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LifeStyleNORE

New Ranked Vanities

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2 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

What kind of person is going to grind 500 wins in 3 months just for a hat?

That averages to about 6 wins per day, which isn't unreasonable imo. They also stated there would be rewards for players based on their leaderboard position at the end of each season, combined with the seasonal tournaments. So even if you don't like the vanity items, there are other things to grind towards. 

 

I think we should give it a season before looking to change things, considering some players have 40+ wins in just 2 days and we still don't know what exactly the rewards are for leaderboard position/seasonal tournaments 

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500 wins is quite a lot, especially if you want to earn it for multiple tiers. Maybe win streaking could help you earn more points or your final position on the leader board can give you additional points as an end of season reward. E.g. Top 10 + 500 points, Top 20 + 400 points.

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1 minute ago, hannahtaylor said:

They're 1000 wins which makes it even more ridiculous

You gain 2 points per win and the cost is 1000, so it's 500 wins

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I am overall really happy with this update, and I think it adds some long needed features which the community has been crying out for; however, to get the seasonal reward the current requirement is simply too hard for anyone who isn't willing to grind the game 24/7. 

 

Assuming you run HO every game this will take you around 10 mins per game.

the average W/L of top 100 (looking at pre season) is 55%.

This is a W/L ratio of 500 - 400 (900 games total)

 

900 x 10 = 9000 

9000 minutes into hours = 150 hours. And this is assuming you run HO every single game.

 

Now if you run balance you are looking at about double this time (which is the majority of the player-base)

900 x 20 = 18,000 

18,000 minutes into hours = 300 hours

 

300h / 90d = 3.3h per day of ranked.

 

*this is also excluding queue times

 

If you run stall, don't even bother.

 

Now each season lasts 90 days, this means you will have to play ranked 3.3h every single day for 90 days if you are an average top 100 player to meet this criteria for the vanity.

 

This is too much.

 

I think making the reward for top 50/100 or >500 points is a lot more reasonable for the player-base to achieve.

Edited by Lvkee
I think my math is correct, @ me if its wrong ill fix

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ye it's a placeholder value which got its way into prod, we're halving the requirements for it next update

 

4 minutes ago, Lvkee said:

Now each season lasts 90 days, this means you will have to play ranked 3.3h every single day for 90 days if you are an average top 100 player to meet this criteria for the vanity.

 

This is too much.

casual

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9 minutes ago, Kyu said:

we're halving the requirements for it next update

Not a fan of this imo

 

I feel the goal should be to keep 'casual' players interested in PvP for as long as possible. It keeps matchmaking alive, and will make it so people normally not interested in PvP find themselves improving & actually enjoying the competitive side.

 

I have friends who have zero interest in pvp already having 25+ wins. I guarantee they play for 2 weeks, get the vanity, and never play again. 

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49 minutes ago, Paul said:

That averages to about 6 wins per day, which isn't unreasonable imo.

Assuming you login everyday, assuming you feel like facing random clicker monkeys everyday, assuming you don't burn out from doing all that in a week or 2, then yeah. Not to mention that's only for 1 of the 4 tiers available. Then it becomes pretty unreasonable. 

53 minutes ago, Paul said:

considering some players have 40+ wins in just 2 days

Those are very few people who should get a life tbh. 

41 minutes ago, Kyu said:

ye it's a placeholder value which got its way into prod, we're halving the requirements for it next update

Thank you. 

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6 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Those are very few people who should get a life tbh. 

That's a good portion of the ladder at this point. Just because your old man bones can't handle logging in more than 2 times a week, doesn't mean everyone is like that

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10 minutes ago, Paul said:

That's a good portion of the ladder at this point. Just because your old man bones can't handle logging in more than 2 times a week, doesn't mean everyone is like that

I mean, you could be right. But so far I've only seen you argue against this. Every other comment/like seems to agree with this thread's OP. 

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1 hour ago, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

500 wins is quite a lot, especially if you want to earn it for multiple tiers. Maybe win streaking could help you earn more points or your final position on the leader board can give you additional points as an end of season reward. E.g. Top 10 + 500 points, Top 20 + 400 points.

I like this approach. Best of both worlds.

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Those are vanities items, if they were easy to get, everyone would get them and they would become meaningless.

edit: 2 pts per win no matter what is pretty dull and boring imo

I would prefer 1 pt for the first win, 2 pts for 2 wins in a row, 3 pts for 3 wins in a row, 4 pts for 4 wins in a row, etc. Grinding would be more fun that way and there would be more at stake in each duel. Grinding would also be much easier that way, so I'm assuming you would need 2000 pts instead of 1000 pts to get the vanity.

 

edit2: I also hope there could be a way when you get enough points to "transform" the 4x25 comp into a 6x31 comp. Right now, at 75 pts you get a 2x31 4x25 comp. It would be nice if at 500 pts you could transform that 2x31 4x25 comp into a perfect comp.

Edited by gbwead

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28 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Every other comment/like seems to agree with this thread's OP. 

I agree, the 5 likes on your post mean my opinion is invalid 

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1 hour ago, Paul said:

Not a fan of this imo

 

I feel the goal should be to keep 'casual' players interested in PvP for as long as possible. It keeps matchmaking alive, and will make it so people normally not interested in PvP find themselves improving & actually enjoying the competitive side.

 

I have friends who have zero interest in pvp already having 25+ wins. I guarantee they play for 2 weeks, get the vanity, and never play again. 

For people desperate for hats, we do have 4 active at a time. It's quite a lot if you want to complete more than 1 tier's reward tree during a season at the moment, and we'd like to encourage people to build for more than one tier.

 

43 minutes ago, gbwead said:

edit: 2 pts per win no matter what is pretty dull and boring imo

I would prefer 1 pt for the first win, 2 pts for 2 wins in a row, 3 pts for 3 wins in a row, 4 pts for 4 wins in a row, etc. Grinding would be more fun that way and there would be more at stake in each duel. Grinding would also be much easier that way, so I'm assuming you would need 2000 pts instead of 1000 pts to get the vanity.

 

I think we'll consider changing MMRWP after we get metrics for how many people are playing the season's tree to completion. It's too early to tell what appropriate values are at the moment.

 

45 minutes ago, gbwead said:

edit2: I also hope there could be a way when you get enough points to "transform" the 4x25 comp into a 6x31 comp.

Matchmaking rewards are a crutch to help players become more competitive over time. They are not meant to take the role of perfect breeds, and we do not want to give players an upgrade path which is completely devoid of economic interaction with the greater game.

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1 hour ago, Paul said:

Not a fan of this imo

 

I feel the goal should be to keep 'casual' players interested in PvP for as long as possible. It keeps matchmaking alive, and will make it so people normally not interested in PvP find themselves improving & actually enjoying the competitive side.

 

I have friends who have zero interest in pvp already having 25+ wins. I guarantee they play for 2 weeks, get the vanity, and never play again. 

Thing is there are more tiers. In fact, we have currently 3 tiers and a format that requires 500 wins each one for each vanity. Even those friends with 25+ wins (And who nolifed the game) will struggle to get all 4 vanities in 3 months. 

Also thank you Kyu for halving the requirements.

Finally. with today's resources, having 2x31 4x25 is more of a wasteslot than anything. I won't ask for 6x31, but 4x28 is already way  much better. 

Thank you.

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2 minutes ago, pachima said:

Thing is there are more tiers. In fact, we have currently 3 tiers and a format that requires 500 wins each one for each vanity. Even those friends with 25+ wins (And who nolifed the game) will struggle to get all 4 vanities in 3 months. 

Also thank you Kyu for halving the requirements.

Finally. with today's resources, having 2x31 4x25 is more of a wasteslot than anything. I won't ask for 6x31, but 4x28 is already way  much better. 

Thank you.

Are we sure these hats will never appear in the future? I was assuming there would be rotating from one tier to the other, so that following a year every tier would have the chance to earn one. If that isn't the case, I understand why halving the requirements is necessary, but if you have multiple chances to get these hats, season after season, it's no big deal if the requirements are high.

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2 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I was assuming there would be rotating from one tier to the other, so that following a year every tier would have the chance to earn one. If that isn't the case, I understand why halving the requirements is necessary, but if you have multiple chances to get these hats, season after season, it's no big deal if the requirements are high.

OU: 0->1->2->3->0

UU: 4->5->6->7->4

NU: 8->9->10->11->8

Doubles: 12->13->14->15->12

 

Vanities never leave their tier, and 16 items are allocated for PvP rewards currently. Vanities are scheduled for reintroduction after 1 year at the moment.

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10 minutes ago, Kyu said:

For people desperate for hats

I'm desperate for the hats to have some sort of value, and I fear shinyhunterjoe bringing sceptile to low ladder & eventually winning 250 games will hurt that

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5 minutes ago, Paul said:

I'm desperate for the hats to have some sort of value, and I fear shinyhunterjoe bringing sceptile to low ladder & eventually winning 250 games will hurt that

Idk man shinyhunterjoe is a decent player.

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2 minutes ago, pachima said:

Idk man shinyhunterjoe is a decent player.

shinyhunterjoe has a negative win/loss record but will get the super special reward in 2 weeks

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1 minute ago, Paul said:

shinyhunterjoe has a negative win/loss record but will get the super special reward in 2 weeks

shinyhunterjoe is playing rain jajajajaja

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Why don't you have an actual reward tree system that works with match points? Match points that you can earn from every tier and can use in a single reward tree. Simple example:

 

Let's say winning gives you 5 match points (MP) and losing gives you 2 (no forfeit or after turn 15). 

 

First reward tree level:

15MP: 3x nevermeltice 

15MP: 3x charcoal

15MP: 3x everstone

 

You need to unlock one to get to the next level.

 

Second reward tree level:

40MP: etc

 

You then can have a reward tree for comps. One option for each tier. I guess itd be a real hassle to code. 

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7 hours ago, Kyu said:

I think we'll consider changing MMRWP after we get metrics for how many people are playing the season's tree to completion. It's too early to tell what appropriate values are at the moment.

Hi Kyu, I have found that my friends are more willing to stay in around 300~400, and farming pts by playing 12 battles per hr, and giving up the game in 5rounds. which is unfaire to others who took serious in PVP. Making the lack of motivation in PVP for the game. I would strongly suggest to change the pts reward per win by different Elo: 

 

<450: 2

450~580: 4

580~650: 6

>650: 8 

etc

(even you're in above Elo 650, you still have to win 125 battles, which I think it's a lot for players)

 

Well, I just make up thoses numbers. I thought even in before the update, rare ppl play over 2000 battles in ranking (Although, by the time before update, the ranking is restricted by the time to open). But at least which we can motivate players to get high Elo.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, mxdzzz said:

Hi Kyu, I have found that my friends are more willing to stay in around 300~400, and farming pts by playing 12 battles per hr, and giving up the game in 5rounds. which is unfaire to others who took serious in PVP. Making the lack of motivation in PVP for the game. I would strongly suggest to change the pts reward per win by different Elo: 

 

<450: 2

450~580: 4

580~650: 6

>650: 8 

etc

(even you're in above Elo 650, you still have to win 125 battles, which I think it's a lot for players)

 

Well, I just make up thoses numbers. I thought even in before the update, rare ppl play over 2000 battles in ranking (Although, by the time before update, the ranking is restricted by the time to open). But at least which we can motivate players to get high Elo.

 

 

On top of that, I suspect there is a lot of win trading in low ladder. Recently, I saw some new PvP mystery box on the GTL. Considering none of the players from the 4 leaderboards have won enough matches to afford those, I think it's safe to assume these new PvP mystery box come from low ladder which is quite concerning imo.

Edited by gbwead

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