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PSL XIII - Community Input / Discussion

Showdown or not  

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  1. 1. Showdown Tier (or not)?


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  • Poll closed on 07/19/20 at 10:59 PM

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Posted (edited)

 

PSL Community Input/Discussion 

(Where you can vote for next PSL format)

...

 

Hello everyone, as some of you may know already,  this time this PSL season is hosted by two players: ThinkNice, and pachima. This thread allows community to get their input on the layout of this PSL, by discussing the present ideas, and their execution.

@pachima pachima here. I have played PSL since season 5, mostly as a player, and more recently as a manager. Having experienced both sides of the best unofficial community event, I decided it was time to host, working with ThinkNice.

 

@ThinkNicer: Hey I’m ThinkNice(r). I felt like hosting another PSL, after a long hiatus. I am the original founder, and have hosted PSL I, II and III. This time I am working with Pachi to make the next season an excellent one.

 

We decided that it was important to let the community give their input in the new project, and therefore we offer you a couple of ideas to choose from.

 

 

Poll: 

Link for poll:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSet1FFDoIdU143f4b6qKHbBS7JgP07cltAOvVzaC1QJ00hUSA/viewform

 

Spoiler

 

  • Showdown tiers: - No showdown - DPP OU - SMOU - SSOU - VGC(Bo3) - DPP OU (Bo3) 

 

  • Tier Structure:

    • A: 2x OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, 2x Manager’s Choice (no Doubles)

    • B: OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown, 2x Manager’s Choice (no Doubles or Showdown)

    • C: 2x OU, 2x UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown

 

 

  • Reward Structure (Will be explained below):

    • Salary System

    • Standard System

 

 

  • Auction Structure (No drafts this time, auctions are hype, drafts are not)

    • Standard “Quick” style, in a snake format (quick as in 3-4 hours)

    • New “Quick” style (explained below)

    • New “Slow” style (That can take half a week, and also explained below)

 

 

Now  let us explain all those new changes we are offering to you. 

 

As an option, there is still the normal reward system, where the first three teams get the bulk of the prizes, as well as individual rewards in several categories. However, we came up with a new one that we are eager to share with you. In this new system, credits become salaries which are then used to “pay”  players at the end of the season. Salaries therefore use Pokemmo currency that are taken out from the donation pool, which may reduce the prizes given to the first three teams, but offer a much more engaging season (Who doesnt want to get paid?).

 

But how, you ask? Let us give you an example*: A manager gets ThinkTwice for 600k pokeyen (or the converted number into credits). That’s his salary, that’s how much ThinkTwice will receive at the end of the season, regardless of team placement. Note that only players who have won at least one game are paid their salary. (Unpaid salaries revert back to the rest of the donation pool)

 

But that’s not all folks. With the salary system comes the need for a mid-season. That’s where stuff gets interesting. First, all managers receive an equal amount of extra credits to spend during this week window. Furthermore the managers can now: Sell players, renew their contract and go Buyout. Let’s go over them one by one. 

 

Renewing a contract: managers may offer their players an increased salary (Until week5’s deadline), in which the player can either accept or refuse. If they accept, their salary matches the new amount, and that player is no longer available for further transactions with other managers. If they refuse, their salary isn’t increased, but other managers can attempt to buy them out.

 

Selling players: Managers may put players on the market, for a salary that can be adjusted, and other managers can then buy this player for the new salary value. In any case, the player will receive, at the end of the season, the value corresponding to the updated salary. (Common possible question: Why would managers want to sell the player for a lower salary? A: Because it increases the probability of having other managers buy that player, if you are unsure if the original price fits that player. Also you can only lower the salary of a player you put on market, so managers cannot purposely lower their manager salaries and have more resources)

 

Buyout: grants a manager the ability to buy a player that is in another team and that is both not listed on the market and has not renewed their contract. The minimum bid is 130% of their initial salary. The player’s manager can then either accept the trade, receiving the credits while losing the player, or they can outbid that value, to keep the player, while losing the extra credits used. The player now earns the updated salary. (Which means that players who over perform have an higher chance of seeing their salary increased)

 

Note that any manager can only attempt a buyout 5 times, and only once per player. 

 

An example of buyout:

Manager A (has 400.000 credits), Manager B (has 1.000.000 credits).

Manager A has player A with a salary of 600k. If manager B attempts to buyout this player, he must offer at least 30% of this value (at least 780k - rounded down to 750k). Manager A can then outbid this value if they want to keep the player, or they accept the credits in exchange for their player.

 

Finally, let’s talk about the auction style. As posted in the poll, we selected three layouts:

 

1 - Standard snake format in a fast auction, that needs no further explanation.

 

2 - Fast auction in a normal turn format. Here managers can bid on three different players per turn, only getting them after it's their turn again and no one has outbid them.

 

Example (with 3 managers):

 

Manager 1: 200k on ThinkTwice, 400k on Pochi and 50k on DJ

Manager 2: 500k on Pochi, 400k on Cash, 400k on Monie

Manager 3: 300k on ThinkTwice, 500k on Monie, 200k on BadPlayer

 

Now it’s manager first turn again, no one outbid him on DJ, so he gets DJ for 50k. Poor soul. 

 

Note: As comparison to other PSL credits system, 5m yen = 100 credits (Or, 1 credit = 50k yen) - This value may be lower depending on donation pool. Minimum outbid is 50k

 

3 - Third, a slow auction similar to seasons I and II. In here managers can bid on how many players they want and as many times as they want. Bid timers are 16 hours, meaning that if in 16 hours a player isn’t outbid, they go to the team that bid the highest. The advantage is that it enables a lot of strategic decision making and provides a lot of excitement for the week. Players can check in real time the names of the players, their current bid, and the corresponding manager in an excel sheet that is constantly updated by the managers themselves and the hosts. 



 

PSL Credit: the currency used to bid on players which also reflects player wage.

 

Managers: 6mil PSL Credit, (5m+ 1m at midseason) x 8 managers = 48m)

 

Competition end:(Teams)

5th, 6th, 7th and 8th: player bonus 0 / managers 0

4th:  player bonus 250k  / manager 500k 

3rd:  player bonus 500k / manager 1m

2nd: player bonus 750k  / manager 1.5m

1st: player bonus 1m / manager 3m

 

Based on 10 player per team total: Minimum donation required: 79m

 

Values will vary according to the donation pool. If less than 79m is gathered, the lower will be the salary system. If more than 79m are gathered, any extra will be converted to the first 3 teams. Also, unpaid salaries will be also converted to this "extra".

 

Which structure do you prefer and why? Feel free to discuss! And get hype.

General thread with a more detailed view of this, and rules to be posted at a later date. 

 

 

 


 

Edited by pachima

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I wish to use me veto on structure B and C because I see showdown tiers in those. There is a poll option on the forum btw. I think it's better to use that because otherwise you won't be able to know who is voting for what.

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Just now, gbwead said:

I wish to use me veto on structure B and C because I see showdown tiers in those. There is a poll option on the forum btw. I think it's better to use that because otherwise you won't be able to know who is voting for what.

Yes there is, but unfortunately it caps at 3 questions :(

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I like that there is voting for this, nice job. 

 

What is going to be done for managers playing the week. Can they play, not play, have to buy themselves in order to play maybe?

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, RLotus said:

I like that there is voting for this, nice job. 

 

What is going to be done for managers playing the week. Can they play, not play, have to buy themselves in order to play maybe?

Manager's wont be allowed to play. But there might be a certain week that managers can show off their battling skills :p

Edited by ThinkNicer

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1 minute ago, RLotus said:

have to buy themselves in order to play maybe?

I'm curious. What did you have in mind regarding this?

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Just now, gbwead said:

I'm curious. What did you have in mind regarding this?

They have to pay the amount that they went for in the last psl they played in order to play, similar to what other pls do on smogon.

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This makes 3 long team events in rapid succession, I don't think many people are going to play this. If they are the standard is going to be lower than usual as it will be half assed by most or the higher caliber players simply won't sign up. I don't think it is a smart idea to host one this soon.

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Sounds as an interesting concept but it is too soon for another big event. I think giving it some time to make it more anticipated and letting players rest from the constant preparation they ve been through with psl12 to World Cup shortly after (assuming they actually put the effort) will make it a better experience for both the players, the hosts and will probably attract more donations also.

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5 minutes ago, Lvkee said:

This makes 3 long team events in rapid succession, I don't think many people are going to play this. If they are the standard is going to be lower than usual as it will be half assed by most or the higher caliber players simply won't sign up. I don't think it is a smart idea to host one this soon.

This post is only to gather input from the community. After that we have to work on writing out rulings and everything else that goes into the general thread. Then we have to gather donations and then you'll have manager and player sign ups. All in all, it'll probably take 2 months before we even have the first league stage.

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Yes, it will take a minimum of 2-3 months before we even start this. As ThinkNice(r) said, we can only start preparing rules and general thread only after we get a final decision of what structures we will follow. But since the salary system is a completely new idea, we believe it's better to give players time to understand it, and to ask questions, if needed.

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41 minutes ago, pachima said:

3 - Third, a slow auction similar to seasons I and II. In here managers can bid on how many players they want and as many times as they want. Bid timers are 16 hours, meaning that if in 16 hours a player isn’t outbid, they go to the team that bid the highest. The advantage is that it enables a lot of strategic decision making and provides a lot of excitement for the week. Players can check in real time the names of the players, their current bid, and the corresponding manager in an excel sheet that is constantly updated by the managers themselves and the hosts. 

Your idea for this PSL is great. I'm so hyped specially for this one and now You gave us and explanation of how many time you will take to do all the rules give us more time to think about all of this and your new system.

The idea of the salary is great and refresh this tournament, give us the chance to feel a bit more worth to play the PSL and give us the chance to feel like a "real player" inside a pro team. 

Keep the good work and thank you. 

 

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????? why cant doubles be a managers choice?

 

That aside, I do preffer the options with managers choice because it makes the matchups less linear

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16 minutes ago, iJulian said:

????? why cant doubles be a managers choice?

Managers need to pick a tier. Doubles is not a tier. Therefore, they can't choose Doubles.

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38 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Managers need to pick a tier. Doubles is not a tier. Therefore, they can't choose Doubles.

that is dumb, rn (and with the coming update) dubs is played more than lc

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9 minutes ago, iJulian said:

that is dumb, rn (and with the coming update) dubs is played more than lc

 


Well if you double it's better that lc we will know soon but lc for me is better

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10 minutes ago, iJulian said:

that is dumb, rn (and with the coming update) dubs is played more than lc

that's fucking hilarious, good one

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IMO vgc in PSL is not a good idea. Last time we played (which I think was 7 but I’ve been dead so I might be wrong ) we had 2 players who were miles ahead in experience and actual success in the format.  Although currently idk how many competitive vgc players we have right now (all I know of are orange and zigh), having a tier that encourages dead/random players to put it down as a tier just to get picked is bad. Although if we do have 8+ decent players(top 500 on SD does not count) I would be down.

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1 hour ago, iJulian said:

????? why cant doubles be a managers choice?

Pachi and I decided on that restriction because we felt like, unlike the other tiers, there aren"t enough dedicated Doubles players for managers to draft. Meaning that managers can get an unfair advantage if they happen to have more experienced Doubles players on their team. It's the same case with Showdown. There aren't enough strong Showdown players for managers to reliably draft, so we don't want to give managers the option to potentially have 2 showdown tiers in a week.

 

17 minutes ago, Imabetheverybest1 said:

IMO vgc in PSL is not a good idea. Last time we played (which I think was 7 but I’ve been dead so I might be wrong ) we had 2 players who were miles ahead in experience and actual success in the format.  Although currently idk how many competitive vgc players we have right now (all I know of are orange and zigh), having a tier that encourages dead/random players to put it down as a tier just to get picked is bad. Although if we do have 8+ decent players(top 500 on SD does not count) I would be down.

Who knows, there might be better players now. The decision lies with the community, not with us as hosts. Personally I'd prefer DPP OU Bo3 and a slow auction or the new quick auction style (so we don't have to deal with stupid 10s timers) but so far the community has gone for VGC (34%) and standard auction (54%).

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3 hours ago, Imabetheverybest1 said:

IMO vgc in PSL is not a good idea. Last time we played (which I think was 7 but I’ve been dead so I might be wrong ) we had 2 players who were miles ahead in experience and actual success in the format.  Although currently idk how many competitive vgc players we have right now (all I know of are orange and zigh), having a tier that encourages dead/random players to put it down as a tier just to get picked is bad. Although if we do have 8+ decent players(top 500 on SD does not count) I would be down.

Imo I think this gens vgc was rlly newcomer friendly; people can perform well in it given time and effort. If showdown has to happen, why not play a current format 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, gbwead said:

that's fucking hilarious, good one

Dubs has 128 man tournaments, lc does not.

 

Staff decide on tournament sizes based on the historical playerbase of the tier.

 

So yeah, its quite simple: I happen to have a real argument and official evidence to support it. All you got is a meme. Dubs has more players than lc does and that's it.

 

image.png.fcbc584ee7393f83ca3a267b8e213e6f.png xd

 

image.png.1e8aa4ee2318149180e5c823be59b39e.png

 

I dare you to find a 32 man dubs CC let alone a 6x31/shiny (real) tournament.

 

Edited by iJulian

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Ign: zDaryl

Showdown name DarylDixontwd

 

Tiers: Nu mmo, OU gen8, UU gen8

 

oh wait isn't psl XIII SIGN UP F

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, calidubstep said:

Imo I think this gens vgc was rlly newcomer friendly; people can perform well in it given time and effort. If showdown has to happen, why not play a current format 

I agree that it is more newcomer friendly and easy to get into, I'm just coming from the point that someone might be a lot more skilled then the rest of the roster. If a worlds level player signups vs a roster of newer players they are gonna dominate. Sure anybody can beat them (its Pokémon), but the odds of them just blowing through the rest of the roster kinda makes the tier stale. Its kinda like if in 2015 Frags or Bowser were playing new OU players in verm. Sure they could win but no one sees it as a competitive match. But  like I said before Idk who actually plays VGC and as thinknicer said its up to the community, just throwing in my opinion.

Edited by Imabetheverybest1

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