xXBlu3BreathXx Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) Welcome to the OU Viability Rankings Thread. If you do not know what a viability thread entails read further. A viability thread has as purpose to put Pokémon into 'ranks', by lack of a better term. In the OU viability rankings we base our rankings on how viable certain Pokémon in OU are. Discussion is encouraged and remember that you are always entitled to your opinion but forget not to be respectful to other community members. The rankings will be based on how well a Pokemon performs its role(s) in the metagame; these roles cover how well it performs in the offensive, defensive and supportive characteristics. This means a Pokemon will be in a higher rank depending on how well it performs its role(s) and a Pokemon can fit into the same rank as something that fills a different role. If you have any suggestions for Pokemon not on the viability list feel free to express your opinion but please provide an explanation as to why you believe it fits in the OU metagame. The older viability rankings were outdated so I decided to make a new one. The initial list bellow was made in collaboration with LifeStyle. This list will be updated more frequently on this discord server, please join in the discussion as well: https://discord.gg/MKtjuzyMkv Resources for Discussion Damage Calculator *Subject to mechanic differences https://www.smogon.com/dex/bw/pokemon/ *Subject to mechanic differences Tiering Etiquette Guide _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ PokeMMO OU Viability Ranking S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the OU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. S Rank: Conkeldurr Rotom Wash A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits. A+ Rank: Garchomp Scizor Reuniclus A Rank: Tyranitar Gengar Ferrothorn Hydreigon Excadrill Infernape Blissey A- Rank: Salamence Breloom Togekiss Dragonite Gliscor Volcarona Skarmory B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. B+ Rank: Starmie Kingdra Cofagrigus Pelipper Hippowdon Jellicent Gyarados Dugtrio Milotic B Rank: Chansey Tentacruel Rotom Mow Mienshao Magnezone Gastrodon Porygon 2 ChandelureCloyster B- Rank: Swampert Kabutops Jolteon Mamoswine Darmanitan Mandibuzz Weavile Heracross Lucario Sigilyph Venusaur Crobat Metagross Ludicolo C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame. C Rank: Bronzong Electrode Wobbuffet Aerodactyl Whimsicott Haxorus Dusclops Arcanine Snorlax Porygon-Z Torkoal Zoroark Toxicroak Spoiler No Special Note for the time being Edited February 3, 2021 by xXBlu3BreathXx AugustRed, ARCTlC, Paul and 22 others 24 1 Link to comment
Archon Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) I think Gastrodon should be higher. It completely shuts down Rotom-Wash, which is one of the most prevalent mons in the tier, and can wall and kill other popular mons in the meta like Garchomp, Scizor, and Infernape among many others thanks to its access to recover and ice beam. Also its 4x weakness in grass is under-represented in OU, with Ferrothorn and Breloom, and sometimes Ludicolo and Rotom-Mow, being the only grass mons played. Also, what makes Bronzong viable enough in OU to be B-Rank? Edited May 11, 2020 by Archon Bronzong TBGReFaked 1 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 120-142 (55 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery > There's also Grass Knot Ape +2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 203-239 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO > There's also Yache Berry variants +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 200-238 (91.7 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO > There's also CB U-Turn It does shut down the most common Rotom-Wash set, but that is usually paired with Ferrothorn. I think Gastrodon's main OU purposes are switching into Water spam from Kingdra/Kabutops, hard walling Life Orb Arcanine, blocking volt switch from Jolteon/Rotom-Wash and switching into some Gyarados/Darmanitans. All of these aren't really something hard to cover with some proper teambuilding, so Gastrodon is usually not needed to fill these roles. Bronzong is a pretty cool "anti-sand" mon since it checks Excadrill, Hippo and to a lesser extent Tyranitar and """Garchomp""" while not being freely trapped by Magnezone. As a Stealth Rocker it annoys most defoggers with its typing + bulk + being able to Toxic them. Those traits set him slightly above the stuff in B-, imo. Archon, TBGReFaked, xXBlu3BreathXx and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 (edited) i think Rotom Wash can be S rank. (i will write this in spanish and before will posting english traslate. I write this post ultrafastly becouse im working. Please wait traduction or use google, i tried to use standars words for traductors) Rotom tiene, al menos, 3 funciones que puede cumplir con un grado muy ato de eficiencia e incluso algunos elementos interesantes para sorprender. Que tenga acceso a "Despejar" lo convierte en uno de los más atractivos limpia mierdas del meta. Podemos decir además a su favor, que tiene un move pool de movimientos de estado (cómo fuego fatuo, como divide dolor, como trick e incluso chispazo) interesante y ciertamente, hinchapelotas (molesto). Recordemos que el único tipo que le afecta a rotom es el tipo planta y que no tiene tanto nicho en el meta OU. Es necesario hacer notar como punto debil que, si bien su set ofensivo es muy interesante en stab (eléctrico y agua) porque es dificil pararlo de manera integral (sólo ferrothorn y gastrodon, o bien blissey chansey. Veremos que tan importante es esto) pero es tremendamente limitado en otra cobertura que no sea a través de poder oculto siendo esta su principal desventaja junto a la vulnerabilidad a los ataques prioritarios. Ahora bien, quiero que consideremos que las debilidades de rotom pueden no ser tan graves en varias circusustancias, mientras que sus beneficios son tremendamente condicionantes para los rivales. Su set estandar es el "bulky attacker" que se puede buildear de diferentes maneras, la mas frecuente se parece a esto: Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers Modest Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump - Defog - Pain Split Las alternativas están en el reparto de evs - tomo aqui arriba el de smogon de quinta gen- se puede hacer más rápido y/o con más ataque especial y variar los movimientos de estado (por ejemplo con fuego fatuo, con chispazo, con algún poder oculto) como entenderán esto es una TREMENDA versatiidad y muy dificil de predecir. Otra alternativa muy frecuente es el defoger scarf: Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf Timid/Modest Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump - Defog - Trick Este set es capaz de atrapar a los principales counters (chansey, gastrodon y ferrothorn), anularlos, y escapar con voltio cambio (salvo gastrodon). Tenemos el recurso extra de acceder a despejar después de hacer truco, o en determnadas situaciones un defog emergencia con velocidad aumentada. Ni mencionar, lo tremendamente molesto que puede resultar este set si se acompaña con un turn/switch. Debemos considerar otras dos opciones menos frecuentes pero perfectamente viables: Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs Modest Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / Discharge - Hydro Pump - Hidden Power Fire - Trick / Discharge 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Ferrothorn: 184-220 (101.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 186-219 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 205-243 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 172-204 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO Tambien podemos mencionar sets defensivos, con natulareza serena (calm +sp.def - atk) y fuego fatuo con una velocidad base más que decente, para transformarlo en un wall equilibrado que se beneficiará de divide dolor. Con todo esto, quiero decir que quizá Rotom no tenga la capacidad de swepear un equipo completo como lo hace Garchomp, pero resulta dificil imaginarse un equipo en el que pueda no encajar. Las debilidades de Rotom Wash son facilmente contrarestables con otros miembros del equipo y en varias circunstancias por el mismo Rotom según que set. Estamos ante un claro ejemplo de un centralizador de metajuego y por ende hay que pensar en él como un pokemon de viabilidad S- / S. Edited May 14, 2020 by aZaz07 JorgeFirebolt, gbwead and branYT 3 Link to comment
xXBlu3BreathXx Posted May 15, 2020 Author Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) On 5/13/2020 at 11:09 PM, aZaz07 said: Spoiler i think Rotom Wash can be S rank. (i will write this in spanish and before will posting english traslate. I write this post ultrafastly becouse im working. Please wait traduction or use google, i tried to use standars words for traductors) Rotom has at least 3 functions that can fulfill a very high degree of efficiency and even some interesting elements to surprise. That it has access to "Clear" makes it one of the most attractive metal shit cleaners. We can also say in its favor, that it has a move pool of state movements (like wildfire, as it divides pain, as a trick and even a spark) that is interesting and certainly, ballistic (annoying). Remember that the only type that affects rotom is the plant type and that it does not have as much niche in the meta OU. It is necessary to point out as a weak point that, although his offensive set is very interesting in stab (electric and water) because it is difficult to stop it comprehensively (only ferrothorn and gastrodon, or blissey chansey. Now, I want us to consider that rotom's weaknesses may not be as severe in various circumstances, while its benefits are tremendously conditioning for rivals. Its standard set is the "bulky attacker" that can be buildear in different ways, the most frequent looks like this: Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers Modest Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump - Defog - Pain Split The alternatives are in the cast of evs - I take the fifth gen smogon up here - it can be done faster and / or with more special attack and vary the state movements (for example with wildfire, with a spark, with some power hidden) as you will understand this is an AWESOME versatility and very difficult to predict. Another very frequent alternative is the defoger scarf: Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf Timid/Modest Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump - Defog - Trick This set is capable of catching the main counters (chansey, gastrodon, and ferrothorn), bypassing them, and escaping with volt change (except gastrodon). We have the extra resource of agreeing to clear after doing a trick, or in certain situations, an emergency defog with increased speed. Not to mention, how tremendously annoying this set can be if accompanied by a turn / switch. We must consider two other less frequent but perfectly viable options: Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs Modest Nature Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe - Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / Discharge - Hydro Pump - Hidden Power Fire - Trick / Discharge 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Ferrothorn: 184-220 (101.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 186-219 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 205-243 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO 252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 172-204 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO We can also mention defensive sets, with serene natures (calm + sp.def - atk) and wildfire with a more than decent base speed, to transform it into a balanced wall that will benefit from divided pain. With all of this, I mean Rotom may not have the ability to sweep a full team like Garchomp does, but it's hard to imagine a team that might not fit. Rotom Wash's weaknesses are easily countered by other team members and in various circumstances by Rotom himself depending on which set. We are facing a clear example of a metagame centralizer and therefore you have to think of it as a S- / S viability pokemon. Rotom-Wash is definitely a top tier choice in the OU metagame but it has a few flaws: Gastrodon and Ferrothorn gladly switch into it unless you have hidden power grass/fire specifically to counter them 4 move slot syndrome, it cannot run every move it desires often times only running one electric move (giving up momentum or power) and hydro pump. This only leaves two slots with a plethora of good options but could be detrimental if you don't have the right one. Volt switch can be blocked by ground types, while risky to switch them in it could shut down all of your momentum if choice locked. No reliable recovery, Rotom must make use of 50% recovery berries or pain split. This makes it pretty good at checking threats but it will eventually get whittled down. Low base HP makes tanking a bit difficult. Edited May 15, 2020 by xXBlu3BreathXx aZaz07, JorgeFirebolt, LifeStyleNORE and 3 others 6 Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) Ty for the traslation Yes, I agree with you in those points. I also have to say that the relative of those weaknesses are what makes me think that rotom is above the rest of A +. 1. Agree... Hp/trick relieve complications without disappearing. 2. Agree. Advantage and disadvantage. 3. But block Rotom with grounds types its risky too. Rotom can gives 2KO at all ground/VoltAbsorb of the meta with hydro pump. 4, 5. Yei. Only can use PS in the bulks sets. Maybe use - S viability reflect thats points. U think (for example) what Tyranitar its viability as Rotom? Try to use Tyranitar not choice sets now... This I try to say. The variety of sets that Rotom can carry with a level of success above the rest should give it a different status. Edited May 15, 2020 by aZaz07 branYT 1 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 1 hour ago, aZaz07 said: Maybe use - S viability reflect thats points. U think (for example) what Tyranitar its viability as Rotom? Try to use Tyranitar not choice sets now... This I try to say. The variety of sets that Rotom can carry with a level of success above the rest should give it a different status. S- doesn't really make sense to have as a rank, since that implies would should also have a S+ rank. There's only one mon that deserves S in the current metagame and that mon is Garchomp, there's nothing else on par with it when it comes to risk vs reward. Out of all the mons in A+ you chose to compare Rotom with Tyranitar, which I find weird since Tyranitar is by far the most versatile out of the bunch. Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 58 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said: S- doesn't really make sense to have as a rank, since that implies would should also have a S+ rank. I can understand this, in a sense it is just as you say. Although I still think it is debatable for the reasons of before. 1 hour ago, LifeStyleNORE said: Out of all the mons in A+ you chose to compare Rotom with Tyranitar, which I find weird since Tyranitar is by far the most versatile out of the bunch. I'm not sure I can understand what you want to get at with this. It's funny that you talk about garchomp first and then talk about the versatility of a pokemon that has a poor performance against it (removing some mixed set with Ice Beam against garchomps without berry). You can have all the move pool in the world, if you are killed by garchomp, scizor and conkeldur you are no better than Rotom. Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, aZaz07 said: I'm not sure I can understand what you want to get at with this. It's funny that you talk about garchomp first and then talk about the versatility of a pokemon that has a poor performance against it (removing some mixed set with Ice Beam against garchomps without berry). You can have all the move pool in the world, if you are killed by garchomp, scizor and conkeldur you are no better than Rotom. - Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam doesn't let Garchomp get up a free SD (unless Yache, which I don't believe is the most common item) - Fire Blast Tyranitar can speed creep CB Scizor and OHKO it (and can use Babiri Berry) - Can't really do nothing to Conk besides CB Superpower doing a good chunk (or Stone Edge if it crits) The point is Tyranitar can be a lot of things, and you can never really guess what it's going to pull out of a hat. Rotom-Wash is a really good support mon, but it's not that versatile. It usually carries Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, and looking at your opponent's team, you can usually take a guess on if it's the Defogger or not. But what if it's Trick+Defog? Then it won't have recovery. But what if it's Trick+Defog+Pain Split? Then it only has 1 damage move. I could go on and on but it's pretty obvious Rotom is not as versatile as something that can be Banded, Scarf, set up Rocks, or run a bunch of random moves + items to lure in common checks. While also setting up sand... Moving on, versatility =/= being good or not. Nobody said that Tyranitar is "better" than Rotom, it's just more versatile aka has more moveset options / team roles. This is also the Viability Thread, not the "this guy kills these other guys so he should be higher" Thread. Hitmontop beats Tyranitar and yet you don't see it listed. Why? Because it's not viable in the metagame as a whole. So yeah, Rotom-W shouldn't be higher just because it beats Scizor or Tyranitar, they're equally viable in general terms. Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. Edited May 15, 2020 by LifeStyleNORE Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 15, 2020 Share Posted May 15, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam doesn't let Garchomp get up a free SD (unless Yache, which I don't believe is the most common item) - Fire Blast Tyranitar can speed creep CB Scizor and OHKO it (and can use Babiri Berry) - Can't really do nothing to Conk besides CB Superpower doing a good chunk (or Stone Edge if it crits) Lo encuentro rebuscado, quizá mi inglés no me pemirte aclarar algunas cosas - ciertamente también pienso que no hace falta aclarar que Tyranitar es vulnerable a 3 cosas muy usadas y peligrosas del OU y que eso lo deja en una posición de viabilidad que es diferente, por ejemplo, a la de Rotom- en cualquier caso estos 3 puntos lo considerable es que sin hacer bullet punch Tyranitar puede darle fire blast a Scizor. Tyranitar es debil contra Conkeldur y solo puede aspirar al "good chunk". Sobre Garchomp y Tyranitar ya había dicho que el ice beam puede dañar si es un set sin Yache (que la veo bastante más común que Berry en Tyranitar). 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: The point is Tyranitar can be a lot of things, and you can never really guess what it's going to pull out of a hat. Rotom-Wash is a really good support mon, but it's not that versatile. It usually carries Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, and looking at your opponent's team, you can usually take a guess on if it's the Defogger or not. But what if it's Trick+Defog? Then it won't have recovery. But what if it's Trick+Defog+Pain Split? Then it only has 1 damage move. Este es el aporte interesante de la discusión. 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: This is also the Viability Thread, not the "this guy kills these other guys so he should be higher" Thread Pensé que justamente por ello escribí tres posteos analizando a Rotom. Quizá exageres al decirlo, voy a interpretar esto como "el calor de las discusiones" no veo que sea una contribución valiosa. 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. Esto es interesante, Rotom está en el puesto 11 de los más usados de OU. Tengo la impresión de que Rotom es mucho más frecuente en los duelos de mayor leader. No puedo comprobarlo. En cierto sentido, también pienso que esto va a comenzar a cambiar en los proximos meses y que sucederá similar al Garchomp. Recordemos que este es su cuarto mes y en todos viene subiendo varios puestos, si alguien tiene una SS para verificarlo lo agradezco, solo lo digo de memoria puedo equivocarme. También hay que considerar que estamos viendo unas estadisticas muy cambiantes, aun cuando wobbu estaba en el juego. Es probable que Rotom suba varios puestos a medida que pase el tiempo. Aunque si de esto se trata, podemos volver a dar la discusión el proximo mes con los nuevos usage si los argumentos no te parecen suficientes. Saludos. Traslate Spoiler 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam doesn't let Garchomp get up a free SD (unless Yache, which I don't believe is the most common item) - Fire Blast Tyranitar can speed creep CB Scizor and OHKO it (and can use Babiri Berry) - Can't really do nothing to Conk besides CB Superpower doing a good chunk (or Stone Edge if it crits) I find it far-fetched, perhaps my English does not allow me to clarify some things - I also think that it is not necessary to clarify that Tyranitar is vulnerability to 3 very used and dangerous mons of the OU and that leaves it in a position of viability that is different, for example To Rotom's - in any case, these 3 points, the considerable thing is that without making a bullet punch, Tyranitar can give Scizor fire blast. Tyranitar is weak against Conkeldur and can only aspire to "good chunk". About Garchomp and Tyranitar I had already said that the ice beam can damage if it is a set without Yache (which I see much more common than Berry in Tyranitar). 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: The point is Tyranitar can be a lot of things, and you can never really guess what it's going to pull out of a hat. Rotom-Wash is a really good support mon, but it's not that versatile. It usually carries Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, and looking at your opponent's team, you can usually take a guess on if it's the Defogger or not. But what if it's Trick+Defog? Then it won't have recovery. But what if it's Trick+Defog+Pain Split? Then it only has 1 damage move. This is the interesting contribution of the discussion. 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: This is also the Viability Thread, not the "this guy kills these other guys so he should be higher" Thread I thought that was precisely why I wrote three posts analyzing Rotom. Maybe you exaggerate when saying it, I am going to interpret this like "the heat of the discussions" I do not see that it contributes to say it. 2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said: Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. This is interesting, Rotom is ranked 11th among the most used in OU. I have the impression that Rotom is much more frequent in higher leader duels. I can't verify it. In a sense, I also think that this is going to start to change in the coming months and that it will happen similar to the Garchomp. Remember that this is your fourth month and in the updates you go up several steps, if someone has an SS to verify it, I appreciate it, I only say it from memory I can be wrong.We must also consider that we are seeing very changing statistics, and part of them even when wobbu was in the game. Rotom is likely to climb several places as time goes by.Although if this is about, we can return to give the discussion next month with the new usage if the arguments do not seem enough. Thanks for the answers. Edited May 15, 2020 by aZaz07 Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 5:42 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: S Rank: Garchomp Cmon, this needs to be S ++. Link to comment
pachima Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 5 hours ago, gbwead said: Cmon, this needs to be Uber fify TohnR and gbwead 2 Link to comment
SweeTforU Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 volc A atleast, zong shouldnt be that high Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 IMO: Infernape A --> A-/B+ Kingdra A --> B Pelipper A --> B+ Haxorus C --> D Dusclops C --> D Electrode B- --> C Lucario B --> B- Bronzong B --> C Electrode B- --> C Dugtrio A- --> B Bisharp B- --> C Tentacruel B --> B+ Chandelure B- --> B+ Milotic B+ --> A Darmanitan B+ --> B- Jolteon B- --> B Excadrill A --> A- Blissey B- --> A- Kabutops B+ --> B Reuniclus B+ --> A- Link to comment
gbwead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 @MadaraSixSix's viability rankings: S garchomp rotom A+ scizor conk A ttar salamence dnite hydreigon ferro gengar togekiss pelipper cofagrigus milotic umbreon A- reuniclus skarmory excadrill cloyster mandibuzz chandelure B+ kingdra volcarona tentacruel breloom dugtrio mienshao gastrodon B starmie lucario blissey porygon2 B- infernape kabutops gliscor darmanitan gyarados hippowdon magnezone ludicolo C chansey swampert jolteon mateusvictor and aZaz07 2 Link to comment
RysPicz Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I believe Scizor is S in our metagame. It's typing, movepool and the fact that it's so easily splashable into pretty much every team you want to run (rain archetype, offensive, defensive, balanced), powerful STAB priority, STAB U-turn are just making it super viable in our metagame and it will almost always perform well. Running it pretty much has no drawbacks, same goes for Chomp. I do not believe TTar is A+, though. With abundance of Conks and Scizors I could see it as "A" as best, even though it pains me to say that cuz I love that mon gbwead 1 Link to comment
KingBowser Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Think Skarmory should be lower, b+ or A-. It really struggles to set up rocks/spikes without sacrificing all of its health. Dragons all seem to have a fire move for it, rotoms defogs it, rain teams get their free set ups, and gliscors always taunts it down. gbwead, AugustRed and pachima 3 Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I think Salamence has some problems in the current metagame. I wonder if A- would be more suitable. Link to comment
xXBlu3BreathXx Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Alright so I've looked through your comments and would like opinions on these potential changes: ⬆️ A+ rank to S Rotom Wash ⬆️ A+ rank to S Scizor ⬇️ A rank to A- Skarmory ⬇️ A rank to B+ Kingdra ⬇️ A- rank to B+ Dugtrio ⬆️ B+ rank to A Milotic ⬆️ B+ rank to A- Reuniclus ⬇️ B rank to B- or C Bronzong Adding a D rank. This is by no means discouraging other suggestions, I just feel these may be a bit more controversial and would like for us to agree on where we should place these first. PoseidonWrath, LKrenz and aZaz07 3 Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) Bassed on Team ROSE discussions: On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬆️ A+ rank to S Rotom Wash Agre Spoiler Rotom can pivot / defog / stall / support / trick counters, etc. I think that is very viable and does not have serious disadvantages On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬆️ A+ rank to S Scizor Disagre Spoiler Scizor is really very good at OU and can become a problem for many teams, however it is possible to find significant disadvantages: - There are several frequent mons who have the sole purpose of stopping Scizor CB and they do it efficiently. Like checks: Chansey (Only 30% chances 2KO vs 2SP After Chansey Heal), Reuniclus bold, Rotom (if bloked on BP), all mons with fire and outspeed Scizor or not 0KO BulletPunch: Tyranitar, Mence, Garchomp, Infernape, Hydreigon, Dragonite, Darmanitan, others UU like Arca9, typlo, suns, etc. Counters: Skarmory, Cofagrigus, Hippowdown, Tentacruel Bold, Milotic bold, Gliscor, Chandelure, Volcarona bulky, Togekis bold, MAGNEZONE Revenge, pelipper bulk, gyarados after intimidate, Swampert bold. We must consider that in SW sets some things change. On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬇️ A rank to A- Skarmory Disagre Spoiler Skarmo jokes chomp On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬇️ A rank to B+ Kingdra Agre Spoiler Rains without traps sucks On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬇️ A- rank to B+ Dugtrio Agre On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬆️ B+ rank to A Milotic Not sure On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬆️ B+ rank to A- Reuniclus Agre On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said: ⬇️ B rank to B- or C Bronzong Agre Edited May 30, 2020 by aZaz07 Link to comment
LifeStyleNORE Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 3 hours ago, RysPicz said: I believe Scizor is S in our metagame. It's typing, movepool and the fact that it's so easily splashable into pretty much every team you want to run (rain archetype, offensive, defensive, balanced), powerful STAB priority, STAB U-turn are just making it super viable in our metagame and it will almost always perform well. Running it pretty much has no drawbacks, same goes for Chomp. There's Magnezone though. It's honestly the only reason keeping me from saying Scizor is S rank, but I feel it's more than enough. Luke, suigin and aZaz07 3 Link to comment
Moi Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 it kinda bugs me how volcarona is lower than skarmory and infernape lol. Volca is a solid A/A+ imo AugustRed 1 Link to comment
aZaz07 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 On 5/15/2020 at 1:40 PM, LifeStyleNORE said: Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. Rotom Wash has reached position 4/5. Here is one less argument when discussing its viability. Link to comment
RysPicz Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 17 hours ago, aZaz07 said: Rotom Wash has reached position 4/5. Here is one less argument when discussing its viability. People started to realise how good rotom-w really is, how great of a pivot and how many different roles it can fit, so I'm totally not surprised. I still believe that it shouldn't be S rank as it has a lot of checks and counters around the tier defensively and due to it's low base HP and lack of reliable recovery, it can get overwhelmed by many offensive powerhouses which hit for at least neutral damage (or cb darmanitan hue hue). aZaz07 1 Link to comment
ThinkNicer Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Why is this thread ded. Conk and Hydra for S rank for reasons I don't have to state. I don't know if Tyranitar deserves an A+ rank right now. The meta seems very unfriendly to it at the moment. Conk, Garchomp and Scizor are everywhere and make life really hard for Ttar. Everyone and their mother running physical defense on most Pokemon because of Chomp doesn't help Ttar either. Sure its a strong Band user and the best pursuit trapper. But I feel like A rank is fine. OrangeManiac and xXBlu3BreathXx 2 Link to comment
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