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Munya

April-Movement Discussion Thread

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4.36% movement cutoff is still currently in effect.  The following pokemon are below/above the cutoff in the respective tiers listed, this does not mean they are moving as BL/BL2 are still in effect for some of these unless voted otherwise.

 

Below the cutoff to stay in OU:

Kabutops, Metagross, Lucario, Porygon-z, Haxorus

 

Moving up to OU:

Dugtrio & Ludicolo

 

Below the cutoff to stay in UU:

Blastoise, Vaporeon, Torterra, Luxray, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Wormadam(all forms), Mothim, Lopunny, Honchkrow, Purugly, Skuntank, Chatot, Spiritomb, Drapion, Toxicroak, Abomasnow, Rotom(Fan), Rotom(Frost), Rotom

 

Nothing moved up to UU this month.

 

OU:

Spoiler

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams
  628080 104680
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage
Scizor 33443 31.95%
Garchomp 29793 28.46%
Conkeldurr 27993 26.74%
Gengar 22932 21.91%
Ferrothorn 20844 19.91%
Skarmory 18827 17.99%
Kingdra 17101 16.34%
Pelipper 16957 16.20%
Hydreigon 16938 16.18%
Milotic 16572 15.83%
Volcarona 15563 14.87%
Magnezone 15230 14.55%
Tyranitar 14677 14.02%
Blissey 13691 13.08%
Rotom(Wash) 13202 12.61%
Jolteon 13185 12.60%
Dragonite 13052 12.47%
Togekiss 12952 12.37%
Excadrill 11657 11.14%
Cofagrigus 11288 10.78%
Gyarados 10571 10.10%
Reuniclus 10219 9.76%
Chansey 9696 9.26%
Salamence 9401 8.98%
Mienshao 9301 8.89%
Cloyster 9003 8.60%
Chandelure 8183 7.82%
Breloom 7804 7.46%
Hippowdon 7697 7.35%
Tentacruel 7494 7.16%
Gliscor 7260 6.94%
Wobbuffet 7054 6.74%
Darmanitan 6929 6.62%
Infernape 6457 6.17%
Dugtrio 6252 5.97%
Ludicolo 6210 5.93%
Swampert 5626 5.37%
Starmie 5278 5.04%
Kabutops 4544 4.34%
Gastrodon 4489 4.29%
Torkoal 4458 4.26%
Lucario 4369 4.17%
Metagross 3952 3.78%
Mandibuzz 3302 3.15%
Umbreon 3199 3.06%
Bronzong 3190 3.05%
Arcanine 3084 2.95%
Haxorus 3051 2.91%
Porygon2 2411 2.30%
Whimsicott 2307 2.20%
Zoroark 2214 2.12%
Crobat 2181 2.08%
Snorlax 2098 2.00%
Aerodactyl 1905 1.82%
Alakazam 1866 1.78%
Weavile 1836 1.75%
Dusclops 1772 1.69%
Jellicent 1742 1.66%
Electrode 1710 1.63%
Scrafty 1668 1.59%
Staraptor 1621 1.55%
Azumarill 1581 1.51%
Ambipom 1445 1.38%
Bisharp 1443 1.38%
Heracross 1424 1.36%
Charizard 1421 1.36%
Marowak 1420 1.36%
Pikachu 1402 1.34%
Mamoswine 1396 1.33%
Mantine 1383 1.32%
Sigilyph 1382 1.32%
Gardevoir 1348 1.29%
Yanmega 1330 1.27%
Krookodile 1319 1.26%
Vaporeon 1280 1.22%
Rotom(Heat) 1175 1.12%
Swellow 1134 1.08%
Gigalith 1111 1.06%
Sceptile 1108 1.06%

UU:

Spoiler

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams
  8268 1378
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage
Crobat 435 31.57%
Mandibuzz 342 24.82%
Snorlax 288 20.90%
Forretress 274 19.88%
Arcanine 269 19.52%
Rotom(Heat) 266 19.30%
Eelektross 264 19.16%
Bronzong 248 18.00%
Mamoswine 238 17.27%
Lanturn 231 16.76%
Heracross 218 15.82%
Jellicent 181 13.13%
Scrafty 181 13.13%
Porygon2 167 12.12%
Venomoth 161 11.68%
Staraptor 150 10.89%
Gastrodon 137 9.94%
Donphan 136 9.87%
Yanmega 135 9.80%
Krookodile 116 8.42%
Rotom(Mow) 116 8.42%
Torkoal 115 8.35%
Electrode 114 8.27%
Flygon 110 7.98%
Weavile 108 7.84%
Azumarill 108 7.84%
Dusclops 103 7.47%
Sigilyph 102 7.40%
Medicham 101 7.33%
Typhlosion 98 7.11%
Slowbro 97 7.04%
Umbreon 91 6.60%
Druddigon 91 6.60%
Empoleon 87 6.31%
Linoone 86 6.24%
Alakazam 82 5.95%
Bisharp 82 5.95%
Rhyperior 82 5.95%
Durant 76 5.52%
Dugtrio 71 5.15%
Machamp 70 5.08%
Absol 65 4.72%
Vaporeon 60 4.35%
Mantine 58 4.21%
Spiritomb 58 4.21%
Toxicroak 58 4.21%
Zoroark 48 3.48%
Blastoise 47 3.41%
Aerodactyl 46 3.34%
Exeggutor 43 3.12%
Roserade 41 2.98%
Mismagius 41 2.98%
Gigalith 39 2.83%
Venusaur 36 2.61%
Abomasnow 36 2.61%
Drapion 35 2.54%
Magneton 35 2.54%
Rampardos 34 2.47%
Swellow 32 2.32%
Whimsicott 30 2.18%
Galvantula 30 2.18%
Ambipom 29 2.10%
Victreebel 26 1.89%
Froslass 26 1.89%
Smeargle 26 1.89%
Manectric 24 1.74%
Nidoqueen 24 1.74%
Electivire 23 1.67%
Honchkrow 23 1.67%
Charizard 20 1.45%
Gallade 20 1.45%
Steelix 20 1.45%
Espeon 18 1.31%
Weezing 17 1.23%
Archeops 16 1.16%
Accelgor 16 1.16%
Ludicolo 15 1.09%
Gardevoir 15 1.09%
Gligar 15 1.09%
Houndoom 15 1.09%
Quagsire 15 1.09%
Luxray 15 1.09%
Dusknoir 14 1.02%
Scyther 14 1.02%
Omastar 14 1.02%
Bibarel 14 1.02%

NU:

Spoiler

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams
  6096 1016
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage
Steelix 246 24.21%
Roserade 220 21.65%
Golbat 193 19.00%
Gallade 184 18.11%
Gigalith 172 16.93%
Zoroark 161 15.85%
Hitmonchan 158 15.55%
Mantine 148 14.57%
Mismagius 138 13.58%
Primeape 138 13.58%
Gligar 132 12.99%
Galvantula 126 12.40%
Houndoom 126 12.40%
Stoutland 125 12.30%
Sableye 123 12.11%
Espeon 120 11.81%
Manectric 108 10.63%
Charizard 104 10.24%
Swellow 101 9.94%
Hitmontop 96 9.45%
Nidoqueen 95 9.35%
Clefable 93 9.15%
Ambipom 92 9.06%
Omastar 85 8.37%
Braviary 82 8.07%
Golurk 81 7.97%
Musharna 81 7.97%
Bronzor 79 7.78%
Rhydon 77 7.58%
Venusaur 74 7.28%
Vanilluxe 71 6.99%
Aerodactyl 64 6.30%
Weezing 64 6.30%
Electivire 62 6.10%
Sceptile 62 6.10%
Feraligatr 62 6.10%
Bibarel 59 5.81%
Cryogonal 57 5.61%
Dusknoir 56 5.51%
Scyther 56 5.51%
Golem 56 5.51%
Altaria 56 5.51%
Froslass 54 5.31%
Kangaskhan 52 5.12%
Slowking 52 5.12%
Whimsicott 50 4.92%
Magneton 48 4.72%
Serperior 45 4.43%
Lilligant 45 4.43%
Gardevoir 44 4.33%
Poliwrath 44 4.33%
Escavalier 43 4.23%
Magmortar 42 4.13%
Klinklang 41 4.04%
Ludicolo 39 3.84%
Lapras 33 3.25%
Miltank 32 3.15%
Nidoking 32 3.15%
Probopass 31 3.05%
Accelgor 30 2.95%
Claydol 30 2.95%
Smeargle 29 2.85%
Archeops 29 2.85%
Pikachu 26 2.56%
Munchlax 26 2.56%
Aggron 24 2.36%
Sneasel 24 2.36%
Samurott 23 2.26%
Ursaring 21 2.07%
Quagsire 20 1.97%
Throh 19 1.87%
Sharpedo 18 1.77%
Lickilicky 17 1.67%
Raichu 17 1.67%
Carracosta 16 1.57%
Sawk 15 1.48%
Ampharos 15 1.48%
Sawsbuck 15 1.48%
Metang 15 1.48%
Tauros 14 1.38%
Hariyama 13 1.28%
Flareon 13 1.28%
Blaziken 12 1.18%
Crawdaunt 12 1.18%
Leafeon 11 1.08%
Emboar 11 1.08%
Haunter 11 1.08%
Piloswine 11 1.08%

Doubles:

Spoiler

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams
  4068 678
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage
Togekiss 229 33.78%
Hitmontop 164 24.19%
Tyranitar 132 19.47%
Reuniclus 114 16.81%
Metagross 111 16.37%
Kingdra 109 16.08%
Conkeldurr 105 15.49%
Garchomp 104 15.34%
Gengar 102 15.04%
Excadrill 97 14.31%
Salamence 91 13.42%
Arcanine 90 13.27%
Hydreigon 90 13.27%
Gastrodon 84 12.39%
Scizor 84 12.39%
Gyarados 81 11.95%
Milotic 81 11.95%
Pelipper 79 11.65%
Chandelure 74 10.91%
Ferrothorn 73 10.77%
Porygon2 73 10.77%
Volcarona 72 10.62%
Torkoal 63 9.29%
Rotom(Wash) 62 9.14%
Cofagrigus 59 8.70%
Snorlax 55 8.11%
Amoonguss 52 7.67%
Jolteon 46 6.78%
Blastoise 42 6.19%
Hariyama 42 6.19%
Whimsicott 41 6.05%
Dragonite 40 5.90%
Bronzong 37 5.46%
Blissey 35 5.16%
Ludicolo 33 4.87%
Magnezone 33 4.87%
Mienshao 33 4.87%
Abomasnow 31 4.57%
Swampert 31 4.57%
Rotom(Heat) 31 4.57%
Gliscor 30 4.42%
Breloom 28 4.13%
Chansey 28 4.13%
Lilligant 28 4.13%
Bisharp 26 3.83%
Eelektross 26 3.83%
Typhlosion 23 3.39%
Aerodactyl 22 3.24%
Haxorus 19 2.80%
Gigalith 18 2.65%
Hippowdon 18 2.65%
Kabutops 18 2.65%
Electabuzz 17 2.51%
Jellicent 17 2.51%
Lanturn 17 2.51%
Manectric 17 2.51%
Slowking 17 2.51%
Cloyster 16 2.36%
Skarmory 16 2.36%
Toxicroak 16 2.36%
Charizard 15 2.21%
Serperior 15 2.21%
Crobat 14 2.06%
Darmanitan 14 2.06%
Electivire 14 2.06%
Golduck 13 1.92%
Mandibuzz 13 1.92%
Rhyperior 13 1.92%
Dusclops 12 1.77%
Gallade 12 1.77%
Kangaskhan 12 1.77%
Lapras 12 1.77%
Mamoswine 12 1.77%
Empoleon 11 1.62%
Infernape 11 1.62%
Krookodile 11 1.62%
Zoroark 11 1.62%
Alakazam 10 1.47%
Marowak 10 1.47%
Tentacruel 10 1.47%
Roserade 9 1.33%
Staraptor 9 1.33%
Vanilluxe 9 1.33%
Wobbuffet 9 1.33%
Dusknoir 8 1.18%
Electrode 8 1.18%
Sableye 8 1.18%
Sceptile 8 1.18%
Sigilyph 8 1.18%
Smeargle 8 1.18%
Starmie 8 1.18%
Vaporeon 8 1.18%
Rotom(Mow) 8 1.18%
Audino 7 1.03%
Flygon 7 1.03%
Umbreon 7 1.03%
Ursaring 7 1.03%
Weavile 7 1.03%

LC:

Spoiler

All Teams Total Pokemon Total Teams
  3636 606
Pokemon Raw Usage Percentage
Mienfoo 441 72.77%
Vullaby 351 57.92%
Ferroseed 287 47.36%
Gastly 219 36.14%
Porygon 201 33.17%
Diglett 171 28.22%
Clamperl 164 27.06%
Frillish 133 21.95%
Timburr 122 20.13%
Magnemite 112 18.48%
Dwebble 111 18.32%
Trapinch 102 16.83%
Onix 92 15.18%
Bronzor 77 12.71%
Grimer 65 10.73%
Staryu 65 10.73%
Tentacool 61 10.07%
Munchlax 55 9.08%
Chinchou 44 7.26%
Elekid 42 6.93%
Hippopotas 38 6.27%
Abra 36 5.94%
Pawniard 34 5.61%
Drifloon 28 4.62%
Drilbur 27 4.46%
Shellder 25 4.13%
Larvesta 21 3.47%
Omanyte 21 3.47%
Ponyta 21 3.47%
Shellos 21 3.47%
Tirtouga 21 3.47%
Croagunk 20 3.30%
Taillow 20 3.30%
Yamask 19 3.14%
Voltorb 19 3.14%
Cranidos 16 2.64%
Cottonee 15 2.48%
Wynaut 13 2.15%
Koffing 13 2.15%
Dratini 13 2.15%
Axew 12 1.98%
Rufflet 12 1.98%
Stunky 12 1.98%
Sandile 11 1.82%
Magby 10 1.65%
Aipom 9 1.49%
Archen 9 1.49%
Cubone 9 1.49%
Slowpoke 8 1.32%
Geodude 7 1.16%
Houndour 7 1.16%
Poliwag 7 1.16%

 

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3 hours ago, Munya said:

4.36% movement cutoff is still currently in effect.  The following pokemon are below/above the cutoff in the respective tiers listed, this does not mean they are moving as BL/BL2 are still in effect for some of these unless voted otherwise.

 

Below the cutoff to stay in UU:

Blastoise, Vaporeon, Torterra, Luxray, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Wormadam(all forms), Mothim, Lopunny, Honchkrow, Purugly, Skuntank, Chatot, Spiritomb, Drapion, Toxicroak, Abomasnow, Rotom(Fan), Rotom(Frost), Rotom



How does this work? Why they stay in uu?
 

 

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Posted (edited)

I vote for Kabutops, Lucario, Metagross and Porygon-Z to drop to UU. Haxorus should remain BL imo tho and a discussion thread on P-Z could be opened right away.
I vote for everything below the 4.36% cut-off point in UU to drop in NU.

I vote for Arena Trap to get banned in LC.

I vote for Garchomp and Wobbuffet to get banned from OU.

Edited by gbwead

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Below the cutoff to stay in OU:

Kabutops, Metagross, Lucario, Porygon-z, Haxorus

 

Moving up to OU:

Dugtrio & Ludicolo

 

Below the cutoff to stay in UU:

Blastoise, Vaporeon, Torterra, Luxray, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Wormadam(all forms), Mothim, Lopunny, Honchkrow, Purugly, Skuntank, Chatot, Spiritomb, Drapion, Toxicroak, Abomasnow, Rotom(Fan), Rotom(Frost), Rotom

 

- Pokemon  i vote BL1/2

 

 

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5 hours ago, Munya said:

Below the cutoff to stay in OU:

Kabutops, Metagross, Lucario, Porygon-z, Haxorus

Kabutops and metagross should be fine to be moved down. Both while can be good are not big enough threats to be considered BL material.

Porygon-z: in my opinion this time it should be given the chance in UU. Strong wallbreaker, but new mons have been added that make it even easier to be revenge killed than it was back when it was BL material.

Haxorus: Im not entirely sure about haxorus, on one hand it is a pretty strong setup sweeper but on the other hand the tier has 3 viable ice shard users, even more pokemons with other forms of priority and i believe some of the usual walls can stop it too. Maybe a testing period could make things clearer

Lucario: This pokemon in my opinion sounds ridiculous. If haxorus is considered BL worthy how is lucario even gonna get discussed? Special sweeper or physical sweeper, both types with good priority moves, a base speed of 90!! (Outspeeds a big number of pokemons in the metagame) and a movepool that can deal with almost any wall of the tier. A big no on lucario from me.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Umbramol said:

Lucario: This pokemon in my opinion sounds ridiculous. If haxorus is considered BL worthy how is lucario even gonna get discussed? Special sweeper or physical sweeper, both types with good priority moves, a base speed of 90!! (Outspeeds a big number of pokemons in the metagame) and a movepool that can deal with almost any wall of the tier. A big no on lucario from me.

Lucario can't do everything at once and can't be dealt with offensively because of that. For instance, Toxicroak and Heracross both do not care about the regular special sweeper set that relies on Fighting/Dark coverage. As for counters, I personally used to play Nidoqueen a lot in OU to counter Lucario and it never disappointed me, so even though I didn't really look into it, I'm sure it can be managed.

 

Edit: I'm not saying I will never want it to get banned, but I just don't see why it shouldn't be at least tested.

Edited by gbwead

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6 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Lucario can't do everything at once and can't be dealt with offensively because of that. For instance, Toxicroak and Heracross both do not care about the regular special sweeper set that relies on Fighting/Dark coverage. As for counters, I personally used to play Nidoqueen a lot in OU to counter Lucario and it never disappointed me, so even though I didn't really look into it, I'm sure it can be managed.

 

Edit: I'm not saying I will never want it to get banned, but I just don't see why it shouldn't be at least tested.

While everything you mentioned is right, personally i would never want my main wallbreaker (heracross) to take 60% damage to deal with an offensive pokemon(that is the calculation of +2 aura sphere). Nidoqueen is indeed a good answer that can even stop volt switching, the issue i had with using it more is that either it added other weaknesses on my lineup or it made me build a certain way, my opinion stands for lucario simply because while yes it can be stopped at some circumstances, the versatility it has adds even more pressure to the person that want to defend from it. Because losing 1 pokemon in the process of guessing which set it runs can be a deciding factor on the outcome a the game.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Umbramol said:

1) Kabutops and metagross should be fine to be moved down. Both while can be good are not big enough threats to be considered BL material.

2 ) Porygon-z: in my opinion this time it should be given the chance in UU. Strong wallbreaker, but new mons have been added that make it even easier to be revenge killed than it was back when it was BL material.

3 ) Haxorus: Im not entirely sure about haxorus, on one hand it is a pretty strong setup sweeper but on the other hand the tier has 3 viable ice shard users, even more pokemons with other forms of priority and i believe some of the usual walls can stop it too. Maybe a testing period could make things clearer

4) Lucario: This pokemon in my opinion sounds ridiculous. If haxorus is considered BL worthy how is lucario even gonna get discussed? Special sweeper or physical sweeper, both types with good priority moves, a base speed of 90!! (Outspeeds a big number of pokemons in the metagame) and a movepool that can deal with almost any wall of the tier. A big no on lucario from me.

1) Although im not a fan of it, there isnt much rain in UUI and metagross is kinda slow, so I can accept that.

2) New mons dont make it easier to be revenge killed. Agility p-z is a thing. And no, all snorlax does is getting one shotted by some sets. Also no, I dont mean physical sets for the snorlax argument. Dont drop it please.

3) Haxorus 1v1 all ice shard users. And without band, ice shards doesn´t rly massively hurt this particular dragon. Im for a ban on this one.

4) Porygon-z has better wallbreaking power and same speed. Although farfetch´d p-z mixed power is probs as good as lucario, belive it or not. I think that explains it. (Only thing luca outstands against p-z is on the priority)

 

 

EDIT: To further elaborate the p-z opinion (I can´t decide on lucario) :

 

Pros:

1- Access to nasty plot literally makes it beat every single UU wall, besides Gigalith who is NU for now.

2- Access to agility allows it to outspeed the whole tier (even scarved), and has enough power to ohko most offensive mons. 

3- 85-70-75 defenses is actually a respectable bulk, and p-z is able to set up on most walls and non super effective or super strong stabbed moves on offensive enemies.

4- P-z only possess one weakness, with no common priority users as of now. Also all fighting pokes in the tier are outsped by it, ignoring items.

 

Cons:

1- 90 base speed isnt stellar, therefore it might need either tailwind support(meh) or agility to break through more offensive teams.

2- Nasty plot + Agility often lead to several 4mss, so you should only pick one of those.

 

Edited by pachima

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Posted (edited)

Drop Meta and Kabutops to UU.

BL Lucario and keep every BL in BL.

Everything that drops to NU is fine there.

Ban Arena Trap from LC

Remove Sand Veil and Tickle from Chomp and Wobb respectively

Edited by suigin

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Below the cutoff to stay in OU:

Kabutops, Metagross, Lucario, Porygon-z, Haxorus

 

Moving up to OU:

Dugtrio & Ludicolo

 

Below the cutoff to stay in UU:

Blastoise, Vaporeon, Torterra, Luxray, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Wormadam(all forms), Mothim, Lopunny, Honchkrow, Purugly, Skuntank, Chatot, Spiritomb, Drapion, Toxicroak, Abomasnow, Rotom(Fan), Rotom(Frost), Rotom

I'm not 100% convinced to let Lucario and pZ go down. But I want at least give a test.
Haxorus should remain BL.

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3 hours ago, gbwead said:

As for counters, I personally used to play Nidoqueen a lot in OU to counter Lucario and it never disappointed me, so even though I didn't really look into it, I'm sure it can be managed.

 

I just don't see why it shouldn't be at least tested.

Didn't you play something like Nidoqueen+Skarmory+Reuniclus in a TT Final and still lost to SD Lucario? @Lvkee I think you should tell him.


The fact that you are "sure it can be managed" in UU even after that happening in OU is pretty confusing to me. That thing screams BL harder than any of the other mentioned (possible) drops. Not worth a test.

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5 hours ago, gbwead said:

I vote for Kabutops, Lucario, Metagross and Porygon-Z to drop to UU. Haxorus should remain BL imo tho and a discussion thread on P-Z could be opened right away.
I vote for everything below the 4.36% cut-off point in UU to drop in NU.

I vote for Arena Trap to get banned in LC.

I vote for Garchomp and Wobbuffet to get banned from OU.

when gb is off his rocker

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Didn't you play something like Nidoqueen+Skarmory+Reuniclus in a TT Final and still lost to SD Lucario? @Lvkee I think you should tell him.

Ya, I was still tilted because of the previous match and didn't play that match up properly, but looking back SD Lucario was no threat at all; I just choked and should have calced. 

 

40 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

The fact that you are "sure it can be managed" in UU even after that happening in OU is pretty confusing to me. That thing screams BL harder than any of the other mentioned (possible) drops. Not worth a test.

You're easily confused, so don't worry too much about it. A lot of things scream BL on paper and end up being simply good, average or bad. People were crying about Zoroark and Staraptor last month and they both ended up as nothing special really. People were so terrified of Blaziken that it stayed BL2 for the longest time and now it's in untiered. We're talking about a quick ban here. Unless someone can come up with a set for Lucario that sweeps the vast majority of the with little efforts, a quick ban is just not an option for me. Lucario is versatile that doesn't mean it will necessarily be broken and that's why it should be tested.

Edited by gbwead

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You said "garchomp makes stall unviable" well in reality porygon-z will make stall in uu unviable. there is no wall that can stop a nasty plot porygonz

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2 minutes ago, drdray said:

You said "garchomp makes stall unviable" well in reality porygon-z will make stall in uu unviable. there is no wall that can stop a nasty plot porygonz

You're right. I'll be in favor of Porygon-Z getting banned if Garchomp gets banned too...

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12 minutes ago, gbwead said:

Ya, I was still tilted because of the previous match and didn't play that match up properly, but looking back SD Lucario was no threat at all; I just choked and should of calced. 

 

You're easily confused, so don't worry too much about it. A lot of things scream BL on paper and end up being simply good, average or bad. People were crying about Zoroark and Staraptor last month and they both ended up as nothing special really. People were so terrified of Blaziken that it stayed BL2 for the longest time and now it's in untiered. We're talking about a quick ban here. Unless someone can come up with a set for Lucario that sweeps the vast majority of the with little efforts, a quick ban is just not an option for me. Lucario is versatile that doesn't mean it will necessarily be broken and that's why it should be tested.

No, you didn't "just choked". You assumed one set and got destroyed by another. That's what Lucario is capable of pulling off.

 

I'm only easily confused by looking at your posts, because most of the time, you just end up contradicting yourself. I never thought Staraptor nor Blaziken were BL material, so you can't just comeback at me with something that "people" said, with people in these discussion threads being mostly noobs a majority of the time. I did however mention something about not being sure if Zoroark would be broken in NU or not, I guess it really comes down to how properly it is being used. I would guess Lucario's best set for UU could be something like SD + CC + 2 of Ice Punch / Extremespeed / Crunch, really comes down to what kind of playstyle your opponent likes. Seems pretty threatning to me and that's without mentioning the other sets it can run.

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2 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

No, you didn't "just choked". You assumed one set and got destroyed by another. That's what Lucario is capable of pulling off.

 

I'm only easily confused by looking at your posts, because most of the time, you just end up contradicting yourself. I never thought Staraptor nor Blaziken were BL material, so you can't just comeback at me with something that "people" said, with people in these discussion threads being mostly noobs a majority of the time. I did however mention something about not being sure if Zoroark would be broken in NU or not, I guess it really comes down to how properly it is being used. I would guess Lucario's best set for UU could be something like SD + CC + 2 of Ice Punch / Extremespeed / Crunch, really comes down to what kind of playstyle your opponent likes. Seems pretty threatning to me and that's without mentioning the other sets it can run.

You truly did not understand anything about that duel if that is what you think lmao.


Lmao, you're the one that spammed everywhere that you wanted to drop everything from BL/BL2 in order for everything to get tested properly, but now you want Lucario to get quick banned??? That's contradicting yourself. Me stating that Nidoqueen is good against Lucario is not contradicting myself, that's just you lacking basic cognition to understand what I said. 

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Posted (edited)

I have no time to provide calcs but I can see all UU > NU changes as fair.

I don't see why Honch will have to remain BL when we have stuff like Gigalith and Rhydon in the tier. Also should mention that other things in NU are impossible to fully wall yet were allowed to go down (hey Zoroark). 

I still don't think that Haxorus & PZ would be fair to go down to UU for the same reason as last month, including the fact that none of their checks are going down 
I would include Lucario to BL1 but as an offense player would be glad to use it so do as you wanna

Metagross is one of these pay2win mons that could have been problematic if fire wasn't already one of the most used pokemon/move type in the tier already

Edited by TohnR

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16 hours ago, Munya said:

Below the cutoff to stay in OU:

Kabutops, Metagross, Lucario, Porygon-z, Haxorus

 

Moving up to OU:

Dugtrio & Ludicolo

 

Below the cutoff to stay in UU:

Blastoise, Vaporeon, Torterra, Luxray, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Wormadam(all forms), Mothim, Lopunny, Honchkrow, Purugly, Skuntank, Chatot, Spiritomb, Drapion, Toxicroak, Abomasnow, Rotom(Fan), Rotom(Frost), Rotom

Agree with everything bar the bold.

 

The fact H.O. teams with dual screen's are popular right now,  its one more advantage for Lucario, since it can have different sets and your opponent won't have the the properly answer for both sets at the same time.

 

9 hours ago, pachima said:

Agility p-z is a thing

Yah this + download makes P-Z setup relatively easy vs walls like mandibuzz, jellycent, gastrodon relatively easy. Also specs/nasty plot sets hit like a truck and there's no realiable way to deal with it besides revenge kill (or you can run haze dusclops and name it HOPE LUL)

 

Haxorus is a issue and have a common answer (Mandibuzz), but since the SD set is problematic as it ohko mandibuzz with stone edge after rocks and mold breaker leaves bronzong hopeless

 

 

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