customer, but I made the experience timezones (and sometimes language) makes it a bit hard to reach out to someone.
 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 10:24 PM, EricRasp said:

Not all breeders offer a ev training or leveling service. It's just me and Redmare rn I think. Most people don't have the time to juggle both. 

Nice of him to include that in orders just for the both of you, isn't it?
I bet that the breeder CaptnBaklava that Philcomm mentioned does, too!

But if 'you' (the breeder using the app) does not offer something, eg genderless breeding or ev+lvl, just do not place an offer at any request requesting that...

 

On the other hand, can learn about customer wishes and extend your business model accordingly. That is one of the advantages of such a market.

 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 10:24 PM, EricRasp said:

?? You can only get 4 egg moves since there is only a slot for 4. :shrug: 

???? Didn't you read what you quoted, he will change that!!?!!
 

11 hours ago, EricRasp said:

The main reason why new shop owners fail is not because they don't get enough customers, it's because they don't work for it or because they are temporarily poor and just needed some quick cash. You gotta put in the time and work. 

 

From now on you do not need to put the work of setting up a custom shop page, keeping it at the top, updating it, ... into beeing a breeder..! You just place a few offers on requests, get orders and than breed. I think this was kind of the point of the app, not having to manually look for orders, just have them right there.

Sidenode: didn't the guys wanting quick cash win instead of fail, the moment they leave business, having the cash in their pokets?

 

11 hours ago, EricRasp said:

While your intentions are pure and commendable, all this system creates is a vicious cycle of undercutting

Did you even checked out the website he posted? I mean, how should that 'creates is a vicious cycle of undercutting'? For real, did you check it, you definetly should...

He seemd to designe it the opposite of how Amazon is designed! No one (except the one person you offered to) will ever see your offer. How should that make ppl undercut each other??? You don't know which is best / worst / whatever offer... Never...

Please check out his app for real, after defaming his work so badly you at least owe him that.




Coming to my own feedback now:
Great idea, simple and minimalistic design, love it! Can't wait till more breeder and customers use it! (and 4 egg moves are enough in most cases I think)

Edited September 11, 2020 by n0xor

[EricRasp]

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

But you mention you have personal experience on Breeding Market Websites, mind to share?

The personal experience I meant is one that of being a breeder who has a shop. 

 

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

You seem to miss something here! Order management is not a "Todo-List", that thing was already solved with Papyrus back in like 3,000 BC. (Or walls in 30,000 BC)
You can set states like "breeding", "leveling", ... so (you and) your customer knows exactly what is going on. Of course you could just chat with your customer, but I made the experience timezones (and sometimes language) makes it a bit hard to reach out to someone.

You seem to be the one missing something here. If the customer wants to know exactly what is happening then you just whisper them with updates or send them a mail. This is just unwanted sophistry that would just be a pain to keep up. 

 

And how are you going to fix the language barrier? We all know google translate does jack. So, we just face reality and accept the fact that if someone doesn't have even a basic understanding of English then it is not possible to continue. 

 

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

I bet that the breeder CaptnBaklava that Philcomm mentioned does, too!

If you knew anything about Baklava's service you would know that he does not have a leveling service. 

 

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

???? Didn't you read what you quoted, he will change that!!?!!

Is he going to become a dev and change the code to allow us to have more than 4 egg moves? I'd love to see that!

 

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

From now on you do not need to put the work of setting up a custom shop page, keeping it at the top, updating it, ... into beeing a breeder..! You just place a few offers on requests, get orders and than breed. I think this was kind of the point of the app, not having to manually look for orders, just have them right there.

Sidenode: didn't the guys wanting quick cash win instead of fail, the moment they leave business, having the cash in their pokets?

The reason we have a forum page and we keep updating it is because it boosts our reputation as trustworthy shops that you can do business with and not get subpar outcomes. 

 

If someone comes out of nowhere as says he will breed for you and take 300k+ of your money, will you trust them? Especially since this program is outside of Pokemmo. If they are a scam or a fraud then there is no accountability.

 

This is the issue with a 3rd party software. There are no set rules. 

 

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

No one (except the one person you offered to) will ever see your offer. How should that make ppl undercut each other???

That is a very good point, I did not know of this. If this is so, then kudos. The undercutting problem is solved.

 

5 hours ago, n0xor said:

Please check out his app for real, after defaming his work so badly you at least owe him that.

I don't think you know the difference between constructive criticism and defaming. 

 

Anyway ... I'll stop here. GL anyway on the project, Phil. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by EricRasp
Updated some info

[Philcomm]

I just added a small update which overhauls the natures. They now show stat modifiers

[nestle014]

cool. ill certainly try this