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Cocojojo

Idea : Legendary Pokemons

Question

I'm sorry if my english isn't well. I'm french but i trying to write my idea in english ^^

Can you add the legendary pokemons please ?That's very usefull for the quest after have end the game. I know that destroy the gameplay to fight other players. So can you add an option when we suggest a battle to allow or not allow the legendary pokemons ? I really want to use some pokemons, and I can't. I play only in the Black&White for the moment. In this version, there is only Victini that we can have before the end of the game. Moreover, not allowed the exchanges with the legendary pokemons. That's broken too.

Thank's to read my idea, and i'm again sorry for my english.

Have a nice day !

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5 hours ago, Morty said:

It's not the first time that a guy wants to see legendaries in PokeMMO. But after ? What will the legendaries do in PokeMMO ?

PvP-wise, they’ll take over OU. Potentially creating an Ubers tier to play in.

PvE-wise, nothing really important. Might make Gym/E4 rematches easier, but that’s no big deal

Edited by BoltBlades12

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3 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

PvP-wise, they’ll take over OU. Potentially creating an Ubers tier to play in.

PvE-wise, nothing really important

Good afternoon Mr. Bolt, I hope you're doing well. As @suigin mentioned, please be patient. Certain legendaries are planned to be released in the form of Dungeon Quests. PokeMMO has a fragile competitive scene and we cannot risk having certain legendaries dominate battles. The Tier List Council knows quite a bit about the current meta, so let's wait for what their verdict is before we start implementing certain legendaries.

 

Let's go through your arguments for having no limitations for legendary implementation:

 

"PvP-wise, they'll take over OU. Potentially creating an Ubers tier to play in."

 

The meta is quite fragile, so certain legendaries can't be implemented due to the amount of impact that it could have in battles. As for having a playable Ubers tier, let's delegate this to pokemon that are powerful, but are not qualified to be considered legendaries. Legendaries should only be implemented if they can be checked rather easily.

 

"PvE wise, nothing really important."

 

I can name a couple of ways that PvE can be shaken up due to the implementation of certain legendaries. Gym Leaders and the Elite Four are likely to be a cakewalk for certain legendaries which can garner a lot of PokeYen with little to no obstruction. Amulet Coin runs would be a lot easier and for anyone that does not have a legendary in their team, then they are forced to catch a legendary or two in order to survive the massive uptick in difficulty to compensate for legendaries running around.

 

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Mr. Bolt, I see from the past posts you made about this topic, that you are quite passionate about the implementation of legendaries. I am going to give you a lesson from my real life that may help you, "don't let emotion take over reasoning when it comes down to the important decisions." I feel that you have such an emotional attachment to legendaries to the point where you are not looking at things like "what could happen if Kyogre is implemented?" You mentioned Kyogre some time ago, but here is why Kyogre is dangerous:

 

a) It is a Wailord on steroids, so its Water Spouts are mass murder for Gym Leaders and the Elite Four Members.

 

b) With its Drizzle and Thunder combo, it can threaten a lot of water types. I know of a few water types like Starmie that can learn Thunder or Thunderbolt, but it does not rise to the level of being an ultra threatening combo. Starmie is what we would call a "reasonable threat."

 

c) Its movepool is quite large, so there is a bit of flexability that Kyogre would have over any normal pokemon and it has the stats to back it up.

 

I can write about a page of reasons for not implementing Kyogre on PokeMMO or implementing it in the style of Mewtwo or Raquaza. Throughout the years, I learn that compromise is best in certain scenarios, "maybe Kyogre is a bit too powerful, but maybe Articuno is a good start."

 

Spoiler

I am not trying to make you look bad. When I look on forums, I bump into quite a bit of comments about your pitch for legendaries to be implemented here on PokeMMO. I am sure that the development team would like to implement certain legendaries, but they have to think of the ramifications of how it might affect the metagame or how it may affect the environment around us. I would argue less on the emotional appeal and more on the reason appeal.

 

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2 hours ago, Bestfriends said:

I can name a couple of ways that PvE can be shaken up due to the implementation of certain legendaries. Gym Leaders and the Elite Four are likely to be a cakewalk for certain legendaries which can garner a lot of PokeYen with little to no obstruction. Amulet Coin runs would be a lot easier and for anyone that does not have a legendary in their team, then they are forced to catch a legendary or two in order to survive the massive uptick in difficulty to compensate for legendaries running around.

I’ve seen the point of Gym/E4 rematch difficulty appear on many people’s counter-argument(s) to my claims, and I will admit: I would normally agree on this. But regarding E4 and especially Gym rematches;

 

While yes, Gyms/E4 rematches would take less time to beat and be much easier, the difficulty and time aren’t the factors that TRULY give it its value. The factor that does give it its value is the cooldown time.


So difficulty isn’t that big of a deal. A game is meant to only be tedious the first time you play it and have it get progressively easier as you acquire new Pokemon and learn new ways to employ such Pokemon in battle. In short, it’s not supposed to be hard ALL the time, like the devs here are trying to make it.

 

Even if you beat each gym in 3 turns with Drizzle + Water Spout Kyogre for the popular example(even then, there’s plenty of non-legendary strats that can do so just as fast if not faster), that in no way affects the cooldown time, aka the real time hours you have to wait for rematches. There’s NOTHING in PokeMMO that can speed up real time

So normal Trainers will still take 6 hours for cooldowns, Gyms/Morimoto will still take 18 hours, and so on...

 

Also, you could argue that the current PvE with the Gym/E4 rematches forces people to breed 5x31 or 6x31 Pokémon(natured, EV trained, lvl 100 etc) for compensation.

(since there’s absolutely no way you can beat those rematches with the 6x15 gift pokemon you get from the 3 storyline(s))

That is more of an issue than having 1-2 legendaries on your team for such runs.

 

Heck, even if there were to be rematches or battles updated with the NPCs having Uber-legends, that’s not something that’s out of the ordinary. My two points of evidence regarding that statement can be found in B2/W2 and Ultra Sun/Moon:

1) In B2/W2, there was an in-game activity called the “World Tournament”, which allowed you to battle Gym leaders/E4 members/Champions from games past and present. One of the modes gave some of the G-Leaders/E4-members/Champions Uber legendaries to use.

- Falkner got Lugia, Sabrina got Mewtwo, Winona got Rayquaza, and Fantina got Origin Form Giratina, and so on.

(In fact, Fantina had an illegal Pokémon in Origin Form Giratina because it was holding the Ghost Gem instead of the Griseous Orb that allows it to become Origin Form.

2) After you beat the Champion in Ultra Sun/Moon, you do a little post story quest involving Team Rainbow Rocket. Their Commanders being the Team Bosses from the previous games, each having their respective game’s legendary. 

-Maxie had Groudon, Archie had Kyogre, Cyrus had Dialga/Palkia, Ghetsis had Zekrom/Reshiram, Lysandre had Xerneas/Yveltal, and even Giovanni had a Mewtwo that he could Mega Evolve into Mega Mewtwo X/Y.


So even if we got Uber legends and devs had to give certain NPCs Uber legends to compensate for difficulty purposes, it would make sense. Since even in the vanilla games, it has happened before(and could just as much happen again).

 

If the future consisted of ways to speed up the cooldown clock or skip it entirely, then, yes, there’d be issues, but that’s besides the point.

(also I heavily doubt there will be such methods)

 

So my point being, not just that we should be allowed full access to ALL legendaries and not just a select few, but also, having an Uber legendary doesn’t necessarily mean you have a “press this button to win every battle” Pokemon. Because even with Uber legends, they have just as many weaknesses as strengths, and a good chunk of them come from Pokémon that aren’t legendaries.

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16 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

PvP-wise, they’ll take over OU. Potentially creating an Ubers tier to play in.

PvE-wise, nothing really important. Might make Gym/E4 rematches easier, but that’s no big deal

Ubers tier with legendaries is not important imo

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Hmm, can't they just ban legends in any form of competitive play and get over with? Some people likes to have legends for the looks (Zekrom it's awesome and i always have it in my team).

 

Or just make a tier of competitive of ONLY legends, other pokemon won't be allowed.

 

idk i'm just saying don't mind me xD

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2 hours ago, Morty said:

Ubers tier with legendaries is not important imo

That's fair but given the current pvp is stale and boring as it is, another tier would widen the playing field and really make things more interesting.

Sure, Ubers may turn out to be just as predictable as every other tier, but at least it'll be another tier for people to play with. Because I bet a 1/30k SRIF Shiny that there are other people who would be happy to have an Ubers tier, so that way they can use ANY Pokemon and thus potentially create sneaky strats that'll easily take down the "unbeatable" Uber legends. Other people would play the Ubers tier should one be made available, and that's what matters.

(At least imo, it's really funny to watch some noob with a team of Uber legends get wrecked by very funny strats, if you watch The Garbodors on Youtube, you'll know exactly what I"m talking about)

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I'm not really sure why the focus on legendaries not being widely available is on, well, the stuff you guys are rambling about above. I would think anyone who has ever played an MMO before would understand the reasoning behind the lack of implementation - legendaries are this game's form of "ultra rare weapons/armor" and they clearly have long term game designs in mind for how to implement them. Simply making them just as catchable as any other pokemon, just as breedable, just as splashable, totally deflates their overall significance in an MMO context. 

 

So yeah, as a competitive player (well, former competitive player [well, former attempted competitive player]) I'd love to have the legendaries to add very necessary depth to the metagame. However, again, it's pretty obvious why we don't have them. Devs cant exactly allow us access to legendaries and then later put them behind a wall like legendary dungeons - that wouldn't be fair to those who came later and didn't have access to them originally. So they are forced to sit in limbo while other, more lucrative things occupy the devs attention. 

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11 hours ago, Gunthug said:

I'm not really sure why the focus on legendaries not being widely available is on, well, the stuff you guys are rambling about above. I would think anyone who has ever played an MMO before would understand the reasoning behind the lack of implementation - legendaries are this game's form of "ultra rare weapons/armor" and they clearly have long term game designs in mind for how to implement them. Simply making them just as catchable as any other pokemon, just as breedable, just as splashable, totally deflates their overall significance in an MMO context. 

 

So yeah, as a competitive player (well, former competitive player [well, former attempted competitive player]) I'd love to have the legendaries to add very necessary depth to the metagame. However, again, it's pretty obvious why we don't have them. Devs cant exactly allow us access to legendaries and then later put them behind a wall like legendary dungeons - that wouldn't be fair to those who came later and didn't have access to them originally. So they are forced to sit in limbo while other, more lucrative things occupy the devs attention. 

Why are you reasoning with a broken record tho

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TBH, atleast according to me, PokeMMO's current implementation of Mewtwo and Rayquaza is the most apt method for leggies here. There shouldn't be just many copies of the same legendary running around. Being only one makes them legendary. It's just really a fun concept imo what the devs have done here.

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1 hour ago, Aldroc said:

TBH, atleast according to me, PokeMMO's current implementation of Mewtwo and Rayquaza is the most apt method for leggies here. There shouldn't be just many copies of the same legendary running around. Being only one makes them legendary. It's just really a fun concept imo what the devs have done here.

There's over 52 legendaries in existence, so the term "legendary" doesn't have nearly as much significance or importance as it did back when it was just the 3 birds, Mewtwo, and Mew. So the whole special concept regarding that has been nullifed.

So having lots of people running around with legendaries isn't that bad.

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

There's over 52 legendaries in existence, so the term "legendary" doesn't have nearly as much significance or importance as it did back when it was just the 3 birds, Mewtwo, and Mew. So the whole special concept regarding that has been nullifed.

So having lots of people running around with legendaries isn't that bad.

But again, viewing this game as an MMO instead of just multiple people playing a single player game, what ELSE would you consider to be the equivalent of "rare/ultra rare weapons/armor?" Legendaries, no matter how many of them there are, are the only things that potentially fill that void. It's not whether its "bad" or not if people have them. It's that the devs want to eventually make this game a true MMO with MMO-like endgame content, and legendaries represent the ideal reward for those goals. Not saying this is good or a desirable path, only that it's VERY CLEARLY what the devs are doing and any confusion about this is, well, confusing

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On 11/11/2019 at 4:18 PM, BoltBlades12 said:

That's fair but given the current pvp is stale and boring as it is, another tier would widen the playing field and really make things more interesting.

Sure, Ubers may turn out to be just as predictable as every other tier, but at least it'll be another tier for people to play with. Because I bet a 1/30k SRIF Shiny that there are other people who would be happy to have an Ubers tier, so that way they can use ANY Pokemon and thus potentially create sneaky strats that'll easily take down the "unbeatable" Uber legends. Other people would play the Ubers tier should one be made available, and that's what matters.

(At least imo, it's really funny to watch some noob with a team of Uber legends get wrecked by very funny strats, if you watch The Garbodors on Youtube, you'll know exactly what I"m talking about)

The reason why Ubers are even a thing is that there are Pokemon that are so miles above everything else that the metagame only revolves around those specific Pokemon and anything beyond them has no reasonable chance to succeed when the players know what they're doing. If you think that Ubers as a metagame is less stale, then even by definition you are wrong because the purpose of OU tier in response to Ubers is to not have a stale metagame due to overly powered creatures. If you think there's a problem with OU metagame you're so much more better off by voicing your opinion about specific problem in OU rather than asking a completely new metagame and a dozen or so new Pokemon (when everyone knows they're being kept away for a reason).

 

Also omegalol @ using The Garbadors noobstomping as an example, nah we actually tier based on assuming that players can play.

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