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April-Movement Discussion Thread


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14 minutes ago, suigin said:

Haxorus doesn't get Stone Edge

Oops, my mistake. Although the calc i made were with lum berry haxorus. The point is still valid since it still ohkoes mandibuz with Life Orb.

 

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 172-203 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

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After taking into consideration what other players said and calculating some stuff aswell i now believe that both BL mons and lucario would be unhealthy for the tier. Not only they are strong individually but they, along with alot other threats on the tier will most likely shift the meta to hyper offensive only because simply you cannot run enough walls to stop all of them. I suggest allowing only kabutops and metagross to drop.

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  • Munya unfeatured this topic

Yo en lo único que ando a favor con Gbwead es el baneo a wobbuffet, es un Pokémon que es capaz de quitarte walls con el trapper adecuado , además que en un team muy conocido(raintrapp) hizo subir a 2 Pokémon a OU (ludicolo especialmente) que de por si solo no subiría, en fin, wobbuffet lo que hace es que en una entrada vs un wall quitarte uno y ir jugando sin un wall que te frene la lluvia es algo que te va a perjudicar a la larga

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On 3/31/2020 at 3:21 PM, Dartlex said:

Yo en lo único que ando a favor con Gbwead es el baneo a wobbuffet, es un Pokémon que es capaz de quitarte walls con el trapper adecuado , además que en un team muy conocido(raintrapp) hizo subir a 2 Pokémon a OU (ludicolo especialmente) que de por si solo no subiría, en fin, wobbuffet lo que hace es que en una entrada vs un wall quitarte uno y ir jugando sin un wall que te frene la lluvia es algo que te va a perjudicar a la larga

si pero solo un poquito hermano jajaj..

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12 hours ago, MiraiZura said:

Ban honchkrow pls

Could you please elaborate, give valid arguments most hopefully backed up by some particular situations from recent matches?

Honestly after one NU tournament it's difficult to judge whether the mon is broken or not. Meta has to adapt, we would need to have more data from larger amount of tournaments. 

 

From my perspective Honchkrow is a very powerful mon with a huge movepool and beast stats, but it's stealth rock weakness and low speed are hindering it's potential. Surely top tier NU but I wouldn't say it is broken just yet, judging from my tiny experience gathered from the freshest NU tournament. 

Edited by RysPicz
I embarris.
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After watching and playing a bit of NU, I'd argue that Honchkrow is a little overpowered for the tier. I wouldn't argue that the problem is Honchkrow though, I'd argue that we are allowing a broken item in the game: Scope Lens. The primary issue with Absol was its ability to crit its way through a match and murder anything and everything, even a +6 Defense boost, and let me first say this, if your opponent let's you set up to +6, they deserve to lose. With Scope Lens + Super Luck, Honchkrow is simply the same pokemon with better typing. Scope Lens also masks Choice Items, making it extremely difficult to predict Honchkrow, whether that is a Scarf making it faster than damn near everything or a Choice Band, boosting Brave Bird to incredible power.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

While this isn't a sure fire fix (super luck will still get lucky), it will mitigate some of our problems. Fortunately, Honchkrow does suffer from 4MSS and has a tough time fitting Night Slash onto most movesets.

 

So tl;dr Ban Scope Lens.

 

 

Regarding Drapion, we simply need more UU because I guarantee it will be used there as well.

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On 4/5/2020 at 7:35 PM, DoubleJ said:

After watching and playing a bit of NU, I'd argue that Honchkrow is a little overpowered for the tier. I wouldn't argue that the problem is Honchkrow though, I'd argue that we are allowing a broken item in the game: Scope Lens. The primary issue with Absol was its ability to crit its way through a match and murder anything and everything, even a +6 Defense boost, and let me first say this, if your opponent let's you set up to +6, they deserve to lose. With Scope Lens + Super Luck, Honchkrow is simply the same pokemon with better typing. Scope Lens also masks Choice Items, making it extremely difficult to predict Honchkrow, whether that is a Scarf making it faster than damn near everything or a Choice Band, boosting Brave Bird to incredible power.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Golem: 65-77 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

While this isn't a sure fire fix (super luck will still get lucky), it will mitigate some of our problems. Fortunately, Honchkrow does suffer from 4MSS and has a tough time fitting Night Slash onto most movesets.

 

So tl;dr Ban Scope Lens.

 

 

Regarding Drapion, we simply need more UU because I guarantee it will be used there as well.

I must admit that this is quite a novel approach and I haven't thought about placing Scope Lens as a root of the issue and it does make the area of discussion larger. However, is it really broken in itself? How often do we see Scope Lens being used on mons other than Absol or Honch (I'll get to comparing them in a moment). Absol is BL2 and it isn't really often used in UU anymore. There was a scope lens focus energy Kingdra, but it also doesn't see much of use anymore, leaving Honch as the only Scope Lens "abuser" in it's respective tier.

 

When it comes to Absol and Honch, Absol has 3 huge traits over Honch: first one is access to Swords Dance, second is it's higher speed, third is it's higher base attack, additionally Absol doesn't sport Stealth Rock weakness. I believe that the dual stab Honch offers isn't putting the birb ahead of Absol due to reasons I mentioned earlier- I honestly don't think that comparing those two is right at this point.

 

While I agree that Honch does have a 4mss (pursuit/ night slash/ sucker punch/ brave birb/ superpower), Night Slash is very rarely the move which is taken away as thanks to this particular move, Honch crits every single time it hits, helping a huge lot with mons that set up.

 

My conclusion is: IF Honch is banworthy, then not because of an item it holds, but as a whole pokemon (in NU, that is) due to it's dual-stab, decent coverage and powerful STAB priority.

 

 

I'd still prefer to play and spectate a bit more NUs before making any final judgements from my side, however. We barely had 2 NU tournaments so far, let's give it time and see how meta adapts.

Edited by RysPicz
I embarris.
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