Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Munya

September-Movement Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Lol have you ever heard about Quickban ? You know when something too strong is supposed to go down, as a Tier Council your job is to make the relevant calcs and decide on weather it seems all right or not to let it go down by usage. Saying "Nothing can be done" is really a shame because the only truth is "We don't want to do anything"

Revoke TC, hire active players, make useful decisions, that's what can be done 

well, actually, it's kinda sad to tell, talking with an old TC member as i saw it's hard to get active player with alot of knowledge about the competitive and being an active tc member, id agree even to get new active and experienced player to do that thing of job, id wish munya could try to give a shot with some candidatures, it would be more nice getting a some tc members for each tier where they have enough experience to know what to do.

Regardering roserade, id kinda need 2 many calcs to demostrate hows hella strong it is that thing, and  that kinda of poke is smashing the entire tier, id wouldnt even watch the combo with rhyperor, people in ranked can't be forced to play all the times stuff like bronzor and clefable to walls it.

Choice specs vs Clefable:

Spoiler

252 SpA Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 126-148 (62.3 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 63-75 (31.1 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

(it can even get a chance to kill it with -2)

Spoiler

252+ SpA Choice Specs Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 94-112 (46.5 - 55.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 136-162 (67.3 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Spoiler

252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 109-129 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Ok, sludge bomb it's a 3hko, gigadrain 4, but you should consider there are some specsed  , i know it's 3%, but id kinda consider that.

Drapion: (id would consider there are around that combo roserade + rhyperior which is being really strong, and drapion kinda can't do nothing vs it, 

Spoiler

252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 61-73 (42 - 50.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 102-120 (70.3 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 71-84 (48.9 - 57.9%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO

Spoiler

252 Atk Drapion Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 99-117 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Sniper Drapion Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior on a critical hit: 171-202 (77 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Sniper Drapion Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior on a critical hit: 171-202 (77 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
56 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Drapion: 146-174 (100.6 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO (in the back rhyperior can 1hko it even as wall with some atk invest)

 

@gbwead im just giving you my opinion, id can be wrong or whatever u want but id still rater roserade should need a test, and id would consider the combo with rhyperior. my bad for my english

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Lol have you ever heard about Quickban ? You know when something too strong is supposed to go down, as a Tier Council your job is to make the relevant calcs and decide on whether it seems all right or not to let it go down by usage. Saying "Nothing can be done" is really a shame because the only truth is "We don't want to do anything"

Revoke TC, hire active players, make useful decisions, that's what can be done 

 

Edit : Forgot to mention I'm fully satisfied with your work as TC gb and I know we can't expect so much from you, that's also why I want new (active) TC members

I meant that nothing can be done regarding the constant imbalances NU has to deal with following usage movements. It's part of the nature of NU to be disrupted. It should not be a surprise. Whenever we reach the third month of every usage cycle, you should always expect massive tier shifts. I'm not saying Quick Bans are not possible, but even when talking about quick bans, it's best imo to see first rather than straight up banning the pokemon. A quick ban can be decided quite quickly like it was done with Kingdra in UU less than 2 weeks after it gained Draco Meteor, so we are still considering this option if necessary.

 

Also, once again, if you feel strongly regarding a specific problematic pokemon, please explain why and not just say "x is broken". How is this pokemon problematic? Why are the potential counter plays to this threat, ineffective? Keep in mind that depending on which ban criteria you are making a case for, the questions that need answers to are different. In the case of NU, a very unstable metagame, it's nearly impossible to ever get a pokemon ban as unhealthy because the reference of what is unhealthy changes constantly in the NU metagame. So, if I wanted to get a NU pokemon banned, I would probably look at if it fits offensive, defensive or support uber characteristics or if it there is an unacceptable degree of uncompetitiveness caused by this pokemon.

 

There needs to be some discussion before any bans, even quick bans. Garchomp is one of the most discussed pokemon in the history of this game and yet there is still complaints about the lack of discussion prior to the decision that was made. So, right now, unless someone speaks up and makes a case for a pokemon being banned, there is just no way Roserade or Rhyperior will be banned before the end of the month. 

 

For the people that feel like Durant should be unbanned, you guys need to explain why? More specifically, why this post among many other about Durant no longer applies to our metagame.

Edited by gbwead

Share this post


Link to post

I guess we have Magneton to limit it a bit now, but still for me Durant can fuck off. Especially since as soon as Magneton decides to move up again we'll be back to square one. Steel+Bug is just too good for NU, even Escavalier with its shit speed tier manages to be consistently good at throwing around one of its STAB moves or a Close Combat. Durant is at least 10 times more annoying. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

I guess we have Magneton to limit it a bit now, but still for me Durant can fuck off. Especially since as soon as Magneton decides to move up again we'll be back to square one. Steel+Bug is just too good for NU, even Escavalier with its shit speed tier manages to be consistently good at throwing around one of its STAB moves or a Close Combat. Durant is at least 10 times more annoying. 

Agreed, Durant has no place in NU

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

I guess we have Magneton to limit it a bit now, but still for me Durant can fuck off. Especially since as soon as Magneton decides to move up again we'll be back to square one. Steel+Bug is just too good for NU, even Escavalier with its shit speed tier manages to be consistently good at throwing around one of its STAB moves or a Close Combat. Durant is at least 10 times more annoying. 

after the update with that access to close combat, escavalier id rather say its better than durant, even if it has dat 20 speed base, it's funny seeing it as Untiered still

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, DarylDixon said:

after the update with that access to close combat, escavalier id rather say its better than durant, even if it has dat 20 speed base, it's funny seeing it as Untiered still

No, escavalier is great, but durant is far far beyond that.

Share this post


Link to post
40 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

This stupid nerf bullshit should never be a thing. It fucks with doubles too hard. 

It also convolutes the game for new players  and leaves the metagame stagnant and stale.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, RLotus said:

It also convolutes the game for new players  and leaves the metagame stagnant and stale.

I understand and agree with the first part, but out of curiosity what do you mean when you say that it "leaves the metagame stagnant and stale"?

Share this post


Link to post
37 minutes ago, RLotus said:

It also convolutes the game for new players  and leaves the metagame stagnant and stale.

Yes. Also, i dont like that kind of stuff but i have the understatement that the pokemmo is different pokemon game from the original series and it can make the things more interesting if well done.

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I understand and agree with the first part, but out of curiosity what do you mean when you say that it "leaves the metagame stagnant and stale"?

If you want to keep everything in the metagame by nerfting them, the meta will stay the same just more balanced. For example, if chomp comes back without yache or without sd, it will still be front and center in the metagame just like before. The degree of change will be much smaller if you choose not to remove anything. Unless of course you kill certain pokemon with nerfs like wobbufett, but at that point why even nerf it and not just ban it.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, RLotus said:

If you want to keep everything in the metagame by nerfting them, the meta will stay the same just more balanced. For example, if chomp comes back without yache or without sd, it will still be front and center in the metagame just like before. The degree of change will be much smaller if you choose not to remove anything. Unless of course you kill certain pokemon with nerfs like wobbufett, but at that point why even nerf it and not just ban it.

I don't share that point of view, but thanks for explaining.

Share this post


Link to post

can i read some thoughts about stored power reuniclus? it becomes instantly unkillable and this was my first question when building a team, what do i do against reuniclus? because if you don't think about it, he ll just 6 - 0. in the end my strategy is: trying to enjoy the game and just instant forfeit if someone is playing him

before acid armor i used to play attack with scizor CB which is useless now.  if i play haze or a dark type pokemon people can literally keep me hostage, because you can stall it but you can't beat it, they just keep it there.

i guess the most reliable pokemon is tyranitar, but he needs choice band for real damage, and there's still a chance that your enemy has focus blast (a small chance, everyone playing stored version now). the acid armor has fucking 32 pp and it's a nightmare because if you haze.. let's say you're not really enjoying the match going for that endless repetition

im not saying i am against garchomp ban but there were many things i could do about it without hating my life and the moment i logged pokemmo. there are many pokemons who can enter on garchomp AND also fight him, even when things goes bad you can still try to play, u can use priority, burns, faster pokemons. scarfs, even some not wall pokemons can still take a hit at +2 and then attack. but this piece of shit reuniclus gets completely immortal and oneshot your whole team. it's not even hard to set it, this pokemon can resist hits well even at +0

jesus christ, a ban on acid armor/iron defense would make me the happiest person

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, Mitch730 said:

can i read some thoughts about stored power reuniclus? it becomes instantly unkillable and this was my first question when building a team, what do i do against reuniclus? because if you don't think about it, he ll just 6 - 0. in the end my strategy is: trying to enjoy the game and just instant forfeit if someone is playing him

psych up hydreigon yw

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, Mitch730 said:

can i read some thoughts about stored power reuniclus? it becomes instantly unkillable and this was my first question when building a team, what do i do against reuniclus? because if you don't think about it, he ll just 6 - 0. in the end my strategy is: trying to enjoy the game and just instant forfeit if someone is playing him

before acid armor i used to play attack with scizor CB which is useless now.  if i play haze or a dark type pokemon people can literally keep me hostage, because you can stall it but you can't beat it, they just keep it there.

i guess the most reliable pokemon is tyranitar, but he needs choice band for real damage, and there's still a chance that your enemy has focus blast (a small chance, everyone playing stored version now). the acid armor has fucking 32 pp and it's a nightmare because if you haze.. let's say you're not really enjoying the match going for that endless repetition

im not saying i am against garchomp ban but there were many things i could do about it without hating my life and the moment i logged pokemmo. there are many pokemons who can enter on garchomp AND also fight him, even when things goes bad you can still try to play, u can use priority, burns, faster pokemons. scarfs, even some not wall pokemons can still take a hit at +2 and then attack. but this piece of shit reuniclus gets completely immortal and oneshot your whole team. it's not even hard to set it, this pokemon can resist hits well even at +0

jesus christ, a ban on acid armor/iron defense would make me the happiest person

Taunt completely negates stored power. Hydreigon completely negates mono psychic. Scizor can sd and, to some extent, beat it. You can phaze it or haze it. And finally, if you really want, you could bring lower tiered pokemon. Spiritomb, for instance, handles nicely reuni and conk.

TLDR; Unlike garchomp, doublesetup Reuni has plenty of answers, most of them viable, so I don't think it is really broken. More of a nuisance maybe, but fine.

Share this post


Link to post

The reuni set seems really restrictive. Even with taunt you kinda need it on a dark type or you get hit with stored power. I think the most insane thing about the set is that it cant be beaten by things that really should like Scizor and Tyranitar. But yeah it seems like there are plenty of counters. Hydreigon is the most prominent one, taunt on things like Skarmory and Gliscor completely shut it down. Jelliscent could Haze and beat it with shadow ball, same with Cofagrigus. It just turns a lot of games into stallfests that almost have to go into pp stall mode (if Haze is your only counteraction for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, ThinkNicer said:

The reuni set seems really restrictive. Even with taunt you kinda need it on a dark type or you get hit with stored power. I think the most insane thing about the set is that it cant be beaten by things that really should like Scizor and Tyranitar. But yeah it seems like there are plenty of counters. Hydreigon is the most prominent one, taunt on things like Skarmory and Gliscor completely shut it down. Jelliscent could Haze and beat it with shadow ball, same with Cofagrigus. It just turns a lot of games into stallfests that almost have to go into pp stall mode (if Haze is your only counteraction for example.

Stored power kinda tickles if not set up tho. jelli and bliss can taunt it too. even gyara beats stored power.  I legit think psychic >, although that too has its issues.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Paulo300991 said:

Knock Off BP actualization please

Hell no. We have not any of the items that negate knock off effect.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, pachima said:

Hell no. We have not any of the items that negate knock off effect.

Thank god you're not the one deciding on that.

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, pachima said:

Hell no. We have not any of the items that negate knock off effect.

Like Z crystals and Mega Stones?  Someone correct me if I'm wrong but mega stone came one gen later after the knock off new BP. Also, that inst so important. Knock Off act more like a support atk for offensive teams and the mmo have tools to cheese against it since steel types still resist it and Ferrothorn can also rocky helmet and barbs the user. Also, bulky garchomp with rough skin too.

Share this post


Link to post
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.