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Reverse Candy (-1 Level Rare Candy)


MatheusEdu7B

Question

The suggestion is simple, a candy literally with the effect opposite of the rare candy, that consumable will remove -1 level from the pokemon that eats it.

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I have seen cases where the player evolves the poke in another region but because of the level differences in each region, you can no longer use it to continue the story mode because the level has just passed the limit available at that time forcing the player to evolve a pokemon all over again. Or simply maybe trainers want to leave their pokemon at a specific level (Level 50 mabye :v) or even remove a pokemon level to make it evolve (a charmander lv 100 can't evolve for example)

I know this would open a gap for a pokemon to relearn a certain move again, but it would be extremely disadvantageous to take too many levels out of a pokemon just to relearn an attack, since rare candys are in a high price range, these reverse candys would be the same rarity like normal rare candy.
 

Edited by MatheusEdu7B
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On 11/26/2019 at 1:20 AM, MatheusEdu7B said:

I have seen cases where the player evolves the poke in another region but because of the level differences in each region, you can no longer use it to continue the story mode because the level has just passed the limit available at that time forcing the player to evolve a pokemon all over again.

That specific case is easily avoided by being mindful of your goal in using fully open regions to power level. In most cases it's simple ignorance of the fact that the level cap changes based on the region since not all players use the forums. There are other ways this could be communicated to players, perhaps through dialog if the player goes back to the region they are stuck on with over levelled Pokemon or when they go to leave for a fully open region.

 

On 11/26/2019 at 1:20 AM, MatheusEdu7B said:

I know this would open a gap for a pokemon to relearn a certain move again, but it would be extremely disadvantageous to take too many levels out of a pokemon just to relearn an attack, since rare candys are in a high price range, these reverse candys would be the same rarity like normal rare candy.

Unless you make it remove any level up moves that were learned, there wouldn't be a gap, there would simply be a Pokemon running around with a moveset it shouldn't yet have. This would also have to affect access to relearnable moves at the move relearners. There is also the issue with level based evolution. Some higher evolved forms have access to moves lower forms can't learn via level up. Unless you remove those moves and reset the flags you have Pokemon running around with moves they shouldn't know yet. Not to mention that Tournament Mode battles are scaled back to level 50 as is. This really isn't needed for any real reason at all.

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On 11/30/2019 at 4:02 PM, XelaKebert said:

That specific case is easily avoided by being mindful of your goal in using fully open regions to power level. In most cases it's simple ignorance of the fact that the level cap changes based on the region since not all players use the forums. There are other ways this could be communicated to players, perhaps through dialog if the player goes back to the region they are stuck on with over levelled Pokemon or when they go to leave for a fully open region.

That's not ignorance talk the level cap on the every region is different. New players can make a mistake about it since kanto, hoenn, unova, and in the future sinnoh, will have different level cap for every gym. It is not so rare to occur these cases, it's more common what you think, and this information is not shown in the game. Only on an older post on the forum.

 

Spoiler

 

  • EXP gain now uses a modified Gen 3 formula with custom values per-species
  • Disobedience is now classified per-region
    • (Badge Count: 0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/Post-E4)
    • Kanto: 20/26/34/38/46/48/50/52/62/100
    • Hoenn: 20/24/28/32/34/38/44/48/60/100
    • Unova: 20/24/28/30/34/38/42/46/56/100

 

Quote

Unless you make it remove any level up moves that were learned, there wouldn't be a gap, there would simply be a Pokemon running around with a moveset it shouldn't yet have. This would also have to affect access to relearnable moves at the move relearners. There is also the issue with level based evolution. Some higher evolved forms have access to moves lower forms can't learn via level up. Unless you remove those moves and reset the flags you have Pokemon running around with moves they shouldn't know yet.

This is completely avoided if it is inserted it into the game correctly and at a price equal or higher than a rare candy. No one would use these candys to relearn moves as it is totally more easier to use heart stone or big mushroom, I don't imagine that anyone would spend a lot of money reducing the level just to learn a move, it is cheaper and more practical to learn moves from tutors.

A example: I have an "Lv.52 Eevee" and i need to put "Double-Edge" on him, the level he learns it is "Lv.37". I will need "16x Reverse candys" to reduce the level of my pokemon to 36 and level up again to 37 to re-learn that move. Let's price "20k" for each candy in gtl as an example. No one will spend "320k" only for learn a move again.
 

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Not to mention that Tournament Mode battles are scaled back to level 50 as is. This really isn't needed for any real reason at all.

I only talked about it because... mabye there are people who really care about the actual pokemon level just for aesthetics, so I commented on reducing a pokemon's level to level 50 with the candy.

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On 12/1/2019 at 3:46 PM, MatheusEdu7B said:

That's not ignorance talk the level cap on the every region is different. New players can make a mistake about it since kanto, hoenn, unova, and in the future sinnoh, will have different level cap for every gym. It is not so rare to occur these cases, it's more common what you think, and this information is not shown in the game. Only on an older post on the forum.

Yes it is shown in game if you open your Trainer Card. I'm well aware of the old update post. However, a new item itself does not negate a need to explain the level caps better. In all actuality, if something were added to inform you of a change in level caps between regions like, "You are about to go to a region where your level cap is higher than your current region, please note that any Pokemon you bring back from this region over your current level cap will be unusable," would go much further and be easier to work with than adding a brand new item.

 

On 12/1/2019 at 3:46 PM, MatheusEdu7B said:

This is completely avoided if it is inserted it into the game correctly and at a price equal or higher than a rare candy. No one would use these candys to relearn moves as it is totally more easier to use heart stone or big mushroom, I don't imagine that anyone would spend a lot of money reducing the level just to learn a move, it is cheaper and more practical to learn moves from tutors.

A example: I have an "Lv.52 Eevee" and i need to put "Double-Edge" on him, the level he learns it is "Lv.37". I will need "16x Reverse candys" to reduce the level of my pokemon to 36 and level up again to 37 to re-learn that move. Let's price "20k" for each candy in gtl as an example. No one will spend "320k" only for learn a move again.

Or you can use Mushrooms and Heart Scales with the Move Relearners to get Double Edge on Eevee as they work with learning moves missed during level up. This is very much a non-issue.

 

On 12/1/2019 at 3:46 PM, MatheusEdu7B said:

I only talked about it because... mabye there are people who really care about the actual pokemon level just for aesthetics, so I commented on reducing a pokemon's level to level 50 with the candy.

Practicality > Aesthetics. It makes zero sense to cater to a literal edge case in this regard. People who want their Pokemon to stay at level 50 are very much in the minority now as there isn't any need to keep competitive Pokemon at level 50. Back in the days before automated tournaments and flat battles something like this may have been practical, but with the current mechanics available it's simply not practical at all.

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

Or you can use Mushrooms and Heart Scales with the Move Relearners to get Double Edge on Eevee as they work with learning moves missed during level up. This is very much a non-issue.

That's what i'm talking about, it's so much easier to do that way. Relearning a move by reducing and evolving the level again would be bizarre and not practical at all.

 

1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

Yes it is shown in game if you open your Trainer Card. I'm well aware of the old update post. However, a new item itself does not negate a need to explain the level caps better. In all actuality, if something were added to inform you of a change in level caps between regions like, "You are about to go to a region where your level cap is higher than your current region, please note that any Pokemon you bring back from this region over your current level cap will be unusable," would go much further and be easier to work with than adding a brand new item.

That's one thing I really agree with, I myself had no idea that this was shown on the trainer card for example. The only place I saw was a message from the gym leader himself and the forum, This would give a good suggestion to the forum, you could write about it sometime :3

But that doesn't answer the fact that if you went to another region to train a pokemon to facilitate the run and end up training that pokemon too much, it will be an absolute waste of time, and make the person retrain another pokemon just to continue this run, this warning would only be given when you try to go to another region if you enter, not in the middle of a level training for example, it might be interesting for the player to have the option to lock the pokemon training, preventing him from gaining exp and evs, but I think I'm exaggerating.
 

1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

Practicality > Aesthetics. It makes zero sense to cater to a literal edge case in this regard. People who want their Pokemon to stay at level 50 are very much in the minority now as there isn't any need to keep competitive Pokemon at level 50. Back in the days before automated tournaments and flat battles something like this may have been practical, but with the current mechanics available it's simply not practical at all.

I literally talked about it only for an example, not because it's a necessary thing, now tell me how I could evolve a pokemon already at level 100... Exactly, there is no way in the game that you could evolve this, the pokemon will be stuck in their form and will not evolve anymore, I would like to quote another suggestion here in this post that I found very interesting specifically for that situation.
 

 

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

This would be better for LC. As you’d be able to delevel Pokémon to lvl 5 if you accidentally level over during EV training 

Wait... what?! Well...only for aesthetic mabye... but we have ammesia brace for an easier way to do this... (I don't know much about it)

Edited by MatheusEdu7B
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13 hours ago, MatheusEdu7B said:

we have ammesia brace for an easier way to do this... (I don't know much about it)

Trust me, nothing is easy about Amnesia Brace. It doesn't transfer EVs like Exp. Share and you will have to make the untrained pokemon be in battle first, and then switch to the horde killer which might die itself first cause of the 5 turns of the horde pokemons, and even if it survives, still extremely time consuming. And due to this bs way of it transfering EVs, you cannot train more than one LC pokemon at a time if relying on Amnesia Brace.

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20 hours ago, MatheusEdu7B said:

But that doesn't answer the fact that if you went to another region to train a pokemon to facilitate the run and end up training that pokemon too much, it will be an absolute waste of time, and make the person retrain another pokemon just to continue this run, this warning would only be given when you try to go to another region if you enter, not in the middle of a level training for example, it might be interesting for the player to have the option to lock the pokemon training, preventing him from gaining exp and evs, but I think I'm exaggerating.

A simple warning dialog can explain a lot more and gets more mileage than adding new mechanics to address this issue. The warning would be given any time you attempt to go to a region with a level cap higher than your cap region. There really isn't a need to add a new mechanic to fix an issue with an existing mechanic when the existing mechanic could simply be explained better. Extra items and mechanics add extra complexity which raises barrier of entry for newer players to understand the game. The gameplay should be challenging, but understanding the mechanics shouldn't be equally difficult.

 

20 hours ago, MatheusEdu7B said:

I literally talked about it only for an example, not because it's a necessary thing, now tell me how I could evolve a pokemon already at level 100... Exactly, there is no way in the game that you could evolve this, the pokemon will be stuck in their form and will not evolve anymore, I would like to quote another suggestion here in this post that I found very interesting specifically for that situation.

That suggestion states that it was a recent addition to the series to allow Rare Candies to evolve level 100s. If that is the case, it would make sense to allow that functionality here. Even if not, that is something that still makes sense.

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5 hours ago, Akshit said:

Trust me, nothing is easy about Amnesia Brace. It doesn't transfer EVs like Exp. Share and you will have to make the untrained pokemon be in battle first, and then switch to the horde killer which might die itself first cause of the 5 turns of the horde pokemons, and even if it survives, still extremely time consuming. And due to this bs way of it transfering EVs, you cannot train more than one LC pokemon at a time if relying on Amnesia Brace.

When is my EV trainer back? :> Last time I logged like 2 or 3 weeks ago had like 40 ut's gathering dust xD

 

I guess amnesia brace could prove useful if you want to keep a comp at lvl 50, and exp share on other lower lvls to get exp+EVs tho, which is actually a viable use I guess?

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1 hour ago, razimove said:

When is my EV trainer back? :> Last time I logged like 2 or 3 weeks ago had like 40 ut's gathering dust xD

 

I guess amnesia brace could prove useful if you want to keep a comp at lvl 50, and exp share on other lower lvls to get exp+EVs tho, which is actually a viable use I guess?

I'm back in business, atleast for a week or so.

 

And yeah it can prove useful in such situations, but a comp usually gets all its EVs before reaching lv. 50 so such a situation would happen very rarely. The use of multiple Exp. Share is very common though. I personally use multiple Exp. Share method to train LCs over Amnesia Brace if the client doesn't have an OCD for lv. 5. Saves time and sanity.

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3 hours ago, FighterChamp said:

I don't think that its a good idea. There will be no profit by it . If you want to relearn any move then just spent 10k to 30k on tm shop and otherwise relearn the move by tutor.

 

That's not what this suggestion was made for, I just gave the comment to relearn a move as an unfavorable situation compared to relearning a move.

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