May-Movement Discussion Thread

[TohnR]

11 hours ago, Rache said:

Moving things from NU to untiered when they drop below a certain usage % is just removing clutter from the tier, making it easier to tell what's considered viable.

So if I understand, anything under 4% usage is out. All right ... 

 

On 4/25/2020 at 7:41 PM, Munya said:

Froslass 51 4.00% Archeops 48 3.77% Dusknoir 48 3.77% Cryogonal 48 3.77% Magneton 46 3.61% Miltank 45 3.53% Klinklang 43 3.38% Altaria 41 3.22% Nidoking 36 2.83% Claydol 36 2.83% Abomasnow 36 2.83% Rampardos 35 2.75% Skuntank 34 2.67% Throh 33 2.59% Serperior 31 2.43% Sharpedo 31 2.43% Feraligatr 30 2.35% Munchlax 30 2.35% Aggron 29 2.28% Samurott 28 2.20% Probopass 28 2.20% Lapras 28 2.20% Stunfisk 28 2.20% Ursaring 25 1.96% Hariyama 25 1.96% Pikachu 24 1.88% Accelgor 24 1.88% Poliwrath 24 1.88% Sawk 24 1.88% Lickilicky 24 1.88% Tauros 24 1.88% Smeargle 22 1.73% Rotom (Fan) 22 1.73%

All of these above the cutoff % could be listed into NU tho (and none of them are). I wouldn't call any of them gimmicky or unviable (except that Levitate flying type thing smh)

Edited April 28, 2020 by TohnR

[Rache]

10 minutes ago, TohnR said:

So if I understand, anything under 4% usage is out. All right ... 

 

All of these above the cutoff % could be listed into NU tho (and none of them are). I wouldn't call any of them gimmicky or unviable (except that Levitate flying type thing smh)

Usage doesn't care about what's decent if people aren't actually using it. Just as an OU Pokemon falling below the cutoff ends up in the UU tier (unless banned from it), these Pokemon fell below NU into Untiered. There's nothing stopping you from using them, but there's little justification to display them in NU if nobody else is.

[RysPicz]

This is all cool but when are we finally getting any kind of a decision about wobbufett? Who can give us actual info as of why that kind of rule (the no ubers policy) has been introduced, why it has been done as an unwritten rule and what can we do to bring things back the way they were? I know staff doesn't play competitive and only few got a rough idea about how things work in there, but OU is filthy and disgusting.

 

@Rache can you point us to someone who can actually speak with us and answer at least few of these?

[Rache]

3 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

This is all cool but when are we finally getting any kind of a decision about wobbufett? Who can give us actual info as of why that kind of rule (the no ubers policy) has been introduced, why it has been done as an unwritten rule and what can we do to bring things back the way they were? I know staff doesn't play competitive and only few got a rough idea about how things work in there, but OU is filthy and disgusting.

 

@Rache can you point us to someone who can actually speak with us and answer at least few of these?

We're looking into ways to make it more reasonable. It hasn't been overlooked, please be patient.

[RysPicz]

25 minutes ago, Rache said:

We're looking into ways to make it more reasonable. It hasn't been overlooked, please be patient.

How about, well, ban it? Like we were doing for the past ~~7 years?

[TohnR]

33 minutes ago, Rache said:

Usage doesn't care about what's decent if people aren't actually using it. Just as an OU Pokemon falling below the cutoff ends up in the UU tier (unless banned from it), these Pokemon fell below NU into Untiered. There's nothing stopping you from using them, but there's little justification to display them in NU if nobody else is.

Thanks for trying to answer but you're missing the point. I'm not discussing how tiering system works or should work.

Sorry I must have been unclear. What I was pointing out is that all these Pokemon I mentioned are actually used.

To rephrase my question was : Why was a 4% cutoff chosen for NU/UT when it isn't either 6.7 or 1.7 (this month cutoffs) ?

 

Even things that were NU and are still above the dropping cutoff like Serperior (2.43%) are in the list I mentioned ... and dropped to UT this month

I know it honestly doesn't change anything tho, it's just that I don't really see why would we randomly decide on a different cutoff and make the NU/UT separation irrelevant...

With the little NU usage we get, tiering already seems irrelevant enough for us to go ahead and do that. 

I think that if the goal is, as you said, to help players see what is viable for the tier, then those above 1.7% I mentioned do qualify to be part of NU since they are used enough

Edited April 28, 2020 by TohnR

[Munya]

12 minutes ago, TohnR said:

Thanks for trying to answer but you're missing the point. I'm not discussing how tiering system works or should work.

Sorry I must have been unclear. What I was pointing out is that all these Pokemon I mentioned are actually used.

To rephrase my question was : Why was a 4% cutoff chosen for NU/UT when it isn't either 6.7 or 1.7 (this month cutoffs) ?

 

Even things that were NU and are still above the dropping cutoff like Serperior (2.43%) are in the list I mentioned ... and dropped to UT this month

I know it honestly doesn't change anything tho, it's just that I don't really see why would we randomly decide on a different cutoff and make the NU/UT separation irrelevant...

With the little NU usage we get, tiering already seems irrelevant enough for us to go ahead and do that. 

I think that if the goal is, as you said, to help players see what is viable for the tier, then those above 1.7% I mentioned do qualify to be part of NU since they are used enough

Untiered is not an actual tier, NU has always used the 4.36% cutoff point and will continue to do so as there is no reason to use the weighted system for it, also 1.7 has never been used to move up, thats to move down, so half the stuff you mentioned, wouldn't have made it in anyway.

[TohnR]

9 hours ago, Munya said:

half the stuff you mentioned, wouldn't have made it in anyway.

Indeed. I had no idea 4.36% was a fixed percentage for NU/UT separation and that is mostly what I was looking for. Thanks

[RysPicz]

HOLY SHIT WE DID IT GUYS THE CANCER IS GONE

 

[gbwead]

2 hours ago, RysPicz said:

HOLY SHIT WE DID IT GUYS THE CANCER IS GONE

 

no u

Edited April 29, 2020 by gbwead

[RysPicz]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

no u

I promise I'll ev and level my Chomps soon and start playing OU, then I'll either argue about how wrong you are or admit that you're right

[Munya]

2 hours ago, RysPicz said:

or admit that you're right

This is why you can't join TC

[RysPicz]

5 hours ago, Munya said:

This is why you can't join TC

Touché.

Edited April 30, 2020 by RysPicz
I embarris.

[pachima]

9 hours ago, RysPicz said:

I promise I'll ... start playing

 

7 hours ago, Munya said:

This is why you can't join TC

Fix the exact quote for you.

[iJulian]

On 4/28/2020 at 8:17 AM, Rache said:

We're looking into ways to make it more reasonable. It hasn't been overlooked, please be patient.

No, please DONT.

 

Perish trap has historically been a very used strategy in vgc/doubles. Stop taking variety of strategies from doubles/lc to try and make something maybe usable in OU. STOP CHANGING THE ORIGINAL POKEMON MECHANICS.

 

You did the exact same thing with baton pass and now guess what happened?! just what I told you NO ONE USES IT IN OU/UU/NU AND IT NO LONGER HAS A NICHE IN LC/DUBS

 

[RysPicz]

2 hours ago, iJulian said:

You did the exact same thing with baton pass and now guess what happened?! just what I told you NO ONE USES IT IN OU/UU/NU AND IT NO LONGER HAS A NICHE IN LC/DUBS

Well, Baton Pass is being used quite often and it's gonna be used even more once people will realise how cancerous is drypass and subpass Julian, I can give you a lot of replays from recent tours where Gliscors and Jolteons are passing subs and creating huge mess.

 

I do agree with the first part of the post though, Wobbu (Shadow Tag) should simply remain banned.

[Zigh]

2 hours ago, iJulian said:

No, please DONT.

 

Perish trap has historically been a very used strategy in vgc/doubles. Stop taking variety of strategies from doubles/lc to try and make something maybe usable in OU. STOP CHANGING THE ORIGINAL POKEMON MECHANICS.

 

You did the exact same thing with baton pass and now guess what happened?! just what I told you NO ONE USES IT IN OU/UU/NU AND IT NO LONGER HAS A NICHE IN LC/DUBS

 

I agree 200% with Julian.

Fixing something at the expense of messing with another format is not the way to go.