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OU Viability Rankings

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Posted (edited)

Welcome to the OU Viability Rankings Thread. If you do not know what a viability thread entails read further. A viability thread has as purpose to put Pokémon into 'ranks', by lack of a better term. In the OU viability rankings we base our rankings on how viable certain Pokémon in OU are. Discussion is encouraged and remember that you are always entitled to your opinion but forget not to be respectful to other community members.

 

The rankings will be based on how well a Pokemon performs its role(s) in the metagame; these roles cover how well it performs in the offensive, defensive and supportive characteristics. This means a Pokemon will be in a higher rank depending on how well it performs its role(s) and a Pokemon can fit into the same rank as something that fills a different role. If you have any suggestions for Pokemon not on the viability list feel free to express your opinion but please provide an explanation as to why you believe it fits in the OU metagame. 

 

The older viability rankings were outdated so I decided to make a new one. The initial list bellow was made in collaboration with LifeStyle.

 

 

Resources for Discussion

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



PokeMMO OU Viability Ranking

 

 

S RankReserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the OU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

 

S Rank:

Garchomp Garchomp icon

 

A RankReserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

 

A+ Rank:

Ferrothorn Ferrothorn icon

Hydreigon Hydreigon icon

Rotom WashRotom icon

Scizor Scizor icon

Tyranitar Tyranitar icon

 

A Rank:

Conkeldurr Conkeldurr icon

Excadrill Excadrill icon

Gengar Gengar icon

Infernape Infernape icon

Kingdra Kingdra icon

Pelipper Pelipper icon

Salamence Salamence icon

Skarmory Skarmory icon

TogekissTogekiss icon

 

A- Rank:

Dragonite Dragonite icon
Dugtrio Dugtrio icon
Gliscor Gliscor icon

Volcarona Volcarona icon

B RankReserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

 

B+ Rank:

Blissey Blissey icon

Breloom Breloom icon

Cofagrigus Cofagrigus icon

Darmanitan Darmanitan (Standard Mode) icon

Gyarados Gyarados icon

Hippowdon Hippowdon icon

Kabutops Kabutops icon

Magnezone Magnezone icon

Mienshao Mienshao icon

Milotic Milotic icon

Reuniclus Reuniclus icon
Starmie Starmie icon

 

B Rank:

Bronzong Bronzong icon

Chansey Chansey icon
Cloyster Cloyster icon

Lucario Lucario icon

Mamoswine Mamoswine icon

Mandibuzz Mandibuzz icon

Rotom Mow Rotom icon
Swampert Swampert icon
Tentacruel Tentacruel icon

 

B- Rank: 

Arcanine Arcanine icon

Bisharp Bisharp icon

Chandelure Chandelure icon

Crobat Crobat icon

Electrode Electrode icon

Gastrodon Gastrodon icon

Haxorus Haxorus icon

Jellicent Jellicent icon

Jolteon Jolteon icon

Ludicolo Ludicolo icon

Metagross Metagross icon
Porygon2 Porygon2 icon
Umbreon Umbreon icon
Weavile Weavile icon

 

C RankReserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

 

C Rank: 

Aerodactyl Aerodactyl icon

Archeops Archeops icon

Dusclops Dusclops icon
Forretress Forretress icon
Porygon-Z Porygon-Z icon
Scrafty Scrafty icon

Smeargle Smeargle icon
Snorlax Snorlax icon
Staraptor Staraptor icon

Torkoal Torkoal icon
Toxicroak Toxicroak icon
Whimsicott Whimsicott icon
Zoroark Zoroark icon

 

Spoiler

Special Note that Wobbuffet Wobbuffet icon is currently banned and will be placed on the rankings once it comes off the ban list for a substantial amount of time.

 

Edited by xXBlu3BreathXx

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Posted (edited)

I think Gastrodon should be higher. It completely shuts down Rotom-Wash, which is one of the most prevalent mons in the tier, and can wall and kill other popular mons in the meta like Garchomp, Scizor, and Infernape among many others thanks to its access to recover and ice beam. Also its 4x weakness in grass is under-represented in OU, with Ferrothorn and Breloom, and sometimes Ludicolo and Rotom-Mow, being the only grass mons played.

 

 

Also, what makes Bronzong viable enough in OU to be B-Rank?

Edited by Archon
Bronzong

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252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 120-142 (55 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

> There's also Grass Knot Ape

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 203-239 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

> There's also Yache Berry variants

 

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 200-238 (91.7 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

 

> There's also CB U-Turn

 

It does shut down the most common Rotom-Wash set, but that is usually paired with Ferrothorn. I think Gastrodon's main OU purposes are switching into Water spam from Kingdra/Kabutops, hard walling Life Orb Arcanine,  blocking volt switch from Jolteon/Rotom-Wash and switching into some Gyarados/Darmanitans. All of these aren't really something hard to cover with some proper teambuilding, so Gastrodon is usually not needed to fill these roles. 

 

Bronzong is a pretty cool "anti-sand" mon since it checks Excadrill, Hippo and to a lesser extent Tyranitar and """Garchomp""" while not being freely trapped by Magnezone. As a Stealth Rocker it annoys most defoggers with its typing + bulk + being able to Toxic them. Those traits set him slightly above the stuff in B-, imo. 

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Posted (edited)

i think Rotom Wash can be S rank. (i will write this in spanish and before will posting english traslate. I write this post ultrafastly becouse im working. Please wait traduction or use google, i tried to use standars words for traductors)

 

Rotom tiene, al menos, 3 funciones que puede cumplir con un grado muy ato de eficiencia e incluso algunos elementos interesantes para sorprender. Que tenga acceso a "Despejar" lo convierte en uno de los más atractivos limpia mierdas del meta. Podemos decir además a su favor, que tiene un move pool de movimientos de estado (cómo fuego fatuo, como divide dolor, como trick e incluso chispazo) interesante y ciertamente, hinchapelotas (molesto). Recordemos que el único tipo que le afecta a rotom es el tipo planta y que no tiene tanto nicho en el meta OU. Es necesario hacer notar como punto debil que, si bien su set ofensivo es muy interesante en stab (eléctrico y agua) porque es dificil pararlo de manera integral (sólo ferrothorn y gastrodon, o bien blissey chansey. Veremos que tan importante es esto) pero es tremendamente limitado en otra cobertura que no sea a través de poder oculto siendo esta su principal desventaja junto a la vulnerabilidad a los ataques prioritarios.

Ahora bien, quiero que consideremos que las debilidades de rotom pueden no ser tan graves en varias circusustancias, mientras que sus beneficios son tremendamente condicionantes para los rivales.

Su set estandar es el "bulky attacker" que se puede buildear de diferentes maneras, la mas frecuente se parece a esto:

 

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Defog
- Pain Split

 

Las alternativas están en el reparto de evs - tomo aqui arriba el de smogon de quinta gen- se puede hacer más rápido y/o con más ataque especial y variar los movimientos de estado (por ejemplo con fuego fatuo, con chispazo, con algún poder oculto) como entenderán esto es una TREMENDA versatiidad y muy dificil de predecir.

Otra alternativa muy frecuente es el defoger scarf:

 

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Timid/Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Defog
- Trick

 

Este set es capaz de atrapar a los principales counters (chansey, gastrodon y ferrothorn), anularlos, y escapar con voltio cambio (salvo gastrodon). Tenemos el recurso extra de acceder a despejar después de hacer truco, o en determnadas situaciones un defog emergencia con velocidad aumentada. Ni mencionar, lo tremendamente molesto que puede resultar este set si se acompaña con un turn/switch.

 

Debemos considerar otras dos opciones menos frecuentes pero perfectamente viables:

 

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Fire
- Trick / Discharge

 

252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Ferrothorn: 184-220 (101.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 186-219 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 205-243 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 172-204 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

Tambien podemos mencionar sets defensivos, con natulareza serena (calm +sp.def - atk) y fuego fatuo con una velocidad base más que decente, para transformarlo en un wall equilibrado que se beneficiará de divide dolor.

 

Con todo esto, quiero decir que quizá Rotom no tenga la capacidad de swepear un equipo completo como lo hace Garchomp, pero resulta dificil imaginarse un equipo en el que pueda no encajar.

Las debilidades de Rotom Wash son facilmente contrarestables con otros miembros del equipo y en varias circunstancias por el mismo Rotom según que set.

Estamos ante un claro ejemplo de un centralizador de metajuego y por ende hay que pensar en él como un pokemon de viabilidad S- / S.

Edited by aZaz07

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2020 at 11:09 PM, aZaz07 said:

 

Spoiler

 

i think Rotom Wash can be S rank. (i will write this in spanish and before will posting english traslate. I write this post ultrafastly becouse im working. Please wait traduction or use google, i tried to use standars words for traductors)

 

Rotom has at least 3 functions that can fulfill a very high degree of efficiency and even some interesting elements to surprise. That it has access to "Clear" makes it one of the most attractive metal shit cleaners. We can also say in its favor, that it has a move pool of state movements (like wildfire, as it divides pain, as a trick and even a spark) that is interesting and certainly, ballistic (annoying). Remember that the only type that affects rotom is the plant type and that it does not have as much niche in the meta OU. It is necessary to point out as a weak point that, although his offensive set is very interesting in stab (electric and water) because it is difficult to stop it comprehensively (only ferrothorn and gastrodon, or blissey chansey.

Now, I want us to consider that rotom's weaknesses may not be as severe in various circumstances, while its benefits are tremendously conditioning for rivals.

Its standard set is the "bulky attacker" that can be buildear in different ways, the most frequent looks like this:

 

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Defog
- Pain Split

 

The alternatives are in the cast of evs - I take the fifth gen smogon up here - it can be done faster and / or with more special attack and vary the state movements (for example with wildfire, with a spark, with some power hidden) as you will understand this is an AWESOME versatility and very difficult to predict.

Another very frequent alternative is the defoger scarf:

 

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Timid/Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Defog
- Trick

 

This set is capable of catching the main counters (chansey, gastrodon, and ferrothorn), bypassing them, and escaping with volt change (except gastrodon). We have the extra resource of agreeing to clear after doing a trick, or in certain situations, an emergency defog with increased speed. Not to mention, how tremendously annoying this set can be if accompanied by a turn / switch.

 

We must consider two other less frequent but perfectly viable options:

 

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Modest Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Fire
- Trick / Discharge

 

252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 104 SpD Ferrothorn: 184-220 (101.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 186-219 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 205-243 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 172-204 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

We can also mention defensive sets, with serene natures (calm + sp.def - atk) and wildfire with a more than decent base speed, to transform it into a balanced wall that will benefit from divided pain.

 

With all of this, I mean Rotom may not have the ability to sweep a full team like Garchomp does, but it's hard to imagine a team that might not fit.

Rotom Wash's weaknesses are easily countered by other team members and in various circumstances by Rotom himself depending on which set.

We are facing a clear example of a metagame centralizer and therefore you have to think of it as a S- / S viability pokemon.

 

 

Rotom-Wash is definitely a top tier choice in the OU metagame but it has a few flaws:

  • Gastrodon and Ferrothorn gladly switch into it unless you have hidden power grass/fire specifically to counter them
  • 4 move slot syndrome, it cannot run every move it desires often times only running one electric move (giving up momentum or power) and hydro pump. This only leaves two slots with a plethora of good options but could be detrimental if you don't have the right one. 
  • Volt switch can be blocked by ground types, while risky to switch them in it could shut down all of your momentum if choice locked. 
  • No reliable recovery, Rotom must make use of 50% recovery berries or pain split. This makes it pretty good at checking threats but it will eventually get whittled down.
  • Low base HP makes tanking a bit difficult.
Edited by xXBlu3BreathXx

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Posted (edited)

Ty for the traslation

Yes, I agree with you in those points. I also have to say that the relative of those weaknesses are what makes me think that rotom is above the rest of A +.

1. Agree... Hp/trick relieve complications without disappearing.

2. Agree. Advantage and disadvantage. 

3. But block Rotom with grounds types its risky too. Rotom can gives 2KO at all ground/VoltAbsorb of the meta with hydro pump. 

4, 5. Yei. Only can use PS in the bulks sets. 

 

Maybe use - S viability reflect thats points. 

U think (for example) what Tyranitar its viability as Rotom? Try to use Tyranitar not choice sets now... This I try to say. The variety of sets that Rotom can carry with a level of success above the rest should give it a different status. 

Edited by aZaz07

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1 hour ago, aZaz07 said:

Maybe use - S viability reflect thats points. 

U think (for example) what Tyranitar its viability as Rotom? Try to use Tyranitar not choice sets now... This I try to say. The variety of sets that Rotom can carry with a level of success above the rest should give it a different status. 

S- doesn't really make sense to have as a rank, since that implies would should also have a S+ rank. There's only one mon that deserves S in the current metagame and that mon is Garchomp, there's nothing else on par with it when it comes to risk vs reward. 

 

Out of all the mons in A+ you chose to compare Rotom with Tyranitar, which I find weird since Tyranitar is by far the most versatile out of the bunch. 

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58 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

S- doesn't really make sense to have as a rank, since that implies would should also have a S+ rank.

 

I can understand this, in a sense it is just as you say. Although I still think it is debatable for the reasons of before.

 

1 hour ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Out of all the mons in A+ you chose to compare Rotom with Tyranitar, which I find weird since Tyranitar is by far the most versatile out of the bunch. 

I'm not sure I can understand what you want to get at with this. It's funny that you talk about garchomp first and then talk about the versatility of a pokemon that has a poor performance against it (removing some mixed set with Ice Beam against garchomps without berry). You can have all the move pool in the world, if you are killed by garchomp, scizor and conkeldur you are no better than Rotom.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, aZaz07 said:

I'm not sure I can understand what you want to get at with this. It's funny that you talk about garchomp first and then talk about the versatility of a pokemon that has a poor performance against it (removing some mixed set with Ice Beam against garchomps without berry). You can have all the move pool in the world, if you are killed by garchomp, scizor and conkeldur you are no better than Rotom.

 

- Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam doesn't let Garchomp get up a free SD (unless Yache, which I don't believe is the most common item) 

- Fire Blast Tyranitar can speed creep CB Scizor and OHKO it (and can use Babiri Berry) 

- Can't really do nothing to Conk besides CB Superpower doing a good chunk (or Stone Edge if it crits) 

 

The point is Tyranitar can be a lot of things, and you can never really guess what it's going to pull out of a hat. Rotom-Wash is a really good support mon, but it's not that versatile. It usually carries Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, and looking at your opponent's team, you can usually take a guess on if it's the Defogger or not. But what if it's Trick+Defog? Then it won't have recovery. But what if it's Trick+Defog+Pain Split? Then it only has 1 damage move. I could go on and on but it's pretty obvious Rotom is not as versatile as something that can be Banded, Scarf, set up Rocks, or run a bunch of random moves + items to lure in common checks. While also setting up sand... 

 

Moving on, versatility =/= being good or not. Nobody said that Tyranitar is "better" than Rotom, it's just more versatile aka has more moveset options / team roles. This is also the Viability Thread, not the "this guy kills these other guys so he should be higher" Thread. Hitmontop beats Tyranitar and yet you don't see it listed. Why? Because it's not viable in the metagame as a whole. So yeah, Rotom-W shouldn't be higher just because it beats Scizor or Tyranitar, they're equally viable in general terms. 

 

Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. 

Edited by LifeStyleNORE

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam doesn't let Garchomp get up a free SD (unless Yache, which I don't believe is the most common item) 

- Fire Blast Tyranitar can speed creep CB Scizor and OHKO it (and can use Babiri Berry) 

- Can't really do nothing to Conk besides CB Superpower doing a good chunk (or Stone Edge if it crits) 

Lo encuentro rebuscado, quizá mi inglés no me pemirte aclarar algunas cosas - ciertamente también pienso que no hace falta aclarar que Tyranitar es vulnerable a 3 cosas muy usadas y peligrosas del OU y que eso lo deja en una posición de viabilidad que es diferente, por ejemplo, a la de Rotom- en cualquier caso estos 3 puntos lo considerable es que sin hacer bullet punch Tyranitar puede darle fire blast a Scizor. Tyranitar es debil contra Conkeldur y solo puede aspirar al "good chunk". Sobre Garchomp y Tyranitar ya había dicho que el ice beam puede dañar si es un set sin Yache (que la veo bastante más común que Berry en Tyranitar).

 

 

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

The point is Tyranitar can be a lot of things, and you can never really guess what it's going to pull out of a hat. Rotom-Wash is a really good support mon, but it's not that versatile. It usually carries Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, and looking at your opponent's team, you can usually take a guess on if it's the Defogger or not. But what if it's Trick+Defog? Then it won't have recovery. But what if it's Trick+Defog+Pain Split? Then it only has 1 damage move.

Este es el aporte interesante de la discusión.

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

This is also the Viability Thread, not the "this guy kills these other guys so he should be higher" Thread

Pensé que justamente por ello escribí tres posteos analizando a Rotom. Quizá exageres al decirlo, voy a interpretar esto como "el calor de las discusiones" no veo que sea una contribución valiosa. 

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. 

Esto es interesante, Rotom está en el puesto 11 de los más usados de OU. Tengo la impresión de que Rotom es mucho más frecuente en los duelos de mayor leader. No puedo comprobarlo. En cierto sentido, también pienso que esto va a comenzar a cambiar en los proximos meses y que sucederá similar al Garchomp. Recordemos que este es su cuarto mes y en todos viene subiendo varios puestos, si alguien tiene una SS para verificarlo lo agradezco, solo lo digo de memoria puedo equivocarme.

También hay que considerar que estamos viendo unas estadisticas muy cambiantes, aun cuando wobbu estaba en el juego. Es probable que Rotom suba varios puestos a medida que pase el tiempo.

Aunque si de esto se trata, podemos volver a dar la discusión el proximo mes con los nuevos usage si los argumentos no te parecen suficientes.

Saludos.

 

Traslate

Spoiler
2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Shuca Berry Tyranitar with Ice Beam doesn't let Garchomp get up a free SD (unless Yache, which I don't believe is the most common item) 

- Fire Blast Tyranitar can speed creep CB Scizor and OHKO it (and can use Babiri Berry) 

- Can't really do nothing to Conk besides CB Superpower doing a good chunk (or Stone Edge if it crits) 

I find it far-fetched, perhaps my English does not allow me to clarify some things - I also think that it is not necessary to clarify that Tyranitar is vulnerability to 3 very used and dangerous mons of the OU and that leaves it in a position of viability that is different, for example To Rotom's - in any case, these 3 points, the considerable thing is that without making a bullet punch, Tyranitar can give Scizor fire blast. Tyranitar is weak against Conkeldur and can only aspire to "good chunk". About Garchomp and Tyranitar I had already said that the ice beam can damage if it is a set without Yache (which I see much more common than Berry in Tyranitar).

 

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

The point is Tyranitar can be a lot of things, and you can never really guess what it's going to pull out of a hat. Rotom-Wash is a really good support mon, but it's not that versatile. It usually carries Hydro Pump, Volt Switch, and looking at your opponent's team, you can usually take a guess on if it's the Defogger or not. But what if it's Trick+Defog? Then it won't have recovery. But what if it's Trick+Defog+Pain Split? Then it only has 1 damage move.

This is the interesting contribution of the discussion.

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

This is also the Viability Thread, not the "this guy kills these other guys so he should be higher" Thread

I thought that was precisely why I wrote three posts analyzing Rotom. Maybe you exaggerate when saying it, I am going to interpret this like "the heat of the discussions" I do not see that it contributes to say it.

 

2 hours ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. 

This is interesting, Rotom is ranked 11th among the most used in OU. I have the impression that Rotom is much more frequent in higher leader duels. I can't verify it. In a sense, I also think that this is going to start to change in the coming months and that it will happen similar to the Garchomp. Remember that this is your fourth month and in the updates you go up several steps, if someone has an SS to verify it, I appreciate it, I only say it from memory I can be wrong.We must also consider that we are seeing very changing statistics, and part of them even when wobbu was in the game. Rotom is likely to climb several places as time goes by.Although if this is about, we can return to give the discussion next month with the new usage if the arguments do not seem enough.

 

Thanks for the answers.

 

Edited by aZaz07

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On 5/11/2020 at 5:42 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

S Rank:

Garchomp Garchomp icon

Cmon, this needs to be S ++.

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IMO:
Infernape           A   -->  A-/B+

Kingdra              A -->  B

Pelipper             A -->  B+

Haxorus            C -->  D

Dusclops          C -->  D

Electrode          B- -->  C
Lucario              B -->  B-

Bronzong          B --> C  
Electrode          B- --> C 

Dugtrio             A- --> B  
Bisharp            B- --> C  
Tentacruel       B --> B+  
Chandelure     B- --> B+  

Milotic             B+ --> A 

Darmanitan    B+  --> B-  

Jolteon             B- --> B 

Excadrill           A  -->  A-

Blissey              B-  -->  A-

Kabutops          B+ -->  B

Reuniclus          B+ --> A- 

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@MadaraSixSix's viability rankings:

 

S

  • garchomp
  • rotom

A+

  • scizor
  • conk

A

  • ttar
  • salamence
  • dnite
  • hydreigon
  • ferro
  • gengar
  • togekiss
  • pelipper
  • cofagrigus
  • milotic
  • umbreon

A-

  • reuniclus
  • skarmory
  • excadrill
  • cloyster
  • mandibuzz
  • chandelure

B+

  • kingdra
  • volcarona
  • tentacruel
  • breloom
  • dugtrio
  • mienshao
  • gastrodon

B

  • starmie
  • lucario
  • blissey
  • porygon2

B-

  • infernape
  • kabutops
  • gliscor
  • darmanitan
  • gyarados
  • hippowdon
  • magnezone
  • ludicolo

C

  • chansey
  • swampert
  • jolteon

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I believe Scizor is S in our metagame. It's typing, movepool and the fact that it's so easily splashable into pretty much every team you want to run (rain archetype, offensive, defensive, balanced), powerful STAB priority, STAB U-turn are just making it super viable in our metagame and it will almost always perform well. Running it pretty much has no drawbacks, same goes for Chomp.

 

I do not believe TTar is A+, though. With abundance of Conks and Scizors I could see it as "A" as best, even though it pains me to say that cuz I love that mon

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Think Skarmory should be lower, b+ or A-. It really struggles to set up rocks/spikes without sacrificing all of its health. Dragons all seem to have a fire move for it, rotoms defogs it, rain teams get their free set ups, and gliscors always taunts it down. 

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I think Salamence has some problems in the current metagame. I wonder if A- would be more suitable.

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Alright so I've looked through your comments and would like opinions on these potential changes:

⬆️ A+ rank to S Rotom WashRotom icon

⬆️ A+ rank to S Scizor Scizor icon

⬇️ A rank to A- Skarmory Skarmory icon

⬇️ A rank to B+ Kingdra Kingdra icon

⬇️ A- rank to B+ Dugtrio Dugtrio icon

⬆️ B+ rank to A Milotic Milotic icon

⬆️ B+ rank to A- Reuniclus Reuniclus icon

⬇️ B rank to B- or C Bronzong Bronzong icon

Adding a D rank.

 

This is by no means discouraging other suggestions, I just feel these may be a bit more controversial and would like for us to agree on where we should place these first.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Bassed on Team ROSE discussions:

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬆️ A+ rank to S Rotom WashRotom icon

 

Agre

 

Spoiler

Rotom can pivot / defog / stall / support / trick counters, etc. I think that is very viable and does not have serious disadvantages

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬆️ A+ rank to S Scizor Scizor icon

Disagre
 

Spoiler

 

Scizor is really very good at OU and can become a problem for many teams, however it is possible to find significant disadvantages:

 

- There are several frequent mons who have the sole purpose of stopping Scizor CB and they do it efficiently. Like checks: Chansey (Only 30% chances 2KO vs 2SP After Chansey Heal), Reuniclus bold, Rotom (if bloked on BP), all mons with fire and outspeed Scizor or not 0KO BulletPunch: Tyranitar, Mence, Garchomp, Infernape, Hydreigon, Dragonite, Darmanitan, others UU like Arca9, typlo, suns, etc.

Counters: Skarmory, Cofagrigus, Hippowdown, Tentacruel Bold, Milotic bold, Gliscor, Chandelure, Volcarona bulky, Togekis bold, MAGNEZONE Revenge, pelipper bulk, gyarados after intimidate, Swampert bold.

 

We must consider that in SW sets some things change.

 

 

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬇️ A rank to A- Skarmory Skarmory icon

Disagre

 

Spoiler

Skarmo jokes chomp

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬇️ A rank to B+ Kingdra Kingdra icon

Agre

 

Spoiler

Rains without traps sucks

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬇️ A- rank to B+ Dugtrio Dugtrio icon

Agre

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬆️ B+ rank to A Milotic Milotic icon

Not sure

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬆️ B+ rank to A- Reuniclus Reuniclus icon

Agre

 

On 5/22/2020 at 7:11 PM, xXBlu3BreathXx said:

⬇️ B rank to B- or C Bronzong Bronzong icon

Agre

Edited by aZaz07

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3 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I believe Scizor is S in our metagame. It's typing, movepool and the fact that it's so easily splashable into pretty much every team you want to run (rain archetype, offensive, defensive, balanced), powerful STAB priority, STAB U-turn are just making it super viable in our metagame and it will almost always perform well. Running it pretty much has no drawbacks, same goes for Chomp.

There's Magnezone though. It's honestly the only reason keeping me from saying Scizor is S rank, but I feel it's more than enough.

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it kinda bugs me how volcarona is lower than skarmory and infernape lol. Volca is a solid A/A+ imo

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On 5/15/2020 at 1:40 PM, LifeStyleNORE said:

Edit: Not to mention it would be kinda strange to have a mon with 15.56% usage (not even breaking into Top10) in S rank. 

 

Rotom Wash has reached position 4/5. Here is one less argument when discussing its viability.

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17 hours ago, aZaz07 said:

 

Rotom Wash has reached position 4/5. Here is one less argument when discussing its viability.

People started to realise how good rotom-w really is, how great of a pivot and how many different roles it can fit, so I'm totally not surprised. I still believe that it shouldn't be S rank as it has a lot of checks and counters around the tier defensively and due to it's low base HP and lack of reliable recovery, it can get overwhelmed by many offensive powerhouses which hit for at least neutral damage (or cb darmanitan hue hue). 

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