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PSL XIII - Community Input / Discussion


Showdown or not  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Showdown Tier (or not)?


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  • Poll closed on 07/19/20 at 10:59 PM

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8 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

I'd like to chime in here to say that you'll have bad matches in any tier, at any point.  This is not exclusive to showdown. Managers are supposed to counteract this somewhat.

Thats fair, I mean in this previous WC we saw this a fair bit, however the skill gap in showdown tiers has always been larger and far more noticeable than in MMO tiers.

 

9 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

Because a managers role is not only to pick a team in the draft and then send a few line ups through the season. A manager should foster as much competitiveness in their team as possible. Having players that are better, teach the ones that are not. Making sure that everyone helps out with teambuilding and strategy discussions. If the team has no strong showdown/doubles/whatever player, the manager should guide the team into resources and ways to practise together.

I understand, the season I was manager I bought Sweet for DPP and basically had a guaranteed win EVERY week,  sure this isnt necessarily something unique to showdown tiers, however in a tier that lacks the same number of people (MMO players) in the player base it becomes a lot more noticeable, and one or two players completely dominate the tier, whilst others (whilst sure getting better as the season goes on) only reach the point of understanding that hey maybe I cant burn that tapu fini when the terrain is up after a few weeks has gone by. It also becomes difficult in trying to get the better players that can teach the new ones in a showdown tier, since if you get a player whos good at the showdown tier, you may as well just run the good player and get a free win each week.

 

14 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

PSL is a massive collaborative team event. So I've never understood the argument that 'everyone is trash in this tier so don't put it in PSL'. Any good manager, or good team, will make sure that their players get stronger throughout the season. So that at the end of the season you have many more excellent players that can carry the torch to the next set of new players.

Quite honestly I've seen 3 types of teams in psls: 1. The team that does this, work together to get better, and its great. 2. The team that is mostly quiet and just there to play their games each week. 3. The team that gets one or two players to coach everyone, and when you have players who dont understand these showdown tiers (though again I understand not exclusive to showdown, just more common due to the things I mentioned above) coaching becomes more common.

 

tl;dr: The lack of mmo playerbase and understanding in these showdown tiers lead to larger skill gaps, lower quality games. Managers who buy the few good showdown players are almost guaranteed a win each week, getting better and improving on a showdown tier relies heavily on having a good showdown player to begin with (we've reached a circle) and tiers like showdown (of course not exclusively showdown) tend to be tiers that have the most coaching/ghosting, especially when the top showdown players are also top mmo players. Oh boy that was a longer response than I intended, I do see your point though, these concerns and issues to exist within all the tiers, they just seemed to be magnified in showdown tiers

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5 minutes ago, AndrewHavsha said:

I understand, the season I was manager I bought Sweet for DPP and basically had a guaranteed win EVERY week,  sure this isnt necessarily something unique to showdown tiers, however in a tier that lacks the same number of people (MMO players) in the player base it becomes a lot more noticeable, and one or two players completely dominate the tier, whilst others (whilst sure getting better as the season goes on) only reach the point of understanding that hey maybe I cant burn that tapu fini when the terrain is up after a few weeks has gone by. It also becomes difficult in trying to get the better players that can teach the new ones in a showdown tier, since if you get a player whos good at the showdown tier, you may as well just run the good player and get a free win each week.

its pokemon a decent player that know how the game work can win agaisnt the better player (i dont mean rng can save you with this) 

Edited by Quinn010
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- Based on the input gathered from this thread as well from in-game, it seems that restricting doubles in the manager's choice is no longer ideal. As such, we'll be allowing Doubles  in manager's choice.

The poll is available until the end of this week. Depending on the final results, a second poll may or not be created. Remember to vote if you haven't already.

- In-depth rules will be given in the general thread, as well as playoff formats as well as other things regarding the new systems, if chosen.

 

Now, facts aside, regarding Showdown, I believe that:

 

- There is a large skill gap in SD tiers, probably bigger than any MMO tier/format (Community is far more competent in judging this fact than I am, so we are offering you the chance to get your input in this thing)

- This is PSL, not SPL, and we do not have to homage anything regarding showdown.

- PSL is THE competitive community event, and as such we should aim for the most competitive format.

On the other hand:

- PS is more user-friendly

- No grind involved.

- Attracts more players?

That is just my opinion btw.

Please refrain from attacking each other. If you want to express your opinion, do so in the poll and explain why you chose so objectively. Thank you everyone.

Also, get hype.

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I would make players sign up for any Showdown tier available and after seeing how many people signed for which tier, we can pick a showdown tier based on it's popularity in the MMO community and if the effects would be unsatisfactory (such as not enough sign ups in any of the showdown tier) then we can just use another MMO tier or allow a Captain's choice. I wouldn't want to push a tier onto community if they wouldn't want to play it

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9 hours ago, Umbramol said:

@Gunthug it is opinionated.. i strongly believe that if we don't pay our respects noone will care and we have a big enough community in pokemmo ( the game we all play and talk about) to be able to have enough good (supposedly) players grabbing the spots for this event.. all this showdown argument to me feels like a desperate effort to fit in dead players while new players in this game do the grind, put the effort and want to prove themselves in here. Personally it doesn't interest me to have a way to fit in players that used to be good in this game in 2013-14 and just play showdown now and yes that might be biased cause im not an old player myself but it is a fact that newer less recognised players will put more effort than old inactive ones.. i strongly prefer giving those people a chance than using a spot to pay respects ( to showdown and older players that don't play the mmo anymore)

Umbra I respect your opinion but I think your mistake is in believing only old players will play the showdown tier. There are plenty of active players who put the time into MMO while also simply enjoying the many diverse and exciting meta games showdown has to offer. 
 

The other thing to consider is that the older mmo players HAVE put in the work before. Many of the old guard who would have access to a psl slot with a showdown tier have done far more to promote and contribute to PSL and MMO than the newer players. And again, they’re not asking for much. 10% of representation tier wise? Less if managers choice? 

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20 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Why are people voting for quick standard style when new slow style seems to provide much more drama and excitement?

 

12 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

Yeah fuck showdown. This is the real issue we have to address

Well the people who are voting aren't the ones who have to do the enormous logistical gymnastics to make the quick standard style auction happen. Additionally, I can think of like 5 or 6 people who were even around for the psl2 slow auction draft, so it's hype potential is lost on many. Just make an executive decision and lets reintroduce the best auction format in psl history

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First of all, I'd like to say that I'm completely unbiased when it comes to this. I just want to educate the public.

 

A slow auction maybe has a negative ring to it. But it is a truly amazing way to kick off PSL, it will instantly create rivalries and stories. A slow auction is also way more engaging for all the players. How many players are able to show up for the quick draft, half maybe? 60%? While I can guarantee you that every single player in the PSL can keep up with the slower auction format and be able to talk alongside everyone, discussing the current bids, speculating future bids, trashtalking manager decisions etc. 

 

Further more a slow auction is easier to set up and allows managers to discuss with themselves and even players they bought early on in the auction. Also something I thought was hilarious and amazing at the same time, is that players that didn't get bid on started to advertise their achievements in the discussion pages. 

 

All in all, in PSL 3 I chose to go for a quick auction, because I wanted to give it a try. But if I would've hosted PSL 4 after, I would've gone back to the slower variant, no questions asked.

 

So change your vote today! 

Edited by ThinkNicer
#SlowDraft2020
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39 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm completely unbiased when it comes to this. I just want to educate the public.

 

A slow auction maybe has a negative ring to it. But it is a truly amazing way to kick off PSL, it will instantly create rivalries and stories. A slow auction is also way more engaging for all the players. How many players are able to show up for the quick draft, half maybe? 60%? While I can guarantee you that every single player in the PSL can keep up with the slower auction format and be able to talk alongside everyone, discussing the current bids, speculating future bids, trashtalking manager decisions etc. 

 

Further more a slow auction is easier to set up and allows managers to discuss with themselves and even players they bought early on in the auction. Also something I thought was hilarious and amazing at the same time, is that players that didn't get bid on started to advertise their achievements in the discussion pages. 

 

All in all, in PSL 3 I chose to go for a quick auction, because I wanted to give it a try. But if I would've hosted PSL 4 after, I would've gone back to the slower variant, no questions asked.

 

So change your vote today! 

Im pretty sold I kinda want to change my vote... but, the one thing I love about quick auctions tho is people going apeshit in the general discord chat (i.e, when cali and I went into a 70 credit battle for aurum).  So the question then becomes: is trashtalking/shitposting allowed in the slow bidding thread?

 

Also my quick 2 cents as to why quick auction might be winning so heavily. For once, slow as word sound boring even if it might be more hype than the quick format. I would't know that because I wasnt there for psl's 1 to 3. There's also the fact that one of the last psls had a draft instead of the classic auction and it was a snoozefest that failed misserably, people might feel like not running any further experiments and just stick to the devil they know (again, as most current players Id say werent here for early psls)

Edited by iJulian
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48 minutes ago, ThinkNicer said:

First of all, I'd like to say that I'm completely unbiased when it comes to this. I just want to educate the public.

 

A slow auction maybe has a negative ring to it. But it is a truly amazing way to kick off PSL, it will instantly create rivalries and stories. A slow auction is also way more engaging for all the players. How many players are able to show up for the quick draft, half maybe? 60%? While I can guarantee you that every single player in the PSL can keep up with the slower auction format and be able to talk alongside everyone, discussing the current bids, speculating future bids, trashtalking manager decisions etc. 

 

Further more a slow auction is easier to set up and allows managers to discuss with themselves and even players they bought early on in the auction. Also something I thought was hilarious and amazing at the same time, is that players that didn't get bid on started to advertise their achievements in the discussion pages. 

 

All in all, in PSL 3 I chose to go for a quick auction, because I wanted to give it a try. But if I would've hosted PSL 4 after, I would've gone back to the slower variant, no questions asked.

 

So change your vote today! 

Don't forget the strategy of choose a player which a manager was pushing all the slow draft just to make him mad.  

#slowdrafthype

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27 minutes ago, iJulian said:

.  So the question then becomes: is trashtalking/shitposting allowed in the slow bidding thread?

As far as I'm concerned it is, I as long as it is in the bounds of the rules. I guess you can be harsher on discord :p Because the idea is to have a discussion channel on discord, while also being able to post in the general thread about the ongoing auction.

 

11 minutes ago, redbluegreen said:

Sold. Is it possible to change votes without having to submit new answers for everything, since that would skew the other results.

Yes, PM me if you want to change it and I can remove your old vote so you can add the new one.

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just checked the poll's current input and it still has the old answers mixed with the new ones, and " 2x OU, 2x UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown " was in both. Doesnt that mean is getting votes from both the previous and the current poll? might explain why is winning instead of a managers choice answer.

 

Edited by Zigh
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9 minutes ago, Zigh said:

just checked the poll's current input and it still has the old answers mixed with the new ones, and " 2x OU, 2x UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown " was in both. Doesnt that mean is getting votes from both the previous and the current poll? might explain why is winning instead of a managers choice answer.

 

I'll be adding the manager choice ones together.

 

To clarify I'll add together:

2x OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, 2x Manager’s Choice  with 2x OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, 2x Manager’s Choice (no Doubles)

 

And OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown, 2x Manager’s Choice (no Showdown) with OU, UU, NU, LC, Doubles, Showdown, 2x Manager’s Choice (no doubles or Showdown)

Edited by ThinkNicer
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10 hours ago, AndrewHavsha said:

Because the skill level difference in showdown Tiers is extremely high, we saw this this world cup, people did not understand the mechanics yet alone the meta. The sm ladder is active so it wasn't an issue of not being able to practice. 

Because I believe having each manager have a choice of a tier each week would make things more exciting and create more hype than watching 2 people who don’t understand a tier play against each other. 

But yeah I mean I AM a showdown player, I've played showdown Tiers for the last few wc and psls I've joined, and after spending all week building and practicing my team to run into a player who doesn't understand basic mechanics is kinda lame. I feel like it would be best for everyone to at least experiment with a purely mmo based psl. That being said I mean I wouldnt be distraught if showdown tier was included, for the 75% terrible games there is always 1 or 2 gems that's a pleasure to watch/compete in 

World Cup isn't the best example, since you can't actually pick players, you gotta play with the ones you have, and most countries didn't have showdown players. People who sucked at SM were just plain bad (in showdown and mmo) and/or had 0 interest in improving. None of this should happen in PSL, as long as managers do good drafts

Edited by Moi
grammar
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Reminder that the poll ends at the end of Saturday. Vote if you haven't already. And if you want to change any of your choices, speak to ThinkNice.

Regarding community input, right now Layout A is winning with 47,1% (This means no Showdown, remember doubles are now allowed in the manager's choices). Salary System with 62%, and a tie between the standard quick auction and the new slow auction. (Which I'd rather tiebreak in the first poll)

Make sure to understand all new designs, and ask us if any question arises. We would be glad to see you discuss and share your opinions, in order to "convert" other players.

Get hype!

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