JakeB Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I spent a lot of time breeding my competitive team and Garchomp was the pokemon I built my team around. I understand banning Sand Veil, but now Garchomp is an Uber and I can't use him? Why?! Link to comment
EazyL Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 what could i tell you ¯\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)_/¯ I think that more than one user has been bothered that garchomp is now uber, really something inneseraio, there are counters (Hippowdon, mandibuzz, Skarmory, Rotom wash (HP Ice) among others) thank you Tier council! Link to comment
LeZenor Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Blame @gbwead the Antichrist TheBeldumMaster, CristiDOX, Moi and 6 others 9 Link to comment
EazyL Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, LeZenor said: Blame @gbwead the Antichrist lmao hahahaha Link to comment
Seth Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Hello, @JakeB You can find the answers via this thread: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/125560-september-movement-discussion-thread/ Have a nice day. Link to comment
pachima Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, EazyL said: what could i tell you ¯\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)_/¯ I think that more than one user has been bothered that garchomp is now uber, really something inneseraio, there are counters (Hippowdon, mandibuzz, Skarmory, Rotom wash (HP Ice) among others) thank you Tier council! Only mandibuzz effectively counters garchomp out of that bunch. Not trying to justify anything, just pointing out facts. Link to comment
EazyL Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, pachima said: Only mandibuzz effectively counters garchomp out of that bunch. Not trying to justify anything, just pointing out facts. for me it was not a threat, I was able to stop garchomp without any problem bcool and JakeB 1 1 Link to comment
TohnR Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pachima said: Only mandibuzz effectively counters garchomp out of that bunch. It's a lie, Mandibuzz loses to SD Stone Edge with Scope Lens (50% crit with last gens mechanics we have) +2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz on a critical hit: 240-284 (110.5 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Edited September 8, 2020 by TohnR Trolling obviously but I've been facing that in a 100$ smogon tournament last weekend that's why I mentionned it :') Link to comment
Quinn010 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, TohnR said: It's a lie, Mandibuzz loses to SD Stone Edge with Scope Lens (50% crit with last gens mechanics we have) +2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz on a critical hit: 240-284 (110.5 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO bruh you expose my garchomp set :catcrying: Link to comment
JakeB Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Sethsen said: Hello, @JakeB You can find the answers via this thread: https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/125560-september-movement-discussion-thread/ Have a nice day. I mean it's a great pokemon, but it's not like it ever guarantees you a win nor is it so hard to beat. I usually don't even need my Garchomp to take care of opposing Garchomps, I rarely struggle with them. If you can't beat it, change your strategy. That's how I feel. HermitG 1 Link to comment
JakeB Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 My team used to struggle greatly against Condeldurr, Scizor, Gliscor, and Skarmory. So I had to change my strategy a bit to beat them. That's how it goes. With opposing Garchomps, I wouldn't even need to use my Garchomp to win. I would toxic it and put out a pokemon that can take a hit. Then when it's weak I'd knock it out with a priority move. To make it an Uber is just a great exaggeration. Link to comment
senzui Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Yo I also easily countered Garchomp with my Mandibuzz and Umbreon please remove from Ubers JakeB 1 Link to comment
Huargensy Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 14 minutes ago, senzui said: Yo también contrarresté fácilmente a Garchomp con mi Mandibuzz y Umbreon, elimínelo de Uber Curious fact: The foul play at +2 has a chance to hold, that's why mandibuzz's rocky helmet influences haha gbwead 1 Link to comment
Frag Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 4 hours ago, TohnR said: It's a lie, Mandibuzz loses to SD Stone Edge with Scope Lens (50% crit with last gens mechanics we have) +2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz on a critical hit: 240-284 (110.5 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO life orb 1hko, dunno why ppl still thinking yache was broken, life orb just 1hko everything, even 252/252 gastrodon, i used to play magne + eq stone claw, that was the real shit., and yea nobody uses shed on skar anyway. razimove and pachima 2 Link to comment
razimove Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 15 hours ago, EazyL said: for me it was not a threat, I was able to stop garchomp without any problem pls tell me how, I really am curious. Link to comment
XelaKebert Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Seems to be a misunderstanding of what qualifies as Uber and what doesn't in here. First Point: The existence of a few counters does not negate something being classified as Uber. Just about everything has a counter if you dig enough. The crux of this comes on being able to /reliably/, and I cannot stress that enough, counter a given threat. Second Point: The existences of a few /reliable/, or even "reliable", counters to a given threat does not negate something being classified as Uber either. Part of the Smogon, I know hahaha, definition of Uber is as follows, "A Pokemon is considered Uber if it is too powerful to be reasonably handled within the bounds of the standard metagame. Uber status is determined by this factor alone; it does not matter if a Pokemon is worthless in the Ubers tier, or if it is outclassed by anything already in Ubers." The operative word in that quote is /reasonably/. This means that if you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to handle a very specific threat, it /might/ be considered to be Uber. Operative word being /might/ as that classification comes after discussion on the matter and through the availability of usage data. In general, a Pokemon that is Uber is something that /requires/ a very specific builds to counter. At a deeper level, an Uber Pokemon is capable of walling or sweeping a good chunk of the meta with very little resistance. That last part is the big problem. When a specific Pokemon is OP to the point that you either have to run it or one of the few reliable counters/checks to be viable in comp, that is a large problem. An Uber Pokemon is one that is problematic enough that you have to build around it in some manner, which is also read as over-centralizing. This is something that should be avoided as much as possible. Once upon a time Snorlax was Uber along with Gengar and Salamence. The circumstances for something to be placed into Uber tier will vary depending on the state of the meta at a given point in time. An Uber classification is something that is not necessarily permanent and the devs are working to try and avoid having anything classified as Uber period. Unfortunately, until they find a means of accomplishing that without nerfing a Pokemon into the ground, there will be instances where something might be classed as Uber. On that note: The existence of an Uber tier, or lack thereof, does seem to be a big point of contention. Honestly, I do get why. On the one hand the devs want to allow you as a player to be able to use the comps you make since they are costly and they feel it is a poor design to lock away a few for being OP if they can make them not OP. On the other hand, I do agree that pruning off the OP pieces of a given Pokemon, if it would otherwise be classed to Uber, is shortsighted and does harm the meta when it cannot be removed easily if it is a large problem. Personally, I do think there is some middle ground to be had between the two sides wherein a Uber tier can still exist for the sake of containing Pokemon that either require too many nerfs to make them not OP or ones that, despite having certain aspects removed, are still somehow too OP for OU. Unfortunately, this would also require discussion as to whether or not failed changes to Pokemon in an effort to make them not OP should be reverted if they are going to be Uber anyway. This is what I see from my limited comp knowledge. Feel free to scream at me if I messed something up or have something wrong somewhere. pachima 1 Link to comment
EazyL Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 4 hours ago, razimove said: pls tell me how, I really am curious. with the emons that i mentioned first Link to comment
Huargensy Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, EazyL said: with the emons that i mentioned first I'll be brief, hippowdon gets 2hit k.o from eq to +2, the only thing it will do is put a roar, here comes the random, if you get something that forces you to change that hippowdon it will end up being food for garchomp when it comes back in 2-.Skarmory is not as reliable if it carries fire blast, which I have seen, like Frags garchomp which is sd and fire blast 3: rotom does not lower it from hp ice even if it does not have a yache berry, it will only be food for a garchomp at +2 Edited September 9, 2020 by Huargensy Jorel 1 Link to comment
ProfesorEinsteinnn Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, EazyL said: with the emons that i mentioned first I stopped Garchomp with Exeggcute Eviolite ez uwu Edited September 9, 2020 by ProfesorEinsteinnn Huargensy, MendeeZ and pachima 2 1 Link to comment
EazyL Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 minute ago, ProfesorEinsteinnn said: I stopped Garchomp with Exeggcute ez uwu you are a crack <33 3 minutes ago, Huargensy said: I'm going to be brief, hippowdon gets 2hit k.o from eq to +2, the only thing it will do is put a roar, here comes the random, if you get something that forces it to change that hippowdon it will end up being food for chomp when it comes back in 2-.Skarmory is not as reliable if it carries fire blast, which I have seen, like Frags garchomp which is sd and fire blast 3: rotom does not bring it down from hp ice or carrying yache berry, just be food for a garchomp at +2 ¯\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)_/¯ Link to comment
Huargensy Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 @gbwead I ask to raise shedinja to OU because it is a counter of the garchomp sub SD set Link to comment
DarylDixon Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 @gbwead man , those mortals guy still doesnt know when something is broken Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Edited September 9, 2020 by OrangeManiac pachima, Quakkz, Kamowanthere and 7 others 10 Link to comment
razimove Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 3 hours ago, EazyL said: with the emons that i mentioned first None of those are counters and aside from mandibuzz or umbreon being full hp, none of those check him either. Link to comment
EazyL Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, razimove said: None of those are counters and aside from mandibuzz or umbreon being full hp, none of those check him either. I stopped Garchomp with those mons Link to comment
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