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Lvkee

Rethink This New Tournament System

Question

Posted (edited)

For any that don't know, in the new update tournaments now have a fully randomized bracket.

 

"Standard Tournament brackets will now be randomized between each round.

  • (Players who are waiting for the next round are now paired together randomly.)" 

 

 

I'm unsure as to why this change was made, as the general consensus with the majority of the people who played tournaments was that the old system was fine. I assume this change was due to a  vocal minority which spoke out about this issue:

 

Which this had got 25 upvotes, and 14 likes. Among those 14 likes there is very little tournament success, so I am unsure why this suggestion was listened to.. As this was not an overwhelming opinion by the player base, but an opinion by a minority of players which refused to adapt to the system which tournaments had, and instead condemn it. If people hated this system and absolutely refused to adapt they could simply play matchmaking instead of trying to change a system which was well accepted and enjoyed by the community.

 

This now feels like a glorified matchmaking, which has completely ripped out the core elements of tournaments which have been apart of PokeMMO for so long. There has always been 2 options for pvp, matchmaking for ladder and placement on the leader board. And tournaments for prizes and a long running experience facing players back to back; of which you could see who you were facing. Ultimately creating a completely different PVP experience, now with this new change there is no differentiation. Ladder and tournaments are now almost identical and they have a very similar experience. People who dislike laddering are ultimately screwed as the same format has been repackaged slightly and put into tournaments.

 

People are going to argue that this change helps the newer players breaking into the scene, however I feel it does the complete opposite. If there is a strong player with a very good team that player is going to be able to spam that team every single round without any counter play from his opponent. This is going to create meta game defining teams to be spammed in tours and people are going to be able to do little to nothing other than match-up fish with a counter to these teams, or run very boring repetitive teams to ensure they can cover as many threats as possible through out the tournament. Where as previously the other player could prepare and ensure to pack an extra check / counter for a team which their opponent has spammed through out the tour.

 

"(Players who are waiting for the next round are now paired together randomly.) "

 

**Edited and amended this point after seeing how the system works

If someone is stalling back in round 3 and you are in r5 waiting with the rest of the bracket you will have to wait for this person stalling to catch up while you sit there doing absolutely nothing. You can NOT progress and play your semi final until they catch you up.

 

Overall I feel like this change only damages the integrity and competitiveness of tournaments which has been established for so long. I ask can the developers please re think this move as it can be detrimental for the environment of the game.

 

Edited by Lvkee
grammar. not the last edit for sure

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4 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I think there could be some value in having players' names revealed only after they are eliminated too. Imagine losing to unknown player 73 and then realise that unknown player 73 was actually charizardlover6969.

How would that work with spectators? It seems way less fun if you don't even know who the players you are spectating are, you wouldn't even be able to watch your friends battles?

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Just now, redbluegreen said:

How would that work with spectators? It seems way less fun if you don't even know who the players you are spectating are, you wouldn't even be able to watch your friends battles?

Not if you have some degree of spectator delay. Sure that is less fun, but it would also help reduce coaching and that's not a bad trade off. As for watching your friends specifically, all they would have to do is tell you their player number.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pachima said:

Seats are shuffled, not players, so how do you exploit ?

From the tour i played, there is a minimum limit of ppl that need to win their round before system shuffle them, so you cannot ask your friends to effectively do what you saying.

Even if this is the case, it would still be pretty easy to dodge one or two players/teammates/friends/threats

 

But besides that, I want to raise a point I feel is very important and hasn’t been mentioned yet: there is no way to balance that minimum number you talked about without making the tournament considerably longer.

  • If the number is too big, say 50%. Then you have a much more random bracket but you have to wait till half the matches are done to start the next round which would obviously delay the tournament a lot
  • If the number is low (say 4 or 2 people) then not only the system becomes less random and even exploitable but it also means that the system would end up matching together the last people to finish their matches every round. This could very easily result in stall vs stall scenarios and god forbid the tournament length at this point.

 

On the flip side to point #2 the people finishing their matches the soonest would also get paired together. This way, it is very possible that if you play HO you’ll end up playing more HO and as I already exemplified, stall would be more likely to play stall. This not only reduces diversity and increases the tournament length but it is very easy to see how it would be more common to see a bracket with a dude sitting in the finals waiting for a r3 match to eventually end.

 

Think of an UU tournament for instance. And for simplicity sake say 50% of the people play screens and 50% play stall. most likely than not, the screens matches would end sooner and they would end up being matched together in one half of the bracket, while the stall matches would end later and the same would happen on the second half. At this point anyone could appreciate how this quickly becomes very problematic.

 

EDIT: This indeed seems to be the case. For those seeking further information on how the system works, I remembered I read kyu saying something about it a couple weeks ago. I found it: 

 

Edited by iJulian

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A vocal minority with a few 'likes' complaining that devs implement something proposed by another vocal minority with a few 'likes.'

 

2020 is truly a wild year.

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Posted (edited)

firstly, not even gonna even entertain this ^ lol.

 

Can we get the logistics on the current tournament setup? Since the current one seems to be easy to hold up later on especially in these bigger tournaments. 4 people are now waiting 2h+ for a guy to catch up, holding 2 matches up instead of 1. Just curious on how this works.

Edited by Lvkee
xd

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There is no reason to have 256 players tournaments anymore since we have priority queue now, that should help a lot.

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I don't think the reason we had 256 seat tournaments had anything to do with getting certain people into tournaments, but more to do with the active population of PvPers

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