ThinkNicer Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I think that's a worse option yeah, you would have to make outrage and draco a different typing. But devs will not make custom moves like that. And if you want the stab to not work on those moves somehow it would be too obscure how would you even find out as a new player. Unless the move description says something like 'this move does not benefit from STAB '. But that's just opening a can of worms. Whats next, we can remove freeze from icebeam? Just convince devs to flatban lo. DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 2 hours ago, ThinkNicer said: Just convince devs to flatban lo. too u do dis... Devs, please, competitive play is for our enjoyment, let us create and modify it in a way that is actually entertaining for us rather than altering moves, abilities and so on. Stelian and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
gbwead Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Alright, let's get more input on Hydreigon. What do you guys feel are the most standard sets on Hydreigon? Not asking which set is viable or what can work in theory. I just wonder what you guys feel are the most common sets, the ones you are the most likely to encounter when playing matchmaking or tournaments. Link to comment
Daifang Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 1 hour ago, gbwead said: Alright, let's get more input on Hydreigon. What do you guys feel are the most standard sets on Hydreigon? Not asking which set is viable or what can work in theory. I just wonder what you guys feel are the most common sets, the ones you are the most likely to encounter when playing matchmaking or tournaments. Choice specs or Choice Scarf ThinkNicer and Luke 2 Link to comment
Ultrajesus Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, gbwead said: Alright, let's get more input on Hydreigon. What do you guys feel are the most standard sets on Hydreigon? Not asking which set is viable or what can work in theory. I just wonder what you guys feel are the most common sets, the ones you are the most likely to encounter when playing matchmaking or tournaments. Scarf, The LO mixed one, the Specs one, the variant with Taunt and the not-so-common-but-still-dangerous Hydre with Focus energy. About the DD variant... I haven't seen a single one yet... Note: Every variant I mentioned has Draco Meteor in it. Except maybe the Scarf one, i still see people using Dragon Pulse instead of DM. Edited November 8, 2020 by Ultrajesus Postdata Link to comment
gbwead Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 (edited) Hydreigon can be played in many ways, but I would like to focus on the Choice Spec set. It has the potential to wall break through pretty much anything and that’s not necessarily a bad thing; there are several locked mons that are impossible to counter or wall completely and that’s entirely fine. My issue with Choice Spec Hydreigon is that, unlike other Choice Spec or Choice Band users, there is almost no prediction risk involved. When Roserade locks itself on Sludge Bomb, there is a risk that offensive answers like Escavalier or Klinklang come in play and punish the locked mon for free. When Krookodile locks itself on Crunch, there is a risk that offensive answers like Durant, Scrafty or Bisharp come in play and punish the locked mon for free. When Darmanitan locks itself on Flareblitz, there is a risk that offensive answers like Chandelure or Salamence come in play and punish the locked mon for free. When Hydreigon locks itself on Draco Meteor, no offensive answer can come in play and punish the locked Hydreigon. Assuming you know your opponent will do Draco Meteor on Spec Hydreigon, you still can’t send your offensive dragon resistance against it since they are all outsped by Hydreigon and get 2HKO: Spoiler 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 145-171 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 159-189 (100 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 188-221 (101.6 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 177-209 (122 - 144.1%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns That’s a huge problem since it implies that, whenever Choice Spec Hydreigon comes in play, it gets a kill on anything that isn’t a wall; there is no way around, no offensive mon can handle a Spec Draco Meteor in the face. If Hydreigon was a glass canon, I guess its wall breaking capacity would not be a big deal, but Hydreigon got a very good defensive typing, ability and very bulk. Unlike Yanmega or Porygon-Z, Hydreigon can come in play with relative ease. Some may argue that being locked on Draco Meteor when killing a pokemon comes at the cost of the opponent being able to set up on you. However, in order to make losing a pokemon worth it, the opponent needs to be able to set up an incredible sweeper that in normal battle conditions would not be able to set up. Set up sweepers like Scizor, Gyarados, Togekiss, Volcarona and others can still be countered in the exact same way they always get stopped, so those hardly take advantage of Hydreigon being locked. Cloyster and Sniper Kingdra are on the other hand very destructive as sweepers and are much harder to set up usually. Sadly, they still can’t set up in front of a locked Hydreigon. I guess Lucario is pretty good at revenge killing Hydreigon and setting up on it, but sadly I don’t consider Lucario as a very competent sweeper in our metagame. I guess it’s a matter of opinion when it comes to Lucario, but overall, even if Lucario can take advantage of locked Hydreigon that’s still not a big tradeoff compared to what Hydreigon has already accomplished imo. Let’s now look at the walls that can come into Spec Draco Meteor Hydreigon: Blobs, Milotic and Ferrothorn. Ferrothorn comes in at the risk of getting OHKO by Flamethrower from the Choice Spec set while the blobs take the risk of coming into a Superpower set. I also would like to add that unlike Kingdra, when Hydreigon is locked on Draco Meteor, it doesn’t fear being revenge killed by Pursuit Scizor. So overall, even though Hydreigon can be played in very different ways, I believe Hydreigon with its Choice Spec set already fits offensive uber characteristics and should therefore be banned. Edited November 8, 2020 by gbwead Quinn010, DoubleJ, ZeknShooter and 2 others 5 Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 I mean... we all agree. Now get that thing out of here. RysPicz and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Sooooooo. Ban? PinkWings and DoubleJ 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 ever uber direct hydrei ban lo. Axelgor 1 Link to comment
Munya Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 2:22 PM, ThinkNicer said: Sooooooo. Ban? no Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Spoiler Draco Meteor has been removed from Hydreigon Nasty Plot has been added to Hydreigon I don't know, but the second point might completely undo the progress you're trying to achieve with the first one. CaptnBaklava and HumongousNoodle 1 1 Link to comment
Kamowanthere Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 enough with draco meteor, time to abuse nasty plot this month GodofIshean, Baeex and ZeknShooter 3 Link to comment
NikhilR Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 xXBlu3BreathXx, nestle014, MrPeruano and 24 others 26 1 Link to comment
Munya Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 It could very well be a problem, and I was very much hesitant to allow it to happen, but there is merit in allowing it to be tested at the very least. Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Finally I can play OU again DoubleJ 1 Link to comment
LeJovi Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Finally ThinkNice can run his x6 dragon weakness team, conk still a problemt tho HumongousNoodle, MendeeZ, Luke and 5 others 8 Link to comment
DoubleJ Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Summary of TC's Decision: Draco Meteor bad. Nasty Plot? Maybe bad, we see. HumongousNoodle 1 Link to comment
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