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Hatching Twins


Michelle

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Just now, Michelle said:

The answer to what? The suggestion is the mechanic itself, it can be adjusted for any concerning rates.

Yes, but we shouldn't have a chance to hatch twins because so many people do breeding and they could sell one baby while using the other to breed their projects. On a selfish note, I would love the feature because it would provide cheap breeds on the Global Trade Link. However, on the ethical side, this suggestion only hurts the breeding community who breeds for profit and it negates the very reason why we have a 2 for 1 breeding system.

 

PokeMMO is quite a big place so the likelihood of a lot of people breeding twins are quite high even if the probability of that happening is very low.

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4 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

Yes, but we shouldn't have a chance to hatch twins because so many people do breeding and they could sell one baby while using the other to breed their projects. On a selfish note, I would love the feature because it would provide cheap breeds on the Global Trade Link. However, on the ethical side, this suggestion only hurts the breeding community who breeds for profit and it negates the very reason why we have a 2 for 1 breeding system.

 

PokeMMO is quite a big place so the likelihood of a lot of people breeding twins are quite high even if the probability of that happening is very low.

All I see here was a rewarding RNG feature for avid breeders. In the vain similar to a shiny, only it gives you that unexpected new option. I feel that PokeMMO's market is almost deflated at the moment to be totally honest, not a lot of incentive to sell good breeds, ect. This would also give people buying Pokemon more to browse.

Edited by Michelle
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1 minute ago, Michelle said:

All I see here was a rewarding RNG feature for avid breeders. Iin the vain similar to a shiny, only it gives you that unexpected new option. I feel that PokeMMO's market is almost deflated at the moment to be totally honest, not a lot of incentive to sell good breeds, ect. This would also give people buying Pokemon more to play with.

I understand the fact that you're coming at this from a compassionate position. However, we need to look at the bigger picture. PokeMMO has approximately +1 million players that enjoy this game (I heard about a stream that received about a million views). Out of PokeMMO's overall population, you may have about 500,000 players have this twin breeding aspect occur. Now, let's put yourself in the shoes of the breeder that worked hard just to breed something with 3x31 IVs and you just happen to get a twin breed and price it on GTL cheaper than it costs to make it yourself. Repeat this about 5 or 20 times and you have a breeder inflation problem on your hands.

 

So let's do some simple math here:

 

(for simplicity sake, we are going to round the player population to 1 million for simplicity)

 

(and also for simplicity, we are going to adopt the current shiny rate 1/30k to our equation)

 

1 million x (1/30k) = 

 

28b67d41bfc99a5d32d0d23909807d40.png

 

1,000,000 x 0.00003333333 = 33.3333333333

 

ba11e61002953adacdc978516b89c5a6.png

 

So about +~33.33% more breeders in the market which would not make for a healthy economy.

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2 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

I understand the fact that you're coming at this from a compassionate position. However, we need to look at the bigger picture. PokeMMO has approximately +1 million players that enjoy this game (I heard about a stream that received about a million views). Out of PokeMMO's overall population, you may have about 500,000 players have this twin breeding aspect occur. Now, let's put yourself in the shoes of the breeder that worked hard just to breed something with 3x31 IVs and you just happen to get a twin breed and price it on GTL cheaper than it costs to make it yourself. Repeat this about 5 or 20 times and you have a breeder inflation problem on your hands.

 

So let's do some simple math here:

 

(for simplicity sake, we are going to round the player population to 1 million for simplicity)

 

(and also for simplicity, we are going to adopt the current shiny rate 1/30k to our equation)

 

1 million x (1/30k) = 

 

28b67d41bfc99a5d32d0d23909807d40.png

 

1,000,000 x 0.00003333333 = 33.3333333333

 

ba11e61002953adacdc978516b89c5a6.png

 

So about +~33.33% more breeders in the market which would not make for a healthy economy.

wtf is this math?

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17 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

I understand the fact that you're coming at this from a compassionate position. However, we need to look at the bigger picture. PokeMMO has approximately +1 million players that enjoy this game (I heard about a stream that received about a million views). Out of PokeMMO's overall population, you may have about 500,000 players have this twin breeding aspect occur. Now, let's put yourself in the shoes of the breeder that worked hard just to breed something with 3x31 IVs and you just happen to get a twin breed and price it on GTL cheaper than it costs to make it yourself. Repeat this about 5 or 20 times and you have a breeder inflation problem on your hands.

 

So let's do some simple math here:

 

(for simplicity sake, we are going to round the player population to 1 million for simplicity)

 

(and also for simplicity, we are going to adopt the current shiny rate 1/30k to our equation)

 

1 million x (1/30k) = 

 

28b67d41bfc99a5d32d0d23909807d40.png

 

1,000,000 x 0.00003333333 = 33.3333333333

 

ba11e61002953adacdc978516b89c5a6.png

 

So about +~33.33% more breeders in the market which would not make for a healthy economy.

What on Earth are you talking about?

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Imagine finding a random number between 0 and 100 in a random calc and saying this is now a percentage guys. Politicians always lie is a universal truth, even MMO mayors feel the need smh

 

Also tbh the suggestion would be healthy if the rate is under 1/10k (doesn't have to be rarer than shiny otherwise it will generate frustration for shiny egg hunters that will find it but not the shiny they were looking for). About the maths, since you need at most 32 breeds for a 5x31 natured, the probability of it happening during the process would be 0.003195, so about 0.3% and obviously most of it would be just breeders being duplicated, not finished comps ^^

 

Otherwise the question is do we really NEED this ? Like most of the suggestions which are made on this forum, the answer is no and so it will most likely never be implemented 

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Twins as a concept are problematic as Pokemon must take up party slots; there is no way to hatch an egg while it is not in your party, should twins hatch when you have 5 pikachus and 1 egg what happens to the twin? We cannot assume the default "Just send it to the PC" as a PC can be full, in which case there is nowhere valid for the egg to spawn.

If this is common enough where it matters then it is just extra free things for people, when competitive pokemon are already reasonably priced, which means that's not a good enough concept to warrant its implementation.

If this is rare enough where it doesn't matter then its so rare that its probably not worth taking the time to code and implement into the game, on top of the fact that players will definitely think that this is a bug or something if they're unaware of a super rare occurrence that isn't mechanically relevant to anyone.

I do not think this suggestion will ever see implementation as any version which is harmless enough to the game to even consider being added would just end up being so mechanically unnecessary that it'd be infinitely low priority to code and add over other features to the game that give tangible benefits.

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3 hours ago, Bestfriends said:

I understand the fact that you're coming at this from a compassionate position. However, we need to look at the bigger picture. PokeMMO has approximately +1 million players that enjoy this game (I heard about a stream that received about a million views). Out of PokeMMO's overall population, you may have about 500,000 players have this twin breeding aspect occur. Now, let's put yourself in the shoes of the breeder that worked hard just to breed something with 3x31 IVs and you just happen to get a twin breed and price it on GTL cheaper than it costs to make it yourself. Repeat this about 5 or 20 times and you have a breeder inflation problem on your hands.

 

So let's do some simple math here:

 

(for simplicity sake, we are going to round the player population to 1 million for simplicity)

 

(and also for simplicity, we are going to adopt the current shiny rate 1/30k to our equation)

 

1 million x (1/30k) = 

 

28b67d41bfc99a5d32d0d23909807d40.png

 

1,000,000 x 0.00003333333 = 33.3333333333

 

ba11e61002953adacdc978516b89c5a6.png

 

So about +~33.33% more breeders in the market which would not make for a healthy economy.

First of all, this is garbage math. Next, it would not kill the economy if the rate was super low, it would just be so random and make things interesting. If you're concerned about it ruining the breeding market, then the devs can implement something with the everstone so that whenever one of the parents holds an everstone, the chance of twins being produced decreases. I think this would be a neat feature of the game, and tbh there is so much RNG in the game that you can't say "oh its RNG; its unfair" because when people complain about other things RNG based we get the classic "deal with it, its part of the game" answer.

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6 minutes ago, Matoka said:

Twins as a concept are problematic as Pokemon must take up party slots; there is no way to hatch an egg while it is not in your party, should twins hatch when you have 5 pikachus and 1 egg what happens to the twin? We cannot assume the default "Just send it to the PC" as a PC can be full, in which case there is nowhere valid for the egg to spawn.

If this is common enough where it matters then it is just extra free things for people, when competitive pokemon are already reasonably priced, which means that's not a good enough concept to warrant its implementation.

If this is rare enough where it doesn't matter then its so rare that its probably not worth taking the time to code and implement into the game, on top of the fact that players will definitely think that this is a bug or something if they're unaware of a super rare occurrence that isn't mechanically relevant to anyone.

I do not think this suggestion will ever see implementation as any version which is harmless enough to the game to even consider being added would just end up being so mechanically unnecessary that it'd be infinitely low priority to code and add over other features to the game that give tangible benefits.

Sorry for the double post but this is such a BS response. Just make the old man give 2 eggs lol. If your party is full, make him tell you that you need to free up space...

I don't understand why free RNG stuff is bad? It's a normal flow of economy. You know some people find stuff randomly in real life that is valuable...

 

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2 minutes ago, eredita said:

Sorry for the double post but this is such a BS response. Just make the old man give 2 eggs lol. If your party is full, make him tell you that you need to free up space...

I don't understand why free RNG stuff is bad? It's a normal flow of economy. You know some people find stuff randomly in real life that is valuable...

 

Anything that is "free" but lacks purpose is a potential risk to game balance, this is undoubtedly a novelty feature "for fun", it has not been proposed with any perceived issues that it is being viewed as a solution towards, you are correct that we could have the old man require two party slots, but now the old man requires additional dialogue options and party checks etc.
My point was moreso that such features that do "odd" things can require more work than expected, and that unexpected problems can arise.

Also, you can edit posts on these forums (which would allow you to avoid double posting in future).

Features rarely ever get added that are novelty additions to the game, they usually require a purpose or are quality of life changes that affect something that is largely agreed upon to be a problem, though that's not to say they never happen and again I was just sharing my opinions. I am not saying this will never be added to the game, just that I do not expect it to be added to the game personally.

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There is no risk to game balance when a feature such as this can be tweaked to any degree, as is being stated. So far even the people arguing against can't help but admit it would be a fun addition. At it's core this is supposed to be a fun addition, and reward those who breed regularly. Welcome to the suggestion.

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39 minutes ago, Michelle said:

There is no risk to game balance when a feature such as this can be tweaked to any degree, as is being stated. So far even the people arguing against can't help but admit it would be a fun addition. At it's core this is supposed to be a fun addition, and reward those who breed regularly. Welcome to the suggestion.

I think the main point your missing is, it doesnt offer enough for the work you put into implementing it, as you said apart from that it would be a nice gimmick. Still dont expect it to be implented, as there are more important updates this game is waiting for

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Having the rare chance to completely double a breed doesn't offer enough?

Possible extra shiny chance from one breed(huge considering price differences with good stats), an extra breed to sell for additional money/trade for another pokemon, the market receiving breeders that were otherwise too useful to sell, the possibility of egg group transfers to help with their next breed.

This is just off the top stuff, now I'm not going to pretend I know how these ideas stack up against the development process, but these are some pretty big changes where the player is concerned. 

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2 hours ago, Michelle said:

There is no risk to game balance when a feature such as this can be tweaked to any degree

Right now there is a definitive 2:1 exchange per breed, something we implemented specifically to counteract inflation and help balance the concept of breeding. (refinement for cost)

Any movement in a direction that is "More than 2 for 1 exchange" is a risk of sorts, to the point where the question becomes "Is it worth creating such a gimmick at all, given how it defeats the purpose of the way we've adapted the mechanic in the first place?"

 

Nothing wrong the idea of giving small RNG bonuses here and there under certain circumstances, this just [probably] isn't the right one.

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1 minute ago, Darkshade said:

Right now there is a definitive 2:1 exchange per breed, something we implemented specifically to counteract inflation and help balance the concept of breeding. (refinement for cost)

Any movement in a direction that is "More than 2 for 1 exchange" is a risk of sorts, to the point where the question becomes "Is it worth creating such a gimmick at all, given how it defeats the purpose of the way we've adapted the mechanic in the first place?"

 

Nothing wrong the idea of giving small RNG bonuses here and there under certain circumstances, this just [probably] isn't the right one.

Not to go off course, but PokeMMO already does that in the form of certain drop items after wild pokemon battles even without the Pickup ability activated. So players already get small RNG bonuses in the form of certain adventure items.

 

I recall that you made a strong case as to the reasoning for the 2 for 1 system when it was first introduced years ago.

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So in-order to function without inflating, the rarity may not even be worth the time, that's totally fair. I can get behind this, I was just excited by the possibilities however minimal and rare.. Hatching a double shiny would be the new hardest thing to achieve, letting breeders dream a bit bigger in the current system without pushing the market. (e.g. 2:1.0001~) Perhaps there are better ideas out there, like cloning.

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