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September-Movement Discussion Thread


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2 minutes ago, Tawla said:

Bronzor lol. They will force us to play bronzor in every game. 

Fun fact not even Bronzor can beat it

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 85-100 (51.8 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Megahorn is the best coverage move imo as it beats Tangrowth, Tangela, Claydol and Bronzor
 
Only counter I can think of is Fast Tangela
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 112-134 (65.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 201-243 (105.7 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
100 speed evs to outspeed max speed adamant Rhyperior
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zoroark also is the other one should be banned with roserade that thing is enough cancer, for now this "tc" (if we have to call it a serious tier council),  are caring to ban garchomp from ou, and just  doing only the usage updates , over caring on when a thing is to op for  a tier..

Edited by DarylDixon
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18 minutes ago, Aerun said:

Fun fact not even Bronzor can beat it

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Bronzor: 85-100 (51.8 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Megahorn is the best coverage move imo as it beats Tangrowth, Tangela, Claydol and Bronzor
 
Only counter I can think of is Fast Tangela
252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 112-134 (65.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 201-243 (105.7 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
100 speed evs to outspeed max speed adamant Rhyperior

quagsire

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7 minutes ago, Zymogen said:

quagsire

errr... 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Edited by AndrewHavsha
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2 minutes ago, AndrewHavsha said:

errr... 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I also wanna add this calc

252+ Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 103-122 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
All out Attacker Rhyperior with life orb just destroys everything and you are not locked with CB
Rhyperior doesn't even have to run Ice Punch since Gligar is now UU lol
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14 minutes ago, AndrewHavsha said:

errr... 252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 118-141 (58.4 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 159-187 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yeah good point, I didn't calc CB, but I think this set is inferior because any well-built team would have the capacity to outplay the CB set. SD is more problematic, especially with Sub.

 

It still lives a +2 so it counts as a check, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any viable mon that confidently counters Rhyperior

Edited by Zymogen
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2 minutes ago, Aerun said:

I also wanna add this calc

252+ Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 103-122 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
All out Attacker Rhyperior with life orb just destroys everything and you are not locked with CB
Rhyperior doesn't even have to run Ice Punch since Gligar is now UU lol

This calc is surprising yeah. 

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9 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

NU is unstable as hell because there are too many Pokemon in it. Basically we need RU. Now that the devs have implemented ways to encourage play of all tiers, it should be feasible. 

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I feel like RU will just have the exact same balancing problems as NU has right now, no?

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Could we like, stop getting usage drops for NU until the tier is somewhat stabilized? It had broken stuff prior to September changes, and now things will only become more chaotic.  I reached a point where I am not sure who/what to blame. TC can be really stagnant for some reason, but even they cannot perform miracles and discuss properly a tier where a bunch of pokemon are always rising dropping and disrupting the already chaotic metagame. 

If this keeps going we are going to have a NU super centralized metagame, where an handful of pokemon are stuck there via usage and no one to send them back to where they belong. Even worse the more Pokemon fulfill that criteria the harder it is to pinpoint what is actually disrupting the meta or not.

TLDR; Please stop affecting NU with usage while TC doesn't properly discuss the current tier at hands.

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38 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I feel like RU will just have the exact same balancing problems as NU has right now, no?

RU tier will have a general higher 'power level' than NU, and the meta will be experienced differently because of it. Right now is NU is a mishmash of things that are very powerful and things that can barely keep up.

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3 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

RU tier will have a general higher 'power level' than NU, and the meta will be experienced differently because of it. Right now is NU is a mishmash of things that are very powerful and things that can barely keep up.

ultimately it is the same though. RU will be just current NU with a different name, and with another tier under it.

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9 minutes ago, pachima said:

Could we like, stop getting usage drops for NU until the tier is somewhat stabilized? It had broken stuff prior to September changes, and now things will only become more chaotic.  I reached a point where I am not sure who/what to blame. TC can be really stagnant for some reason, but even they cannot perform miracles and discuss properly a tier where a bunch of pokemon are always rising dropping and disrupting the already chaotic metagame. 

If this keeps going we are going to have a NU super centralized metagame, where an handful of pokemon are stuck there via usage and no one to send them back to where they belong. Even worse the more Pokemon fulfill that criteria the harder it is to pinpoint what is actually disrupting the meta or not.

TLDR; Please stop affecting NU with usage while TC doesn't properly discuss the current tier at hands.

The idea behind cycled-based usage movements was to provide stability to lower tiers. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements. Ideas?

Edited by gbwead
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Just now, gbwead said:

The idea behind cycled-based usage movements was to provide stability to lower tiers. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements.

I agree with cycled-based usage movements. But we should probably create exceptions whenever the tier at stake is nowhere near stable neither properly discussed yet.

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3 minutes ago, gbwead said:

The idea behind cycled-based usage movements was to provide stability to lower tiers. Unfortunately, it's not perfect and perhaps we should look at better ways to handle these movements. Ideas?

Tiering will continue to be usage based following a usage cycle of 3 months with 1.7% to move down, 6.7% to move up for the first 2, and with a cut-off point of 4.36% in the third month of a cycle. Changes will be made to the three tiers every month depending on if Pokemon fall below or above the cut-off point.

 

Since July was the end of the last cycle, these changes shouldn't be made until next month right?

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1 minute ago, RLotus said:

Tiering will continue to be usage based following a usage cycle of 3 months with 1.7% to move down, 6.7% to move up for the first 2, and with a cut-off point of 4.36% in the third month of a cycle. Changes will be made to the three tiers every month depending on if Pokemon fall below or above the cut-off point.

 

Since July was the end of the last cycle, these changes shouldn't be made until next month right?

We have a reset following every major update, so that's why we have a 4.36% cut-off point this month.

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14 minutes ago, gbwead said:

We have a reset following every major update, so that's why we have a 4.36% cut-off point this month.

Well that's why it's been unstable. There were many drops in march and april due to sinnoh dropping, nothing in the following 2 months, and only 2 changes for nu in july. I suppose you would expect instability following big updates, I think the tier will be more stable with the regular cycle.

 

Edit: Additionally, having a min elo for usage stats to count could make it a bit more stable. Many lower elo players are using many suboptimal mons that affect tiering. It would also make the stats more useful to look at.

Edited by RLotus
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1 minute ago, RLotus said:

Well that's why it's been unstable. There were many drops in march and april due to sinnoh dropping, nothing in the following 2 months, and only 2 changes for nu in july. I suppose you would expect instability following big updates, I think the tier will be more stable with the regular cycle.

It would be more stable yes, but it would be "fake stability" and the hit would be way harder when we arrive at the third month.

 

I think the third month is always problematic for lower tiers and it's probably best to constantly have different cut-off points for pokemons moving up and down. The gap between 6.7% and 1.7% is perhaps too big tho.

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