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E4 Difficulty Select


Laharyl

Question

I've been playing PokeMMO since 2012, I never posted on the forums and I mostly do comp pvp matches. I recently decided to create a new Comp team, so I went to farm the elite 4 like I did back in the day.  
Currently on 80+ Kanto E4 and the pokemon are different every time. I just got wiped by a rain dance team. It's immensely challenging, and I'm working on a Comp Team, I don't want to have to create a brand new team just for beating the elite 4. 

A difficulty select would allow players to grind the elite four at previous difficulties (I beat it at level 70+ no problem). For lesser rewards.

As it stands I can't complete it, so the content was effectively removed from the game for me. Unless I want to spend hundreds of thousands of pokedollars on a team centered around defeating the elite four. Even the guide which suggests a baton pass team considers it's self outdated, which leads people to believe the difficulty has increased since and thus even that is no longer viable. 

I understand wanting to create a challenge for hardcore players, but I can pop FR/LG into my GBA right now and farm pokedollars on the elite four. You can have a Hardcore E4 option available without removing the vanilla experience. 

Edited by Laharyl
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If people were worried about the economy you wouldn't be able to straight up buy pokedollars by buying RP and selling it on the GTL. I don't see how what I suggested could hurt the economy any more than that would. But I hope they don't see it that way

 

Spoiler

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Edited by Laharyl
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3 minutes ago, Laharyl said:

If people were worried about the economy you wouldn't be able to straight up buy pokedollars by buying RP and selling it on the GTL. I don't see how what I suggested could hurt the economy any more than that would. But I hope they don't see it that way

 

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image.png.03785cf78f79b593fe8de9bc786219b9.png

 

Fair point.

But regarding E4, I think it’d be easier just to wait till dungeons, then we can get access to legendaries to even the playing field, like Kyogre or Latios.

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17 minutes ago, Laharyl said:

If people were worried about the economy you wouldn't be able to straight up buy pokedollars by buying RP and selling it on the GTL

This is called trading. You buy RP and trade the items for in-game cash that is already in the game. No new money is being generated, rather old money moving between players.

NPCs such as gym leaders and E4 generate new money every time they are defeated. 

 

I don't see how this is relevant to your suggestion but you can't compare the two in terms of economic effect. One is trading while the other is generating money.

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Inb4 mod or staff goes “hurr durr economy hurr durr”

 

(but in all seriousness, I agree with you)

This is called a straw man argument. I feel that politicians are part to blame for saying things like, "I will put a chicken in every pot." People believe that the economy is just a mental barrier that needs to be broken. If the Elite Four is too easy, then they would be inflating in game money like crazy.

 

3 hours ago, Laharyl said:

I've been playing PokeMMO since 2012, I never posted on the forums and I mostly do comp pvp matches. I recently decided to create a new Comp team, so I went to farm the elite 4 like I did back in the day.  
Currently on 80+ Kanto E4 and the pokemon are different every time. I just got wiped by a rain dance team. It's immensely challenging, and I'm working on a Comp Team, I don't want to have to create a brand new team just for beating the elite 4. 

If you play a lot of the other MMOs, then you would notice a slight difficulty curve for certain activities in game. If you do not want to fight the elite four, then you can always go to the Trade Corner and start up a Breeding, EV Training, or a Levelling service. The team for providing a service is pretty easy to make, in fact back in 2014, I made a team and opened up an EV Training Service back in the day.

 

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In summary, to borrow a phrase from @ImFunk, "no new money is generated, rather money is moving between players." Going after a money generator is a lot harder than going after established players who are either middle class or rich. The middle class on PokeMMO is a pretty big market, but the very rich players on PokeMMO are quite a small market. I know of one guy who started up a Breeding Service that went after the middle class and is now retired living the life of an in game millionaire (if he wanted to, he could even purchase resources to take on the Elite Four).

 

Spoiler

It sounds like from the suggestion, that you need a person to turn you in the right direction for an in game career. I would like to be that person that can change your in game life. Perhaps in the future, you could re-battle the Elite Four, but save that for another time.

 

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26 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

If the Elite Four is too easy, then they would be inflating in game money like crazy.

Not exactly.

There’s a factor that both E4 and Gyms possess(more so the Gyms) that maintain their value. Not the difficulty, but rather the cooldown time.

Because no matter how long or short of a time it takes for someone to beat them, the cooldown time stays the same.

Main example, Person A could sweep Gym rematches with, say, Kyogre, and Person B could stall/use 5+ Max Revives/Potions and take longer.
Either ways, after they beat the Gym, they still both have to wait 18 hours to battle the Gym again. And there’s no item or Pokemon that can speed up this process.

E4 is the exact same way.


So the point I’m trying to make is that the E4 doesn’t have to be on impossible mode all the time to have value. It all lies on cooldown time.

If people were suggesting a method to shorten cooldown times, I’d agree that there would be problems, but the fact of the matter is that they’re not.

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1 minute ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Not exactly.

There’s a factor that both E4 and Gyms possess(more so the Gyms) that maintain their value. Not the difficulty, but rather the cooldown time.

Because no matter how long or short of a time it takes for someone to beat them, the cooldown time stays the same.

Main example, Person A could sweep Gym rematches with, say, Kyogre, and Person B could stall/use 5+ Max Revives/Potions and take longer.
Either ways, after they beat the Gym, they still both have to wait 18 hours to battle the Gym again. And there’s no item or Pokemon that can speed up this process.

E4 is the exact same way.


So the point I’m trying to make is that the E4 doesn’t have to be on impossible mode all the time to have value. It all lies on cooldown time.

If people were suggesting a method to shorten cooldown times, I’d agree that there would be problems, but the fact of the matter is that they’re not.

The difficulty curve also has an impact on how you earn that money. If the Elite Four was too easy, then people would wait out the cooldown time to give it another go. There has to be some resistance to the path for immediate destruction and lunch money taking. Hypothetically, you're in the 3rd Grade and you are the big strong bully. Bob is the weak nerd that has his lunch money taken every single day. In real life, this is a sad reality that children all over the world have to live with (I lived with it in school from time to time, but you learn how to shake them off), but in PokeMMO, that is your NPC. Little to no resistance and swiping that lunch money away like clockwork. Gym Runs and Elite Four runs should provide an increased difficulty curve since you're dealing with professional gym owners and elite trainers that should know the ins and outs of battling. The Gym Leaders are like the majority of the children in your 3rd grade class, they know some ti quan do and they put up a fight for you the bully. Lastly, the Elite Four are like the jocks in your 3rd grade class, they are strong.

 

I can wait down a cooldown time, but I cannot wait up a Gym Leader nor Elite Four member's difficulty. The NPCs have a cooldown time, but they provide no resistance as I mentioned earlier. From our previous discussions, I get this general impression of you, "we have the absolute right to sweep gyms and elite four with our lovely overpowered legendaries and difficulty can go pound sand. Cooldowns are the solution, the end!" I hope that I am wrong on this assessment of your stance for this issue.

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There are plenty of methods for earning money, and fighting the E4 is one of the most time consuming, least rewarding ones available. 

I recommend you focus on making a PvE team for gym runs before making your PvP team. You'll be able to make around 250k per run, which may not sound like a lot but given how quick it is, it's a great way to make money. I would also recommend farming everstones. There isn't much of an investment needed like gym runs so this is great if you're low on money, usually makes me around 100k an hour.  

 

If money isn't your issue I don't see why you would be farming the elite 4 to begin with. There are much faster ways to earn experience or as I mentioned money, so don't see the point of adding different difficulties to an already lackluster feature with little to offer. 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

There has to be some resistance to the path for immediate destruction.

That’s what the premise of every kind of these games are.

You’re supposed to start out with the resistance and eventually build up to where resistance is obsolete, whether it be obtaining legendaries to help you out or other strong Pokemon. Then have little to no resistance at all following the acquisition of such creatures.

What’s supposed to happen is there is a difficulty threshold that’s supposed to be passed and once passed through obtaining proper matchups makes it much easier in subsequent rematches, not one that always increases to the point of impossiblity(E4). That’s just poor game design.

While to a degree, I do agree that zero resistance can make it too easy and boring. But too much resistance, which is what E4 especially is(and the Gyms with the Unova update), causes players to get discouraged and quit.

Edited by BoltBlades12
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2 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

That’s what the premise of every kind of these games are.

You’re supposed to start out with the resistance and eventually build up to where resistance is obsolete, whether it be obtaining legendaries to help you out or other strong Pokemon. Then have little to no resistance at all following the acquisition of such creatures.

What’s supposed to happen is there is a difficulty threshold that’s supposed to be passed and once passed through obtaining proper matchups makes it much easier in subsequent rematches, not one that always increases to the point of impossiblity(E4). That’s just poor game design.

This principle does apply to Gym Leaders though (kind of.... There is still some level of difficulty involved). The Elite Four is suppose to be near impossible to defeat or they wouldn't be elite. @Risadex has some videos that he published about defeating each Elite Four member, however, he did have to use some medicine after each trainer, but that is the difficulty curve in motion. Money Generators have to have a certain level of difficulty, but In Game Services marketed to players have such a low barrier to entry (I entered there back in 2014). Let's apply this to real life:

 

Occupation:

 

1. McDonald's Employee: He/she does work hard at the front desk to generate an income from working at the cashier's desk. Thus, the cashier is generating money from the McDonald's franchisee.

 

2. Doctor: He/she saves people's lives or gives people more energy. Their salaries could vary between different specialities.

 

3. Contractor: He/she opens up a service that is needed and markets himself/herself to either extending a room or adjusting the current house. They gain an income from money that is old money that is trading hands.

 

4. Bank Manager: He/she opens up a Bank that offers loans and uses capital to make money on investments.

 

Now lets discuss how these occupations compare to one another.

 

1. McDonald's Employee: This would be equivalent to battling an few NPCs on PokeMMO. There is a low barrier to entry, so almost anyone can get a job at McDonald's. As an employee there, you are trained how to push certain buttons and exit the McDonald's with a paycheck. On PokeMMO, the same principle applies in regard to NPCs except the process is a little more immediate.

 

2. Doctor: This profession would be equivalent to battling Gym Leaders or Elite Four members. Gym Leaders pay a decent salary, but the Elite Four has a lot of stress and planning. A Gym Runner is similar to a Dentist, General Doctor, Cardiologist, Dermatologist, etc. They have a careful procedure to not ruin their operation. A lot of doctors don't do surgery (it is a myth that doctors do this), this is reserved for the Surgeons. The Surgeons are for the Elite Four which require a ton of planning. One wrong move and not only is the operation ruined, but they could risk permanent medical problems for the patient or worse an early death. The Elite Four Runner has to be careful about his/her supply of Full Restores, Max Potions, and Revives.

 

3. Contractor: This occupation would fit in well with the people who start up a service. Yes, people can Breed, EV Train, and Level themselves, but they are too busy or lazy to do it. You are the unsung hero that comes in and saves the day with Breeding, EV Training, and Levelling. They are paid quite a bit of in game cash while doing something which is quite simple to do. As with any Contractor, you can ask them to paint the house even though you could do that yourself. There was a guy that I knew that started up a breeding service a year ago and is now a retired in game millionaire.

 

4. Bank Manager: This is your everyday Shiny Trader or in game Mortgage Broker. Shiny Traders know how to yield a big profit off of their investments while Mortgage Brokers know how to make a profit off of people need to borrow in game cash while being paid their loan back with interest.

 

In summary, go into something with a low level to entry first before going into something with a high level to entry. We shouldn't lower the Doctor's requirements nor should we lower the Elite Four's or Gym Leader's barrier to entry. Think of it like a staircase, you start at the bottom floor and walk up to the top. Honestly, I am not at the top of the staircase when it comes down to income. It is hard to go up these steps, but if you choose not to go up the staircase all the way, then go up to the level where you can buy resources to start up a service and watch your salary grow over time from all the requests you accomplish.

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Close this topic I guess. People are clearly have way too much time in their hands are are too emotionally involved in the subject. Personally I don't think it requires a college thesis.

Opinions are kind of irrelevant. 
Making the vanilla Elite 4 available for Pokedollar (make it 10,000-20,000 pokedollar, 0bp, and keep the CD, It's better than nothing, Just let us have the content back) farming didn't break the game in 2012 and won't break the game now. 

Anyone who thinks othewise  -to the point where they're willing to ad-lib paragraphs in their spare time on the subject, is silly and shouldn't be taken seriously. 

Edited by Laharyl
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