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gbwead

UU/NU/LC/Dubs Matchmaking

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Posted (edited)

Our PokeMMO population has never been as high as it is now. The capacity of the server has been increased several times and we still have to wait up in queue during the weekend before logging in. With our growing population, our competitive scene is now significantly larger and yet UU/NU matchmaking still does not work. Imo, that's a real shame because UU/NU/Dubs/LC players are ready to compete, but they are not supported properly in game and that needs to change.

 

When a tournament gets hosted, the number of players is usually decided based on the popularity of the tier. We never see a 128 players bracket for an LC or Dubs tournament, but we have seen 256 players brackets for OU in the past. However, for matchmaking, OU/UU/NU are represented equally. Within a day, there are 8 ranked matchmaking windows lasting 45 mins each for each tier. The OU competitive is insanely larger than any other competitive scene and yet our matchmaking system doesn't take that into account at all. Our OU competitive can sustain 8 ranked matchmaking windows per day, but our UU and NU competitive scenes can certainly not sustain 8 matchmaking windows. It's not realistic at all.

 

The problem here is that whenever a UU/NU matchmaking window begins and players don't find a match, they stop believing they will ever find a duel and they will stop signing up for all other matchmaking windows. UU/NU players no longer believe in our matchmaking system and that's understandable because the matchmaking system has failed to represent them properly. If I'm a UU/NU player and I want to find a duel on the ladder, I would sign up when I know other UU/NU would also sign up. Therefore, if they were less matchmaking windows per day for UU/NU, the odds of finding a match would be much higher and people will regain faith in the system.

 

For this reason, I suggest changing our matchmaking rotation. Right now, every day our rotation looks like something like this:

  1. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  2. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  3. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  4. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  5. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  6. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  7. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  8. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)

 

Imo, we should have a more representative rotation like:

  1. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  2. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  3. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  4. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  5. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  6. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  7. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  8. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)

 

This mean we would go from 8 ranked matchmaking windows for UU/NU to 4 ranked matchmaking windows for UU/NU/Dubs/LC. Imo, each competitive scene would be represented more appropriately and that should lead to greater odds of finding a match.

Edited by gbwead

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Posted (edited)

Tournaments have increased of many players. Many new competitive players have come and also, the OU matchmaking is played a lot. We can train in other tiers only in tournaments. With thoses new players we can easily fill at least UU and NU matchmakings. For me, add thoses matchmakings will make other tiers easy to access.

 

Edited by Morty

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1 hour ago, gbwead said:

Our PokeMMO population has never been as high as it is now. The capacity of the server has been increased several times and we still have to wait up in queue during the weekend before logging in. With our growing population, our competitive scene is now significantly larger and yet UU/NU matchmaking still does not work. Imo, that's a real shame because UU/NU/Dubs/LC players are ready to compete, but they are not supported properly in game and that needs to change.

 

When a tournament gets hosted, the number of players is usually decided based on the popularity of the tier. We never see a 128 players bracket for an LC or Dubs tournament, but we have seen 256 players brackets for OU in the past. However, for matchmaking, OU/UU/NU are represented equally. Within a day, there are 8 ranked matchmaking windows lasting 45 mins each for each tier. The OU competitive is insanely larger than any other competitive scene and yet our matchmaking system doesn't take that into account at all. Our OU competitive can sustain 8 ranked matchmaking windows per day, but our UU and NU competitive scenes can certainly not sustain 8 matchmaking windows. It's not realistic at all.

 

The problem here is that whenever a UU/NU matchmaking window begins and players don't find a match, they stop believing they will ever find a duel and they will stop signing up for all other matchmaking windows. UU/NU players no longer believe in our matchmaking system and that's understandable because the matchmaking system has failed to represent them properly. If I'm a UU/NU player and I want to find a duel on the ladder, I would sign up when I know other UU/NU would also sign up. Therefore, if they were less matchmaking windows per day for UU/NU, the odds of finding a match would be much higher and people will regain faith in the system.

 

For this reason, I suggest changing our matchmaking rotation. Right now, every day our rotation looks like something like this:

  1. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  2. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  3. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  4. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  5. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  6. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  7. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  8. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)

 

Imo, we should have a more representative rotation like:

  1. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  2. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  3. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  4. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  5. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  6. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  7. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  8. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)

 

This mean we would go from 8 ranked matchmaking windows for UU/NU to 4 ranked matchmaking windows for UU/NU/Dubs/LC. Imo, each competitive scene would be represented more appropriately and that should lead to greater odds of finding a match.

Gbwead making a suggestion for dubs. Something amazing is happening here. Completely agree with your suggestion, let's wait the devs to tell us "soon tm" like all the time.

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7 hours ago, gbwead said:

Our PokeMMO population has never been as high as it is now. The capacity of the server has been increased several times and we still have to wait up in queue during the weekend before logging in. With our growing population, our competitive scene is now significantly larger and yet UU/NU matchmaking still does not work. Imo, that's a real shame because UU/NU/Dubs/LC players are ready to compete, but they are not supported properly in game and that needs to change.

 

When a tournament gets hosted, the number of players is usually decided based on the popularity of the tier. We never see a 128 players bracket for an LC or Dubs tournament, but we have seen 256 players brackets for OU in the past. However, for matchmaking, OU/UU/NU are represented equally. Within a day, there are 8 ranked matchmaking windows lasting 45 mins each for each tier. The OU competitive is insanely larger than any other competitive scene and yet our matchmaking system doesn't take that into account at all. Our OU competitive can sustain 8 ranked matchmaking windows per day, but our UU and NU competitive scenes can certainly not sustain 8 matchmaking windows. It's not realistic at all.

 

The problem here is that whenever a UU/NU matchmaking window begins and players don't find a match, they stop believing they will ever find a duel and they will stop signing up for all other matchmaking windows. UU/NU players no longer believe in our matchmaking system and that's understandable because the matchmaking system has failed to represent them properly. If I'm a UU/NU player and I want to find a duel on the ladder, I would sign up when I know other UU/NU would also sign up. Therefore, if they were less matchmaking windows per day for UU/NU, the odds of finding a match would be much higher and people will regain faith in the system.

 

For this reason, I suggest changing our matchmaking rotation. Right now, every day our rotation looks like something like this:

  1. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  2. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  3. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  4. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  5. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  6. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  7. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  8. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)

 

Imo, we should have a more representative rotation like:

  1. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  2. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  3. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  4. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  5. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  6. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  7. OU (45 mins) --> UU (45 mins) --> NU (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)
  8. OU (45 mins) --> Dubs (45 mins) --> LC (45 mins) --> Nothing (45 mins)

 

This mean we would go from 8 ranked matchmaking windows for UU/NU to 4 ranked matchmaking windows for UU/NU/Dubs/LC. Imo, each competitive scene would be represented more appropriately and that should lead to greater odds of finding a match.

Great suggestion from @gbwead ! Let's do this, this would increase the competitive scene ! 

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Posted (edited)

Great idea, but it also doesn't give us the fix to the main problem:

 

9 hours ago, gbwead said:

The problem here is that whenever a UU/NU matchmaking window begins and players don't find a match, they stop believing they will ever find a duel and they will stop signing up for all other matchmaking windows.

It probably would work in the first days (the same way UU/NU ladder worked on the launch) but then turn forgotten when people don't find one or two matches in a row.

 

Battle boxes used to be one big thing to make ladder more flexible. The fact you dont need stay with your comps and feel free to do other things while in queue is very nice, but it still need some fixes and more features, like more functions (like increased battle boxes, or  remember the item held by the mon, and auto attach on it whenever it is selected by the battle box and the item is available on inventory.)

Other ladders also need some propper announce, better rewards in normal games (maybe).

 

Maybe weekly and monthly rewards would increase people's interest aswell

 

 

Edited by Risadex

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2 minutes ago, Risadex said:

It probably would work in the first days (the same way UU/NU ladder worked on the launch) but then turn forgotten when people don't find one or two matches in a row.

Players show up for big UU/NU tournaments all the time. These tournaments do not get canceled because players know others will sign up as well. The competitive scene really comes together for these events because they know exactly when to compete. Right now, UU/NU players don't have an exact time for matchmaking, they have 8 different times. That's just too much for such a small pool of players.

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1 hour ago, Risadex said:

 

Maybe weekly and monthly rewards would increase people's interest aswell

 

 

I think they should host again those leaderboard tournaments that were used to be made before. Gbwead's idea plus those tours coming back will make ppl play uu/nu ladder imo(would be even better if dubs and lc were added to that list) 

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Your intention is great, but I don't think your suggestion hit the point. Some friends have told me that they couldn't match oppos in UU/NU though there were more than 4 guys signing up. I think make UU/NU much easier to match oppos may be a good start. For example, 4 players signing up can just start the matching system.

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I'm not against this at all. The frequency of tournaments just isnt enough for tiers that arent OU. So it's basically hard to practice in actual tournament scenarios. 

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9 hours ago, Risadex said:

Maybe weekly and monthly rewards would increase people's interest aswell

Say it louder for the people at the back

 

In order to boost interest in the lower tiers I think they should also incorporate a rotating prize system, not dissimilar to WoW’s dungeon queue system which incentivises players to play the less popular roles.

 

Something like an extra 5k BP for every 10 ranked games you play in UU, and then the following week it changes to NU. The prizes could also include untradeable consumables or battle items. I think there’s a lot to be explored here

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i think the best way to make people play UU/NU matchmaking is to bait them, for exemple a monthly reward for the top 10 in the ladder, or like CC , pokemon from the tier as a gift to the top 1 in the ladder and the rest will get some bp, then you will see people trying hard,  the bait is the best way to bring people.

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I agree with you. There are much more players who play OU compare to other tiers. I think we should come up with an idea that make players start to realize "Oh, there are other tiers in this game!" I think give extra reward may be an idea that worth to try. Like others said, We can give the one who is on the list some pride bi-weekly. 

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On 7/3/2020 at 12:09, gbwead said:

Nuestra población de PokeMMO nunca ha sido tan alta como ahora. La capacidad del servidor se ha incrementado varias veces y todavía tenemos que esperar en la cola durante el fin de semana antes de iniciar sesión. Con nuestra creciente población, nuestra escena competitiva ahora es significativamente mayor y, sin embargo, el emparejamiento UU / NU todavía no funciona. Imo, es una verdadera lástima porque los jugadores de UU / NU / Dubs / LC están listos para competir, pero no son compatibles adecuadamente en el juego y eso debe cambiar.

 

Cuando se organiza un torneo, la cantidad de jugadores generalmente se decide en función de la popularidad del nivel. Nunca vemos un grupo de 128 jugadores para un torneo LC o Dubs, pero hemos visto grupos de 256 jugadores para OU en el pasado. Sin embargo, para el emparejamiento, OU / UU / NU se representan por igual. En un día, hay 8 ventanas de emparejamiento clasificadas que duran 45 minutos cada una para cada nivel. El OU competitivo es increíblemente más grande que cualquier otra escena competitiva y, sin embargo, nuestro sistema de emparejamiento no tiene eso en cuenta en absoluto. Nuestro OU competitivo puede sostener 8 ventanas de emparejamiento clasificadas por día, pero nuestras escenas competitivas UU y NU ciertamente no pueden sostener 8 ventanas de emparejamiento. No es realista en absoluto.

 

El problema aquí es que cada vez que comienza una ventana de emparejamiento UU / NU y los jugadores no encuentran una coincidencia, dejan de creer que alguna vez encontrarán un duelo y dejarán de inscribirse en todas las demás ventanas de emparejamiento. Los jugadores de UU / NU ya no creen en nuestro sistema de emparejamiento y eso es comprensible porque el sistema de emparejamiento no ha podido representarlos correctamente. Si soy un jugador de UU / NU y quiero encontrar un duelo en la escalera, me registraría cuando sé que otros UU / NU también se registrarían. Por lo tanto, si fueran menos ventanas de emparejamiento por día para UU / NU, las probabilidades de encontrar una coincidencia serían mucho mayores y las personas recuperarían la fe en el sistema.

 

Por esta razón, sugiero cambiar nuestra rotación de emparejamiento. En este momento, todos los días nuestra rotación se ve así:

  1. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  2. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  3. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  4. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  5. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  6. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  7. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  8. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)

 

Imo, deberíamos tener una rotación más representativa como:

  1. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  2. OU (45 minutos) -> Dubs (45 minutos) -> LC (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  3. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  4. OU (45 minutos) -> Dubs (45 minutos) -> LC (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  5. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  6. OU (45 minutos) -> Dubs (45 minutos) -> LC (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  7. OU (45 minutos) -> UU (45 minutos) -> NU (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)
  8. OU (45 minutos) -> Dubs (45 minutos) -> LC (45 minutos) -> Nada (45 minutos)

 

Esto significa que pasaríamos de 8 ventanas de emparejamiento clasificadas para UU / NU a 4 ventanas de emparejamiento clasificadas para UU / NU / Dubs / LC. Imo, cada escena competitiva estaría representada de manera más apropiada y eso debería conducir a mayores probabilidades de encontrar una coincidencia.

Excellent suggestion, absolutely agree!

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On 3/7/2020 at 10:00 PM, gbwead said:

Players show up for big UU/NU tournaments all the time. These tournaments do not get canceled because players know others will sign up as well. The competitive scene really comes together for these events because they know exactly when to compete. Right now, UU/NU players don't have an exact time for matchmaking, they have 8 different times. That's just too much for such a small pool of players.

Yeah, but it doesn't work neither its the main purpose of laddering. People mostly practice with friends and/or teammates because they know they know how to play/ have some experience and can multi battle with different teams.

 

I think reducing uu/nu ranked timee can be good, but isn't enough by Itself.

 

People are lazy (that's because only splitting the schedule won't work) and since ladder is also a form of generating resources, there's a plethora of stuff do be added as rewards which can be healthy to the game. (At least while those ladders don't increase in popularity)

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Suggest lower/take off the bp reward in random match, lower the number of minimum player while waiting, so that even 1 to 1 we can start the match in random match

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Posted (edited)

i agree with gbwead as an uu player also supporting other tiers like lc/dubs and nu is very important like many other ppl said already

 

*edit* dont forget to upvote

Edited by BlizzardGG

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