Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
pachima

PSL XIII - Community Input / Discussion

Showdown or not  

75 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Showdown Tier (or not)?


  • Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.
  • Poll closed on 07/19/20 at 10:59 PM

Recommended Posts

42 minutes ago, iJulian said:

Dubs has 128 man tournaments, lc does not.

 

Staff decide on tournament sizes based on the historical playerbase of the tier.

 

So yeah, its quite simple: I happen to have a real argument and official evidence to support it. All you got is a meme. Dubs has more players than lc does and that's it.

 

image.png.fcbc584ee7393f83ca3a267b8e213e6f.png xd

 

image.png.1e8aa4ee2318149180e5c823be59b39e.png

 

I dare you to find a 32 man dubs CC let alone a 6x31/shiny (real) tournament.

 

long ago the lc tournaments are filled the adms should increase the number,
lc is also a tier older than doubles

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, TechnicianX said:

lc is also a tier older than doubles

no it is not lmao. lc only really became a rea; tier with the introduction of eviolite

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, iJulian said:

no it is not lmao. lc only really became a rea; tier with the introduction of eviolite

 


in mmo lc was before doubles

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, TechnicianX said:

in mmo lc was before doubles

 

why am I even arguing with the great mmo veteran technicianXD? 

Edited by iJulian

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, iJulian said:

????? why cant doubles be a managers choice?

I agree.

 

Doubles is considerably more competitive, diverse and strategic than other tiers (especially if we consider that LC can be pitched and doubles cannot).

Although it is true that new players find it a little more difficult to learn to play doubles efficiently, because the learning line of is somewhat slower, it is not true that it is the least played tier. Banning the pick only devalues players who specialize in that tier, and discourage more people from entering it. Hopefully it can be revised.

 

I love everything else ... hype!


Spanish

Spoiler

 

Estoy de acuerdo.

 

Dobles es considerablemente más competitiva, diversa y estratégica que otras tiers (en especial, si consideramos que LC puede ser pickeada y dobles no).

Si bien es cierto que a los nuevos jugadores les puede costar un poco más aprender a jugar dobles de manera eficiente, porque la linea de aprendizaje es algo más lenta, no es cierto que sea la tier menos jugada. Banear el pick de dobles, en realidad sólo devalúa a los jugadores que se especializan en esa tier, y desincentiva que más gente entre en ella. Ojalá se pueda revisar.

 

Me encanta todo lo demás ... hype!

 

 

Edited by aZaz07

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

I might be wrong and we are willing to change the decision if enough proof is given to us. However, please don't forget that in PSL X (I think), we had doubles as manager choice, which led to every single one picking doubles not because they were good with it, but because the opposing side was awful in it. As a result, in that season we had a lot of awful double matches that I would not want to witness again(I experienced this first handed cause I was a manager then), not because I do not like doubles, but because PSL is supposed to be a competitive event. Same logic, of course, applies to showdown tiers.

That was the reasoning behind the decision. Feel free to prove us otherwise, that's what this thread is for.

PS: I might try to dig older comments of that PSL about the issue in case.

Edit: To make it more clear, the issue is the amount of good players that play the format, not how many do. It is not straightly linear and other reasons may be behind more people playing doubles such as you not needing specific unevolved forms to actually enter tours, etc. Give us at least 16 consistent double players and we'll check if that is verified. If we indeed have a large enough playerpool to play this format, then I don't see the issue of giving doubles to a manager choice, otherwise it stays as it is.

Edited by pachima

Share this post


Link to post

I'm really sorry guys, but I messed up the polling. I didn't realize how easy it was to spam answers using Forms. We added a question to verify your forum username, sadly that means all the votes till now have to be declared void. Because I can't say for certain that people haven't voted twice or more. We have the data of the previous poll to compare.

 

Again, really sorry I totally messed up.

 

Please take the poll again here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSet1FFDoIdU143f4b6qKHbBS7JgP07cltAOvVzaC1QJ00hUSA/viewform

 

The link on the OP works as well. Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Imabetheverybest1 said:

I agree that it is more newcomer friendly and easy to get into, I'm just coming from the point that someone might be a lot more skilled then the rest of the roster. If a worlds level player signups vs a roster of newer players they are gonna dominate. Sure anybody can beat them (its Pokémon), but the odds of them just blowing through the rest of the roster kinda makes the tier stale. Its kinda like if in 2015 Frags or Bowser were playing new OU players in verm. Sure they could win but no one sees it as a competitive match. But  like I said before Idk who actually plays VGC and as thinknicer said its up to the community, just throwing in my opinion.

Feel like that's a bigger issue for the older showdown tiers (outdated moves/types/mechanics can lead to the tier being dominated by older players -> you'll just be seeing a bunch of old dead people clash -> not as inviting to potential breakouts). And if someone wanted to improve in SD, the practice and building materials would be a lot more abundant in a current meta (matches within seconds when queuing for vgc) as opposed to an older one (can take minutes to find dpp matches, and even then it may just be the same person over and over). 

 

Overall, it's an MMO event, so a showdown tier seems irrelevant in general, but if there has to be one, vgc would be my pick. Especially with the recent meta shift post DLC (adding new/old mons, moves, etc), a qualifier for x wouldn't necessarily be at an overwhelming advantage as it'll take time for everyone to settle in and you can use that time to bridge the gap.

Share this post


Link to post

Having showdown in general is a bad choice in my opinion and something i will vote for when i understand the other rules that are suggested fully and decide on them.. i agree with the no dubs manager choice. Lets not fool ourselves dubs as a format differs from singles which most people learn easier, its a game for a few people which most of the events show their dominance with relative ease.. to expand on the showdown argument, we have seen in various psls or even in the ongoing world cup players that don't play pokemmo sign up for it just because i assume their friends told them to for help.. this leads in disadvantages and confusing situations. Not only in the games themselves but in manager choices aswell.. there is a good possibility that a pokemmo player doesn't know showdown players and another player/manager might find easier to pick the said showdown player he knows without drawbacks on credits. Regarding the choices in the case a showdown tier being added, SSOU seems the no-brainer pick to me, dpp ou is outdated, we had enough of smou, vgc is a different concept of what we know(kinda fuels more the dubs v singles gaps), it doesn't even exist in our game. SSOU is singles, new meta and in my opinion a tier that the gap should be easier to be closed in case a pokemmo player wants to get into it.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Imabetheverybest1 said:

as thinknicer said its up to the community, just throwing in my opinion.

Up to the community indeed, but that doesn't mean that you can't campaign for the choices you think are best (as you've done, just letting others know). That's a big purpose of this thread.

 

Also if people are confused about some concepts in the OP don't be afraid to ask.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not super fond of showdown tiers in our future PSL either. In the past it made quite a lot of sense, because we were told that gen4 and gen5 will eventually arrive (and they did) so having players play DPP, making them learn the moves, strats and so on was actually beneficial for us all. Nowdays, when we can't really see the future generation mons/ moves on the horizon in MMO, I don't see a reason to include a Showdown tier. We have plenty of OU/ UU/ NU players who will not be given a chance in case the showdown tier will be picked and I doubt we would find at least 10 dedicated showdown players to fill the showdown tier spot.

 

Just argumentating my choice (no for showdown tiers).

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I'm not super fond of showdown tiers in our future PSL either. In the past it made quite a lot of sense, because we were told that gen4 and gen5 will eventually arrive (and they did) so having players play DPP, making them learn the moves, strats and so on was actually beneficial for us all. Nowdays, when we can't really see the future generation mons/ moves on the horizon in MMO, I don't see a reason to include a Showdown tier. We have plenty of OU/ UU/ NU players who will not be given a chance in case the showdown tier will be picked and I doubt we would find at least 10 dedicated showdown players to fill the showdown tier spot.

 

Just argumentating my choice (no for showdown tiers).

Sorry for bad english

 

The same argument can be used to play 5gen OU, with the introduction of legendaries (?) and HA in the near future people would've time to experiment new strats...

 

Imo if we would play any showdown tier would be 5gen ou otherwise i would rather vote for no showdown tiers 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Kaitha said:

Sorry for bad english

 

The same argument can be used to play 5gen OU, with the introduction of legendaries (?) and HA in the near future people would've time to experiment new strats...

 

Imo if we would play any showdown tier would be 5gen ou otherwise i would rather vote for no showdown tiers 

Tbh we've been talking and speculating about legendaries and HAs for 7 years (!) and they still are not here. I lost hope for them already and I doubt they will come anytime soon, if ever

Share this post


Link to post
26 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Tbh we've been talking and speculating about legendaries and HAs for 7 years (!) and they still are not here. I lost hope for them already and I doubt they will come anytime soon, if ever

tbh you are absolutly right

 

I've more hope for a vaccine for covid this year than dungeons coming this year

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

What are you talking about Forfi, we're gonna have dungeons any time now. ... you'll see.. Aaaaaany time now

Normally I'd give you a like but I don't like it

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Honestly if we do want to play sd tiers (although im starting lean with forf that we shouldn't) we should hold preseason showcase tourneys. It would give an opportunity to gauge how competitive a tier would be as well as allow mangers to see who can actually play.

Edited by Imabetheverybest1

Share this post


Link to post

world cup was my first mmo event so cant talk about past psl but in world cup most of the showdown matches were more intense then most dubs matches. it seems that there is small core group of good dubs players.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, iJulian said:

Dubs has 128 man tournaments, lc does not.

 

Staff decide on tournament sizes based on the historical playerbase of the tier.

 

So yeah, its quite simple: I happen to have a real argument and official evidence to support it. All you got is a meme. Dubs has more players than lc does and that's it.

 

image.png.fcbc584ee7393f83ca3a267b8e213e6f.png xd

 

image.png.1e8aa4ee2318149180e5c823be59b39e.png

 

I dare you to find a 32 man dubs CC let alone a 6x31/shiny (real) tournament.

 

That's not really the point. Doubles is more accessible since you can play your OU mons there. Half the players in those Doubles tournaments are just playing their OU rain team. That doesn't mean there are more Doubles players, just that the tournaments seats get taken faster. 

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Quinn010 said:

world cup was my first mmo event so cant talk about past psl but in world cup most of the showdown matches were more intense then most dubs matches. it seems that there is small core group of good dubs players.

Probably how you feel because our pool had great SMOU players but it wasn't the case with all pools really

Share this post


Link to post

-Can we add Gen8 LC to the showdown poll ?Showdown tiers shouldn't necessarily be OU, i remember a PSL season where we had gen 5/6 LC and it was really fun to watch.

-The classic 10sec auction is much better.

-Salary system is good.

-Doubles ain't a tier, well done.

-Forum polls are more accurate as you'd only need to worry about recently created accounts votes, while in the poll you created people can vote as many times as they want.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Probably how you feel because our pool had great SMOU players but it wasn't the case with all pools really

thats probally true but the fact in our group were 2dubs players that dont main the tier so far as i know

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.