[LC Discussion] Arena Trap

[RLotus]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

We have very low usage to work with, but considering that in the last 6 months, the only time Clamperl went below 20% was during the test ban, I think it's clear that Clamperl without Diglett is just not that good, not bad, but certainly not as problematic

Well considering clamperl recovered to 26% usage before diglet was freed, i don’t think this is the story the usage is telling at all and moreso the story you want to tell.

[gbwead]

12 minutes ago, RLotus said:

Well considering clamperl recovered to 26% usage before diglet was freed, i don’t think this is the story the usage is telling at all and moreso the story you want to tell.

It's a 3 months test ban. I'm looking at everything, not just the last month and even if I only looked at the last month 26% is still less than 30%. Believe what you want, but everything still points out to Clamperl being less viable/used when Diglett isn't around.

Edited March 3, 2020 by gbwead

[PoseidonWrath]

ban arenatrap in every tier or dont ban it at all (or just run shed shell jajaja)

[pachima]

I am with Lotus. First month usages are far less relevant than subsequent months because tier has not adapted yet. What (most likely happened) was diglett was banned, people assumed clamperl wouldn´t be as good, they stopped using it, they realized they were wrong, they restarted using it again.

 

What I am saying is that diglett, while it affects clamperl, has not that much impact with that mon, and therefore, we should stray away of that topic and focus on the real debate here which is Arena Trap instead of pushing the conversation towards a ban of a pokémon you may/may not like.

 

My input on the OP is pretty simple. Trapping abilities (besides magnet pull, cause much narrower range) are uncompetitive in the sense it removes a lot of control the enemy has, if not all. Therefore, in my opinion, it should be banned. However, since the issue comes from the ability itself rather the mons that possess it ( further proved by the fact Diglett and trapinch are 2 completely different mons, except by typing) if you are to ban it, then you would have to ban it everywhere.

Edited March 3, 2020 by pachima

[gbwead]

3 hours ago, pachima said:

My input on the OP is pretty simple. Trapping abilities (besides magnet pull, cause much narrower range) are uncompetitive in the sense it removes a lot of control the enemy has, if not all. Therefore, in my opinion, it should be banned. However, since the issue comes from the ability itself rather the mons that possess it ( further proved by the fact Diglett and trapinch are 2 completely different mons, except by typing) if you are to ban it, then you would have to ban it everywhere.

LC doesn't depend on other tiers. If something is a problem in LC, it needs to be addressed in LC independently. If trapping abilities need be banned everywhere, then a case need to be made in each tier. That's what is happening here. Arena Trap needs to be banned in LC. The fact that Arena Trap might need to be banned somewhere else is quite irrelevant. However, banning Arena Trap in LC, the tier where Arena Trap is the most used, sets a precedent for Arena Trap to be banned everywhere. If Arena Trap doesn't get banned in LC, there is no way you will be able to convince anyone that it needs to be ban in other tiers as well. 

 

edit:

3 hours ago, pachima said:

I am with Lotus. First month usages are far less relevant than subsequent months because tier has not adapted yet. What (most likely happened) was diglett was banned, people assumed clamperl wouldn´t be as good, they stopped using it, they realized they were wrong, they restarted using it again.

I just checked. During the first month of the test ban, 418 teams were recorded. During the second month of the test ban, 558 teams were recorded. During the third month of the test ban, 394 teams were recorded. The last month where Clamperl rose in usage to 26% is the least reliable month compared to other months where Clamperl was at 22% and 18%.

 

As for that people "realizing they were wrong" in the last month of test ban, that is simply not true. What happened in that last month was the return of old LC players that entered LC tournaments with their old Clamperl teams that ended up not working out without Diglett for the most part.

Edited March 3, 2020 by gbwead

[DaftCoolio]

16 hours ago, gbwead said:

I just checked. During the first month of the test ban, 418 teams were recorded. During the second month of the test ban, 558 teams were recorded. During the third month of the test ban, 394 teams were recorded. The last month where Clamperl rose in usage to 26% is the least reliable month compared to other months where Clamperl was at 22% and 18%.

 

As for that people "realizing they were wrong" in the last month of test ban, that is simply not true. What happened in that last month was the return of old LC players that entered LC tournaments with their old Clamperl teams that ended up not working out without Diglett for the most part.

 

 

come on man. you know the latter months of a suspect test are more reliable. sure the sample size is slightly smaller but 558 teams is small anyway

 

That last sentence is pretty paper thin even if you look past the fact it is purely just your opinion. 

 

 

On 3/3/2020 at 1:33 PM, gbwead said:

We have very low usage to work with, but considering that in the last 6 months, the only time Clamperl went below 20% was during the test ban, I think it's clear that Clamperl without Diglett is just not that good, not bad, but certainly not as problematic. 

 

Usage has nothing to do with whether a pokemon fits the uber offensive criteria. Even under the unhealthy criteria it has less to do with the usage of the unthealthy pokemon, clamperl, and more to do with the usage of everything else. 

 

ps are there actually usage stats for the past 6 months somewhere?

[YettoDie]

37 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

ps are there actually usage stats for the past 6 months somewhere?

The monthly movement discussions have the usage stats in them, it's one month at the time though.

[gbwead]

5 hours ago, DaftCoolio said:

Usage has nothing to do with whether a pokemon fits the uber offensive criteria. Even under the unhealthy criteria it has less to do with the usage of the unthealthy pokemon, clamperl, and more to do with the usage of everything else. 

 

ps are there actually usage stats for the past 6 months somewhere?

I mean feel free to watch LC duels from September to November and you'll be able to see yourself that Clamperl is not doing really good. 

[LifeStyleNORE]

47 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I mean feel free to watch LC duels from September to November and you'll be able to see yourself that Clamperl is not doing really good. 

Assuming devs didn't break replays again with the Sinnoh update

[gbwead]

6 minutes ago, LifeStyleNORE said:

Assuming devs didn't break replays again with the Sinnoh update

They didn't.

[Stelian]

It's time to ban diglett. 

[Ahpool]

It seems that the trap team has benefited a lot since misdreavus was sent to ban, because misdreavus made some LCPM unable to play

Because of its levitate and fast speed. As a result, many LCPM are suppressed by him.

In my opinion, it can be ban trap, but the consequences can be imagined that the utilization rate of magnemete will definitely increase significantly, but this does not affect the game environment, because the operation space for players is larger, and it is not like the method of mienfoo +trap + clamperl to limit the opponent's operation and win.

A lot of players are very upset.mienfoo+ Trap + clamperl gives players a very small operation space, which is also conducive to the operation of many new LC players. It just needs an LCPM to lure + trap, which causes it to get stuck on the court and can't be replaced + then memento brings clamperl on the court and uses shell smash for 1ko anything

@gbwead

[mxdzzz]

Is it arena trap banned now? I have seen some ppl still use diglett, so only those with sand veil are able to join LC tournament?

[Munya]

Yes

[mxdzzz]

3 hours ago, Munya said:

Yes

Ohhh, thanks.XD