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Why is Garchomp an Uber???


JakeB

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what could i tell you ¯\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)_/¯

 

I think that more than one user has been bothered that garchomp is now uber, really something inneseraio, there are counters (Hippowdon, mandibuzz, Skarmory, Rotom wash (HP Ice) among others)

 

thank you Tier council!

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19 minutes ago, EazyL said:

what could i tell you ¯\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)_/¯

 

I think that more than one user has been bothered that garchomp is now uber, really something inneseraio, there are counters (Hippowdon, mandibuzz, Skarmory, Rotom wash (HP Ice) among others)

 

thank you Tier council!

Only mandibuzz effectively counters garchomp out of that bunch.

Not trying to justify anything, just pointing out facts.

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6 minutes ago, pachima said:

Only mandibuzz effectively counters garchomp out of that bunch.

It's a lie, Mandibuzz loses to SD Stone Edge with Scope Lens (50% crit with last gens mechanics we have)

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz on a critical hit: 240-284 (110.5 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Edited by TohnR
Trolling obviously but I've been facing that in a 100$ smogon tournament last weekend that's why I mentionned it :')
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24 minutes ago, TohnR said:

It's a lie, Mandibuzz loses to SD Stone Edge with Scope Lens (50% crit with last gens mechanics we have)

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz on a critical hit: 240-284 (110.5 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

bruh you expose my garchomp set :catcrying:

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1 hour ago, Sethsen said:

Hello, @JakeB

 

You can find the answers via this thread: 

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/topic/125560-september-movement-discussion-thread/

 

Have a nice day.

I mean it's a great pokemon, but it's not like it ever guarantees you a win nor is it so hard to beat. I usually don't even need my Garchomp to take care of opposing Garchomps, I rarely struggle with them. If you can't beat it, change your strategy. That's how I feel. 

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My team used to struggle greatly against Condeldurr, Scizor, Gliscor, and Skarmory. So I had to change my strategy a bit to beat them. That's how it goes. With opposing Garchomps, I wouldn't even need to use my Garchomp to win. I would toxic it and put out a pokemon that can take a hit. Then when it's weak I'd knock it out with a priority move. To make it an Uber is just a great exaggeration.

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4 hours ago, TohnR said:

It's a lie, Mandibuzz loses to SD Stone Edge with Scope Lens (50% crit with last gens mechanics we have)

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz on a critical hit: 240-284 (110.5 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

life orb 1hko, dunno why ppl still thinking yache was broken, life orb just 1hko everything, even 252/252  gastrodon, i used to play magne + eq stone claw, that was the real shit., and yea nobody uses shed on skar anyway.

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Seems to be a misunderstanding of what qualifies as Uber and what doesn't in here.

 

First Point: The existence of a few counters does not negate something being classified as Uber. Just about everything has a counter if you dig enough. The crux of this comes on being able to /reliably/, and I cannot stress that enough, counter a given threat.

 

Second Point: The existences of a few /reliable/, or even "reliable", counters to a given threat does not negate something being classified as Uber either.

 

Part of the Smogon, I know hahaha, definition of Uber is as follows, "A Pokemon is considered Uber if it is too powerful to be reasonably handled within the bounds of the standard metagame. Uber status is determined by this factor alone; it does not matter if a Pokemon is worthless in the Ubers tier, or if it is outclassed by anything already in Ubers."

 

The operative word in that quote is /reasonably/. This means that if you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to handle a very specific threat, it /might/ be considered to be Uber. Operative word being /might/ as that classification comes after discussion on the matter and through the availability of usage data.

 

In general, a Pokemon that is Uber is something that /requires/ a very specific builds to counter. At a deeper level, an Uber Pokemon is capable of walling or sweeping a good chunk of the meta with very little resistance. That last part is the big problem. When a specific Pokemon is OP to the point that you either have to run it or one of the few reliable counters/checks to be viable in comp, that is a large problem. An Uber Pokemon is one that is problematic enough that you have to build around it in some manner, which is also read as over-centralizing. This is something that should be avoided as much as possible.

 

Once upon a time Snorlax was Uber along with Gengar and Salamence. The circumstances for something to be placed into Uber tier will vary depending on the state of the meta at a given point in time. An Uber classification is something that is not necessarily permanent and the devs are working to try and avoid having anything classified as Uber period. Unfortunately, until they find a means of accomplishing that without nerfing a Pokemon into the ground, there will be instances where something might be classed as Uber.

 

On that note: The existence of an Uber tier, or lack thereof, does seem to be a big point of contention. Honestly, I do get why. On the one hand the devs want to allow you as a player to be able to use the comps you make since they are costly and they feel it is a poor design to lock away a few for being OP if they can make them not OP. On the other hand, I do agree that pruning off the OP pieces of a given Pokemon, if it would otherwise be classed to Uber, is shortsighted and does harm the meta when it cannot be removed easily if it is a large problem.

 

Personally, I do think there is some middle ground to be had between the two sides wherein a Uber tier can still exist for the sake of containing Pokemon that either require too many nerfs to make them not OP or ones that, despite having certain aspects removed, are still somehow too OP for OU. Unfortunately, this would also require discussion as to whether or not failed changes to Pokemon in an effort to make them not OP should be reverted if they are going to be Uber anyway.

 

This is what I see from my limited comp knowledge. Feel free to scream at me if I messed something up or have something wrong somewhere.

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1 hour ago, EazyL said:

with the emons that i mentioned first

I'll be brief, hippowdon gets 2hit k.o from eq to +2, the only thing it will do is put a roar, here comes the random, if you get something that forces you to change that hippowdon it will end up being food for garchomp when it comes back in

2-.Skarmory is not as reliable if it carries fire blast, which I have seen, like Frags garchomp which is sd and fire blast

3: rotom does not lower it from hp ice even if it does not have a yache berry, it will only be food for a garchomp at +2

Edited by Huargensy
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1 minute ago, ProfesorEinsteinnn said:

I stopped Garchomp with Exeggcute ez uwu

you are a crack  <33 

 

3 minutes ago, Huargensy said:

I'm going to be brief, hippowdon gets 2hit k.o from eq to +2, the only thing it will do is put a roar, here comes the random, if you get something that forces it to change that hippowdon it will end up being food for chomp when it comes back in

2-.Skarmory is not as reliable if it carries fire blast, which I have seen, like Frags garchomp which is sd and fire blast

3: rotom does not bring it down from hp ice or carrying yache berry, just be food for a garchomp at +2

¯\_( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛)_/¯

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