Jump to content
  • 13
Lvkee

Rethink This New Tournament System

Question

Posted (edited)

For any that don't know, in the new update tournaments now have a fully randomized bracket.

 

"Standard Tournament brackets will now be randomized between each round.

  • (Players who are waiting for the next round are now paired together randomly.)" 

 

 

I'm unsure as to why this change was made, as the general consensus with the majority of the people who played tournaments was that the old system was fine. I assume this change was due to a  vocal minority which spoke out about this issue:

 

Which this had got 25 upvotes, and 14 likes. Among those 14 likes there is very little tournament success, so I am unsure why this suggestion was listened to.. As this was not an overwhelming opinion by the player base, but an opinion by a minority of players which refused to adapt to the system which tournaments had, and instead condemn it. If people hated this system and absolutely refused to adapt they could simply play matchmaking instead of trying to change a system which was well accepted and enjoyed by the community.

 

This now feels like a glorified matchmaking, which has completely ripped out the core elements of tournaments which have been apart of PokeMMO for so long. There has always been 2 options for pvp, matchmaking for ladder and placement on the leader board. And tournaments for prizes and a long running experience facing players back to back; of which you could see who you were facing. Ultimately creating a completely different PVP experience, now with this new change there is no differentiation. Ladder and tournaments are now almost identical and they have a very similar experience. People who dislike laddering are ultimately screwed as the same format has been repackaged slightly and put into tournaments.

 

People are going to argue that this change helps the newer players breaking into the scene, however I feel it does the complete opposite. If there is a strong player with a very good team that player is going to be able to spam that team every single round without any counter play from his opponent. This is going to create meta game defining teams to be spammed in tours and people are going to be able to do little to nothing other than match-up fish with a counter to these teams, or run very boring repetitive teams to ensure they can cover as many threats as possible through out the tournament. Where as previously the other player could prepare and ensure to pack an extra check / counter for a team which their opponent has spammed through out the tour.

 

"(Players who are waiting for the next round are now paired together randomly.) "

 

From what this infers (I can not fully check as recent tournaments have been cancelled and moderators do not know): The new system is also easily abusable. If 2 friends are in a tournament they can communicate with each other when one is going to queue, so the other can avoid them and they can both dodge playing each other until they get to the final, where they can easily win trade too. Also, on the opposite side if you are in a bigger guild you can get your friends to play and you can time each other and queue up against them every single round to make it to the way to the final while win trading. This goes against a big argument of which people disliked old tournaments for (big guilds being able to scout and counter), now big guilds don't need to scout or counter but can simply rig and fix the tournament to make it to the final. 

 

Overall I feel like this change only damages the integrity and competitiveness of tournaments which has been established for so long. I ask can the developers please re think this move as it can be detrimental for the environment of the game.

 

Edited by Lvkee
grammar. not the last edit for sure

Share this post


Link to post

Recommended Posts

  • 0

If someone has built a strong team that no one can beat, it's not the fault of the system. It's because other players are trash. :shrug: 

 

This update allows for more skill based play which is what a competitive system is all about. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, EricRasp said:

If someone has built a strong team that no one can beat, it's not the fault of the system. It's because other players are trash. :shrug: 

 

This update allows for more skill based play which is what a competitive system is all about. 

No, it makes tournaments completely random and enables people to spam the same boring build without being punished by the opponent who should be able to counter it. This is matchmaking part 2, if you want skill based play where your opponent can't counter or punish laziness due to lack of creativity then you should play matchmaking.

Edited by Lvkee

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

With this current system, you are unable to counter team your opponent as you do not know who is your opponent gonna be. That being said, counter teaming is a very important element in competitive mons even outside of MMO 

 

This is basically just glorified matchmaking. Revert back to old tour system.

Edited by dinofish
why not

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

What? I thought you guys wanted to spectate one team go all the way for 6 rounds? 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
18 minutes ago, Lvkee said:

No, it makes tournaments completely random and enables people to spam the same boring build without being punished by the opponent who should be able to counter it. This is matchmaking part 2, if you want skill based play where your opponent can't counter or punish laziness due to lack of creativity then you should play matchmaking.

Well, if any changes do happen, it will only be after Season 1 has ended. I'm sure the dev team will be collecting data and amend the rules accordingly as the season ends and we move on to a new one. So, good luck 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

We are yet to find if late game rounds this time are more competitive than before, so its early to say what update did in that regard.

On the other hand, you will apologize me but I will never accept the fact that, with earlier system, most rounds, even semi and finals were completely garbage, maybe even rivaling with Brock pve skill. I have won tournaments in the past (Before I gave up completely) and I never found myself truly awarded cause I was facing almost literal bots everytime. I was always super active in the spectating aspect, and skill displayed in tours of this game has even dropped further ever since. 

Maybe this isn't the change we are looking for, but something had to be done regarding past system. For god sake I want to spectate a final battle filled with tension and hype, and not seeing 2 potatoes clicking buttons, or just get obliterated cause the counter-teaming fishing aspect failed, and their matchup went terribly.

To add on it, unless I'm mistaken, seats are shuffled, not players, so if the shuffling system pairs two friends against each other whenever they finish, they can't dodge at all.

And to finish my points, I believe MMO has gotten way too used to the way past system became. People now fish for good matchups with counterteams and whatnot, which is the main reason I keep spectating obliterated teams in later rounds. Counterteaming is a skill, but actually playing the game is also a skill. (I have seen too many people giving up way too soon because bad matchup, when good outplays can actually give them the win)

 

 

Edited by pachima

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

IMO the biggest thing is that tournaments are supposed to be of higher skill than matchmaking, and Luke said it perfectly, with full shuffling tournaments feel like nothing more than glorified matchmaking, if you want to make it easier for newer players to get a feel of the scene, they have matchmaking. Alternatively, shuffle rounds up to the one before semifinals (when rewards start being handed out)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
3 minutes ago, pachima said:

For god sake I want to spectate a final battle filled with tension and hype, and not seeing 2 potatoes clicking buttons, or just get obliterated cause the counter-teaming fishing aspect failed, and their matchup went terribly.

I mean... you can’t shuffle the finals anyways, it is and will always be the exact same as before, except now when you go to scout your opp you find he used a single team all the way through so feel even more incentivized to counterteam which as you said, could backfire horribly 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
2 minutes ago, iJulian said:

IMO the biggest thing is that tournaments are supposed to be of higher skill than matchmaking, and Luke said it perfectly, with full shuffling tournaments feel like nothing more than glorified matchmaking, if you want to make it easier for newer players to get a feel of the scene, they have matchmaking. Alternatively, shuffle rounds up to the one before semifinals (when rewards start being handed out)

I don't know if you spectate the same tours I do, but I see no skill in tournaments at all, except in rare cases. The amount of times our team went full "wtf is this" while spectating semis and finals is way too big.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 minute ago, iJulian said:

I mean... you can’t shuffle the finals anyways, it is and will always be the exact same as before, except now when you go to scout your opp you find he used a single team all the way through so feel even more incentivized to counterteam which as you said, could backfire horribly 

The point of a shuffling system was to always filter better opponents in earlier rounds, and not see joeshinyhunter2 achieving semis or finals and playing storyline mons, or worse. No system helps with later rounds, and I don't think its possible without removing the hype involved in spectating, etc. so I don't see the issue here.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 minute ago, pachima said:

I don't know if you spectate the same tours I do, but I see no skill in tournaments at all, except in rare cases. The amount of times our team went full "wtf is this" while spectating semis and finals is way too big.

No, I agree. I’m just saying the current system doesn’t help, in fact it might worsen the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
3 minutes ago, pachima said:

The point of a shuffling system was to always filter better opponents in earlier rounds, and not see joeshinyhunter2 achieving semis or finals and playing storyline mons, or worse. No system helps with later rounds, and I don't think its possible without removing the hype involved in spectating, etc. so I don't see the issue here.

Then only shuffle the rounds before semis which is precisely what I suggested 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, iJulian said:

No, I agree. I’m just saying the current system doesn’t help, in fact it might worsen the problem.

Can't be worse than what it was, trust me. And as I said, we have yet to know if the current system does, in fact, help with the issue or not. Either way, we need to test new things. If this doesn't work, test something else. Just don't revert back to the old system, where I spectate finals and think: I should have spectated Pallet Town rival battles.

EDIT: it has been 2 days. Complaining about a new change this soon makes no sense at all

Edited by pachima

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)

hey what about cc with the new system and shiny tours with the old? 

 

 

Edited by Quinn010

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

There's literally nothing wrong with the shuffle bracket imo. It just encourages people to use all round more better built & balanced teams, and reduces scouting instead of just straight up building for the guy you're playing after spending 10 minutes scouting his previous rounds. Like, I'm struggling to find any bad side to them adding this to the game???

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Parke said:

There's literally nothing wrong with the shuffle bracket imo. It just encourages people to use all round more better built & balanced teams, and reduces scouting instead of just straight up building for the guy you're playing after spending 10 minutes scouting his previous rounds. Like, I'm struggling to find any bad side to them adding this to the game???

The only way I see this update being bad is that it forces a more balanced meta. Extreme sets like HO will almost never make it to the end of a tour. 

 

Edited by EricRasp

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
11 minutes ago, Parke said:

There's literally nothing wrong with the shuffle bracket imo. It just encourages people to use all round more better built & balanced teams, and reduces scouting instead of just straight up building for the guy you're playing after spending 10 minutes scouting his previous rounds. Like, I'm struggling to find any bad side to them adding this to the game???

scouting and counterbuilding is also a skill 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 minute ago, Quinn010 said:

scouting and counterbuilding is also a skill 

If Daryl can do it effectively I'm gonna have to strongly disagree on this one boss

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 minute ago, Quinn010 said:

scouting and counterbuilding is also a skill 

How is that a skill lol? You literally look at someone's team and their sets and pick counters from your own team. I'd argue it is a practice that requires the least amount of skill. 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I don't really care either way, sure counter-teaming requires certain levels of skill, but so does team building for a blind match up (Literally pure team building). At least this way the person who doesn't have a team to scout for them isn't placed on their back foot.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 minute ago, gbwead said:

No more counter teambuilding. Good. It was always lame af.

You’re known for running unorthodox stuff so ofcourse you’d be against scouting lmao, I’d try seeing it from a more neutral perspective.

 

I also agree with Pachima that it is maybe too early to complain but I believe the argument is that it is fundamentally wrong to shuffle a bracket every single round, making tournaments  basically a glorified version of matchmaking when they were supposed to have a different feeling attached to them. This is an argument of concept and thus I believe it can be put forward before testing.

 

Now don’t get me wrong, I preferred the old system but I don’t really mind thee new one so I’m just trying to see both sides here. That being said I believe the best course of action would be to shuffle early rounds (1, 2, 3 and 4) while settling with a stable bracket from quarterfinals onwards.

 

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
1 hour ago, pachima said:

The point of a shuffling system was to always filter better opponents in earlier rounds, and not see joeshinyhunter2 achieving semis or finals and playing storyline mons

This isn’t achieved with the new system either, just like the previous system would sometimes make one side of the bracket giga stacked and the other half full of joes, the new one could keep randomly pairing joe with other joes and he somehow would make it into the finals. If you really wanted to get rid of this issue (and have higher quality matches in later rounds) what they need to implement is a seeding system using matchmaking me as reference (Kind of like big tournaments often work by having the higher seeds play the lower ones)

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
7 minutes ago, iJulian said:

You’re known for running unorthodox stuff so ofcourse you’d be against scouting lmao

I have multiple teams, so scouting doesn't really affect my chances to win or lose. 

 

4 minutes ago, iJulian said:

, I’d try seeing it from a more neutral perspective.

What perspective is that? The perspective of people that can't teambuild decent teams and need to counter their opponent to feel less insecure about their odds. Get good, instead of fishing for match up against players that may not have as much resources as you do.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.